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Discussion Starter #1
I'm considering 3 boats and would appreciate any thoughts offered.

1. 1979 Crealock 37
2. 1977 Tayana 37
3. 1977 Cabo Rico

Please assume all in similar condition.

Thanks all
 

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Crealock and Tayana are canoe sterns, so volume aft (and in the cockpit) is a little less than the Cabo. (For the record, I am in LOVE with the look of the Cabo, so my comments are a little biased.) All three are generally regarded as very well made boats. All are full keel. All are cutter rigs. All things being equal (and yes, I recognize that things are NEVER equal) I would pick the Cabo. I did mention I am in love with that boat, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for the quick reply. I too find the lines of the Cabo Rico a little more appealing than the other two.

I appreciate the observation regarding space in the cockpit.

Here's another question I should have included. The Cabo has a manual windless and I'm wondering how disadvantageous that would be when single handing?

And if it's a serious drawback how difficult is it to change to an electric windlass?
 

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Moody 46
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All 3 good choices, I would consider the Baba as well.

In my opinion an electric windlass is a must for a cruiser. Given the displacement of the boats you are looking at you will want about 10mm chain and about 75 meters. Pulling that up in say 40-50 feet of water will convince you the first time to get electric (with manual backup). For me the most important "luxuries" are autopilot and windlass
 

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I like all three also, the Crealock is definately a bluewater cruising boat. Replacing the windlass cabn be done on all the boats, Brokesailor could comment on the Crealock as he has one.

Electric Windlasses are nice features/I wont go into the positives They add a lot of weight ( Battery as well as wire if run back to most users battery compartment). They also draw quite a few amps.

We have a Simpson Lawrence mechanical windlass which works very efficiently and is very simple and easy to operate with few moving parts which can break. I single hand a lot and have no difficulty either releasing or pulling up the anchor with this setup. You can use it to pull up to the anchor as oppposed to using the electric one to do this as y put resistance to the notor ( you are supposed to power up tho you anchor with an electric one)

I have decided to stay with our mechanical one as I only have 90 ft of chain. If I had more I may reconsider.

Dave
 

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You didn't say what you intend to do with the boat you settle on but IMO an electric windlass is not a luxury if you are going cruising. Neither is some form of mechanical steering, be it vane or autopilot, especially if you have to single hand, even occasionally. I see quite a few boats with the windlass actuator at the helm, and I can see the advantages, again when single handing, but there some serious dangers in that luxury for sure.
As to the boats, I agree with those above; there's no advantage in a double-ender that I can think of other than if it has an outboard rudder upon which you can easily and cheaply mount a trim tab wind vane.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm getting a lot of helpful feedback. Thanks all.

As for what I intend to do. I intend to sail the Sea of Cortez for about a year and then head further South say to Panama, Ecuador and then who knows.
 

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The Tayana is the biggest and has the best "numbers" for performance. More than 200' more sail than the Crealock.

The Crealock is the smallest by far - 1/3 smaller than the Tayana - and has middling numbers - it's the best looking IMHO.

The Cabo has numbers getting into motorsailer territory D/L pushing 400 and Sa/D of 14.

A quick look at YW shows;

The PS ranging from $80K to $195K averaging around $130K

The Tayana ranges from $36K to $132K averaging around $80K

The IP ranges from $74K to $144K averaging around $100K

There are also 2 to 3 times as many Tayanas available.

To me it's a no-brainer - the Tayana is the biggest, cheapest, probably the fastest and it was designed by the best designer. IIRC it is also one of his personal favourites of his designs.
 

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I looked at boats for 15 years before I bought one. I had settled on the Pacific Seacraft Crealock 37 as the boat to buy until they came out with the 40. I visited the factory in the late 80s early 90s when they were built in California. Great boats.

One reason I liked them was that there weren't many on the market. That told me their owners liked them.
 

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Go check out TOG (tayana owners group) and ask around about the boats. Very popular and you will get a feel for the issues you will need to look out for. A well maintained t37 or 42 does not stay on the market long. Issues we have had are black iron tanks, aome aupporting members (stringers) in the floor under the shower needing to be replaced, some sea chest corrosion, and wiring issues. All in all, it has been a suprisingly good boat (my mom and dad keep it in washington).

