Help me plan my cruise North!

T37Chef said:

Ok ok...so maybe scaling back a bit this time would be prudent. M.V. is out unless I choose to keep the boat up there and come back in early August to sail it home with some knuckleheads.

I think I said it already, I am often overly ambitious and probably selfish wanting to go straight, even to B.I. Its important that the family has fun and enjoy the trip or they wont want to ever go again. So we'll do the coast keeping about in aboout 60 feet or so and with in a few hours of the shore. I have to remind myself this is my wife and kids first trip in the ocean. None of us have ever been seasick before, but they have never been ocean sailing so who knows right.

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Well, that sounds like a better approach, but why not wait until you near Cape May to make that first big choice? Who knows, you may luck out, and have an ideal window for a straight shot to Block? You could start out favoring the coast, and see how your family is handling the conditions, but by the time you're approaching AC, if everyone is doing fine, just angle off towards Montauk...

Try not to forget you're doing this cruise aboard a SAILBOAT, after all Never ceases to amaze me, how many cruising sailors appear to lose sight of that simple fact... Try not to think too much in terms of an Itinerary for the trip, but rather simply going when and where the wind blows you, and taking maximum advantage of the conditions, and trying to sail as much as possible... Don't know how old your girls are, but chances are that will be more fun and interesting for them, and the best opportunity for them to get involved in sailing the boat, and learn stuff... In my experience, long stints under power on a sailboat usually results in the crew retiring down below, to play with some electronic 'device', or a series of prolonged 'naps'...

The big conundrum for your intended destination in mid-summer, is that a decent sailing breeze often doesn't come up until the afternoon... But with so many people obsessed with arriving in so many of those crowded harbors early enough in the day to score a mooring or slip, the result is often spending most if not all of the day motoring to the next destination. A certain amount of that is unavoidable if you really want to go places in a limited time, but try to avoid getting into that pattern if you can. Instead of thinking in terms of getting places early enough in the day to do some 'exploring' ashore, consider instead the reverse approach of doing so in the mornings, instead... In many popular tourist spots like Mystic, or Newport, doing so can be far more pleasant anyway, walking around town before the hordes of tourists and daytrippers arrive. Then, depart for your next destination at a time closer to when the seabreeze generally kicks in. You have a big advantage with your shoal draft, in that in the event of arriving late in the day many harbors, you might still be able to find plenty of room to anchor around to more shallow perimeters, which I rate as one of the biggest advantages of shoal draft for southern New England...

T37Chef said:

I have done everything to the boat I can think of to prepare short of new sails. My biggest worry is the age of the sails. I have three head sails, (furling genoa, converted jib, and storm sail) the main has three reefs, never used the third. The spinnaker is going to stay home, pole is broken anyway

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Any chance you can find or borrow another pole? Given the amount of lighter airs you're likely to encounter on this trip, flying a chute could afford some of the most fun you could have underway...

JonEisberg said:

Any chance you can find or borrow another pole? Given the amount of lighter airs you're likely to encounter on this trip, flying a chute could afford some of the most fun you could have underway...

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Well you could always use a bit of bamboo?!?!?!?!

sorry could not help it.

Sounds like a great trip and I think you are smart to scale back a bit. It seems so close when you look at it on a map/chart, but once actually doing it it can take longer than you think. Our society is so go go speed happy it is sometimes hard to judge distances when it is only a short flight or a quick 75 MPH drive. If it were me I would push to make it to your friend's restaurant and then see what happens on the way back. Often the best trips are ones without real plans, and weather can mess with plans. Kids can get quite upset when they don't get to do the "one thing" they wanted. And saying next time to a kid, and heck even a lot of adults, is the same as saying never. And ensuring the family has a good time makes it more likely they will want to do it again. If every one has fun before you know it the wife will start with, well if we cut back every week we can take a few years off and go to the islands.....

You never know!

xort said:

Originally Posted by JonEisberg

I'd leave the jerry cans behind, if I were you...

Very little good comes of carrying diesel fuel on deck, especially on a trip where it's not necessary to do so...