The crealok that was across from us had to have all their stanchions replaced from the aluminum ones. They corroded. I know that was many thousands of dollars. The owners of that boat love it and are good friends.

Cant help on the cabo.

If it were my choice, i would lean more toward the tayana 37. The large owners group for these boats is very active and lots of info.

Incidentally, why wouldnt you add a valiant 40 to that mix too?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hello Cruisingdad,

At your suggestion I am adding the Valiant 40 to my list. My guess is it will be too expensive for me but there is one listed at $69K on YW in my neighborhood, the SF Bay. My guess is since it was built in 1981 by Uniflie it has the blistering problem and it's probably not fixed.

I've sent a message to the broker asking about it and I'm eager to hear back.
 

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ALL of these boats from that specific age are becoming 'well tired', unless were meticulously maintained. Most were supplied with screwed down teak decks ... which only lasts about 15-20 years before the screws 'saw through' the FRG under deck due to thermal cycling and you are forced to go through the bloody horrors of deck overhaul.

The 'metal' on Ty37s is beyond 'deplorable', and the Ty37 will usually have a 'chainplate knee' problem - ROT. Be wary of OEM Tayana rigging (terminals - are yard made and are beyond dangerous).
Many/most of the mid to late 70s Ty's will have wood spars ... adds a LOT of weight aloft.
Performance wise the Ty37 is well over-canvassed ... very good for 'light winds'. and has a 'large enough' staysl to properly power up to blast into and through BIG chop.
Black iron tanks do rot, build a thick FRG liner inside - problem solved.
The Ty37 is the clear ahead 'better performer' of the 3. Its a 'tank', a relatively 'fast tank'.
600+ were produced and with many 'good ones' still available ... usually sold very quickly through the Tayana Owners Group - a google group.

The C37 has a finer bow entry angle (sharpness) so windward performance is a bit better.
The stubbier Ty37 has a quite dry foredeck and has lots of reserve buoyancy.
The CR has a clipper bow ... easily 'knocked off to the side' by oncoming waves= 'the caribbean two step ... 2 steps forward, 1 step to the side'.

Teak maintenance is NOT a problem if you use the expensive modern 2-part + 2 part coatings (probably the cheapest when you amortize the cost vs. time spent) and 'seal' the deck teak w/ SEMCO, etc.

Sailing all 3, which are 'true' cutter-rigs, will be quite different than sailing a sloop ... especially when it comes to rig tensions. That headstay needs to be 'taught' for beating .... or over you go onto your side as well as skidding sideways; for performance that 'forestay' (forestaysail stay) needs to be mostly slack when 3 sails are flying - IMO.
Staysails with a clubfoot or hoyt-booms VASTLY outperform 'free clew' staysails .... due to the narrow sheeting angles up forward.

For such an old boats, suggest you choose the one thats in the 'very best shape' to save a lot of 'drudgery and rebuild/refit expense'.

Changing out a manual for electric windlass ... all it takes is $$$$. Go electric and add an additional up/down control back to the cockpit, or choose one with a 'remote'.

:)
 

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I've owned two of the boats you are considering. The Tayana is a tank. Been back and forth with her to Bermuda in rediculous conditions and never was scared even when looking forward from the wheel and seeing no boat until she rose again through the sea. Tracts true has the comfort motion of a Rolls Royce. A beast to maintain ( I had wooden spar) with lousy fittings but beautiful solid teak woodwork below. She doesn't like to point but doesn't beat you up on a beat.
The PSC is a graceful lady. All constructions details first rate except the wire runs can be problematic if you need to replace or want to add things. Twice the sailor as the Tayana and still good in blue water. 150+nm days not the exception they were wth the Tayana. (I lived withthese boats in a light air region) Al the PSCs hve a excellent motion in a seaway. Rare anyone prays to Neptune. Not nearly as roomie as the tayana. The quarterberth in the Tayana is a much better seaberth. Having owned both would go with the Crealock if cruising wth two ( get one with the "single handers package" - if you can afford it get a N.C. one not a Cal. one) If cruising with kids or covering ground (in light air or to windward) less important would get the Tayana. Unless you live somewhere very shoal skip the Sheel keel. Currently have a PSC34 and am always surprised how well she goes to weather.
 

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I've owned two of the boats you are considering. The Tayana is a tank. Been back and forth with her to Bermuda in rediculous conditions and never was scared even when looking forward from the wheel and seeing no boat until she rose again through the sea. Tracts true has the comfort motion of a Rolls Royce. A beast to maintain ( I had wooden spar) with lousy fittings but beautiful solid teak woodwork below. She doesn't like to point but doesn't beat you up on a beat.
The PSC is a graceful lady. All constructions details first rate except the wire runs can be problematic if you need to replace or want to add things. Twice the sailor as the Tayana and still good in blue water. 150+nm days not the exception they were wth the Tayana. (I lived withthese boats in a light air region) Al the PSCs hve a excellent motion in a seaway. Rare anyone prays to Neptune. Not nearly as roomie as the tayana. The quarterberth in the Tayana is a much better seaberth. Having owned both would go with the Crealock if cruising wth two ( get one with the "single handers package" - if you can afford it get a N.C. one not a Cal. one) If cruising with kids or covering ground (in light air or to windward) less important would get the Tayana. Unless you live somewhere very shoal skip the Sheel keel. Currently have a PSC34 and am always surprised how well she goes to weather.
Now I am not a Crealok expert, so help me here.

THe era he is looking at is a straight Crealok, right? PSC may have purchased them later, but these are all Crealok with no influence from PSC. I will tell you that the owners of the Crealok 37 did try on several things to reach out to PSC for help on some issues, and found PSC was not very knowledgeable about that boat. It would be like Catalina answering questions on the design of the Yankee 38 (which would become the Catalina 38) designed by Sparkman & Stephens.

BTW, did you have the aluminum stanchion on that boat? The owners of this one ended up snapping two of them, then finally had them all replaced with Stainless which was not cheap.

To the original poster, my experience with these boats is that they are both very high on maintenance. i hope you know your systems and maintenance well or the yards will break your budget quickly. What I have seen (in no particular order): Engine issues, teak decks issues, leaking tracks, stanchions replaced, general leaks (from who knows where), stove and oven issues, head issues (happens to all boats though).

When you buy a vintage boat like this, make sure you know your stuff or have a lot of money in reserve for the yards.

My opinions.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I thank everyone for responding to my question. The comments have greatly assisted me in the process I’m going through.

All of the comments I think fall into the common sense variety (I don’t mean that pejoratively or dismissively) for anyone making a major purchase and then there were comments that offered new information to me such as where to look for boat comps and specifics on each boat.

What I take away from all of the comments are:

1. Do you’re homework, get comps.

2. Use the survey to help make final offer

3. You can’t make a hard and fast rule re percentages.

4. Use these resources to determine value NADA, Boat US., Insurance co. valuations, bank valuations.

5. Do offer something less than asked, the seller may be hungry. I think how hungry can be determined by some good qualifying questions to begin with.

6. Be ready to walk away if the deal doesn’t look good.

I am using the accountant/engineering method for boat comparison detailed nicely by SailingJackson .

For instance in comparing the Tayana with the Cabo if I like both boats but one is missing some must have and costly gear that the other has that will obviously tip my decision.

However, this thread has alerted me (comments by RichH and CruisingDad) to make some further considerations and I’ve started another thread to explore that issue.

“Are Boats Built in the 70's Just Too Tired” on the Boat Review and Purchase forum.

RichH said the boats I’m looking at are “tired” and Cruising Dad made mention of all the things that will probably need repair or replacement.

Now I do know that boats need constant maintenance and attention so my question on the other thread are 70's boats just too old to consider.

Thanks all for the valuable assistance here.
 

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Ask yourself if a 70's house is too old to consider. It's a pretty fair comparison to boats.
 

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#5 on your list is one discussed often on these forums, but I just wanted to give you a heads up.
It's still a buyer's market and I wouldn't take much consideration of the owner's feelings. This is a place where you can save huge bucks if you get a tiny bit lucky.
If you can determine how long a boat has been on the market, how desperately, or not, the owner needs out and buy before spring/summer, your chances of getting a better deal are greatly improved.
We got our boat for 60% of the asking price, which was well below market, because the owner just could not afford dockage and insurance for another year. He was so angry he wouldn't even come down to the boat for two weeks after I purchased it, to show me the little quirks every boat has. But he got over it and though I am living his dream, on his boat, we each got what we needed out of the transaction.
Good luck.
 
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