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Very little good? Like being able to refuel and keep going rather than sit out in the ocean waiting and waiting for wind?

We've done a half dozen coastal hops and had no wind most of the time. Carrying extra fuel on deck was very nice to have to keep going.

Now, long range offshore trips might be a different situation. But we're talking near shore runs.

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Well, as fallard has already noted, he would have well more than a sufficient amount of fuel on board to make the 200 or so miles from Cape May, so the need to carry additional fuel on deck is lost on me...

I've long been perplexed re the amount of additional fuel many sailors feel compelled to carry for running up and down the East coast, or ICW... Seems like sort of a vicious cycle or downward spiral many are caught up in, carrying so much additional crap that has so degraded the performance and seakindliness of their boats under sail, that they wind up doing more motoring, which entails carrying more cans of fuel on deck, which further degrades sailing performance, which then results in having to carry MORE fuel on deck, and so on, and so on...

One of the reasons some megayachts travel in tandem with 'Shadow' or Support vessels - in addition to the difficulty of stowing the requisite amount of water toys aboard a 200-footer - is the ability of some support vessels to carry large quantities of additional fuel. This allows them to stock up in a place like Gibraltar, where fuel prices might be lower, that can later be transferred to the Mother Ship to avoid paying higher prices elsewhere in the Med, for example... At the rate things seem to be progressing, might the notion that cruising sailors will someday wind up towing Personal Fuel Barges behind their Sailing Yachts not be all that unrealistic?



Sure, I've had trips where I carried a bit of extra fuel on deck, but I've always hated doing so, and believe the risk is not worth the reward... I think it's inherently unseamanlike offshore, anyone who's ever had diesel fuel spilled on deck knows there's nothing worse or more difficulty to remedy/clean up, and could easily result in a MOB situation... I think sailors are better served by learning to accept the limitations of their particular boats, rather than trying to turn them into something they're not...

Namely, a Nordhavn...

chef-
July can be National Dear Air Heat and Humidity Month in Long Island Sound. Sometimes the wx is fine, other days it is true dead air, stifling (95F, extremely humid) from an hour after dawn until four or five pm. So caveat emptor, check Eldridge for currents (big difference in the Sound) and be prepared to either motor or tie up for the day if you hit that wx.
There's plenty of fuel, or plenty enough, but pump-outs on the NY side can be problematic so also check your waste tank before you get into the Sound. As you approach NYC, pumpouts can be impossible.

There are a number of little-publicized spots such as Little Bay, which is just east of the south end of the Throgg's Neck Bridge, that are legitimate anchorages where you can sit overnight (no facilities, no real anything) if you're waiting for the current in the Hell Gate or just need to get some rest. You may need to squint at the charts to find them, but they are there.

I would say that EPIRBs today are cheap enough as a long-term investment to be worth considering for your offshore leg. A life raft, even a rental? I think that will cost as much as buying the EPRIB and it will be "consumed" in the trip. If you've got a dink, good communications, keep a good watch (there are deadheads and submerged debris from the rivers and piers, not many but they exist) no real pressing need for a raft. Of course, if you do go in the water in the right places, the next stop can be Gander, Newfoundland care of the Gulf Stream.(G)

I'd say an EPIRB, and a personal strobe of some sort in each PFD, so you won't have to spend the night in the water. There are lots of SAR assets in the northeast.

xort said:

3 jerry jugs of fuel is about 75 lbs. On my 32,500 lb boat that makes a BIG difference, eh?

I'd rather have the fuel and not need it than the other way around.

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Well, as mentioned, should you have the misfortune to spill a bit on deck in sporty conditions, it could make a big difference...

Unless you're using jerry cans smaller than most, or some exotic light weight blend of diesel, the weight is closer to 110 lbs. Of course, not very significant on a boat the size of yours... However, to apply the analogy of what is often said re military spending to the placement of additional gear on the deck of a cruising boat - "A hundred pounds here, another 100 pounds there, before long we're talking about some real weight being added..." And, ask a guy like Bob Perry what he thinks of the practice of carrying additional fuel on deck, I think I have a pretty good idea what his response would be...

But on a 16+ ton boat like yours, I would expect it already has a fairly hefty fuel capacity, no? Does an additional 15 gallons really make all that much difference? Certainly, there is the possibility that it might. But why not carry FOUR jerry jugs in that case, or 5? Another 5 or 10 additional gallons could make ALL the difference some day, after all...

However, in the context of this thread, I stand by my comment that it's silly for the OP to be carrying extra fuel with his 50 gallon capacity, and the trip he has planned... At the height of the summer on Long Island Sound, there's a possibility he could see daytime temps approaching 100 degrees, and brilliant sunshine, that might provide a compelling demonstration of how surprisingly porous even a good quality jerry jug can be...

Just my opinion, as always, and one obviously not shared by the majority of East coast snowbirds. I simply prefer to keep decks as clear as possible, and free from the potential of having them turned into a skating rink... Over 30 years ago I ran a C&C 39 south, a boat that the owner primarily used for racing on which the original fuel tank had been inexplicably removed, and replaced with one only holding 12 or 15 gallons... Needless to say, that trip was instrumental in the formation of my opinion regarding carrying additional fuel on deck, or in the cockpit - and I think my crew on that trip (one of the most nimble, cat-like and sure-footed sailors I've ever known) might STILL have one of the bruises to show for it...

JonEisberg said:

... I simply prefer to keep decks as clear as possible, and free from the potential of having them turned into a skating rink...

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That is why I installed padeyes on the cabin floor liner. I plan to store 2 extra water jugs and 3 fuel jugs strapped to the fiberglass floor liner just aft of the mast nestled against a fiberglass liner bench/berth where the fold down table goes - low and centered in the boat and secured with ratcheting straps to prevent any movement. With an old '70s boat with a liner, it still seems the best place to store jugs to me. The padeyes are out of the way so I won't stub my toe on them. As I don't sleep in the cabin underway, the cushions are stored in the forepeak away from a potential spill. So far the jugs have not leaked fuel. I plan to secure the diesel jugs inside double large green yard heavy duty plastic bags. If they do leak, I will probably move the fuel to the cockpit and keep only spare water jugs in the cabin. My bilge has seen diesel and oil before, so it is no biggie - wipe and hose out at the next stop.

I plan to post some photos or video of my set up before the next trip. With cargo nets, ratcheting straps, and extra supplies, my cabin takes on a certain gritty industrial/work boat look during these trips - nothing like the pretty boat show cabins.

SVAuspicious said:

I strongly agree with your philosophy about clear decks, and fuel spills on deck are clearly bad.

That said, on my own boat I carried five diesel jugs across the Atlantic (120 gallons in tanks). One of the advantages of a center cockpit boat is storing things like jugs across the aft deck.

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That can be an advantage of sugar scoop transoms, as well... I've seen some pretty clever arrangements of jerry can stowage back there...

Looking at Drake Paragon's latest video, I see he has his jerry jugs stowed outboard of the rail, helps to keep the decks a bit less obstructed:


I don't think I'll try that on a boat with a freeboard as low as mine, however

SVAuspicious said:

When we cruise long distances I still carry four or five jugs - one or two diesel, one gasoline, two water. As dedicated gunkholers the jugs are aboard more because we find ourselves in places where we can't get into a fuel dock so we need the jugs to get diesel and water out to the boat.

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Yeah, I'm hoping to make it to some spots this summer where I'll likely have to jug fuel to the boat, and I'm still debating whether to bring 1 or 2 6-gallon jugs along... One will stow in my lazarette without much trouble, but finding a good spot for the 2nd is a challenge... I think I'll just bring one, and double the amount of walking or bike riding I might have to do, and perhaps try to do a bit of Sailing, as well...

I'm getting to the age where toting a pair of jerry cans each filled with 44 lbs of diesel any real distance is a bit too much, anyway... And my bike will barely handle one jug, but 2 is out of the question...