First time caller here. Registered specifically to get more info on H28's as I hope to have a boat in next few years and this one popped up on various searches. I am wondering how comfortable they are for long cruises, say Fla to Virgin, etc. Headroom? Sea kindly? Easy to single hand? It seems there are many variations on the original design, including the dog house which obviously improves space below deck. BTW, how do you fit a dinghy on board with the doghouse? Thanks for anyone's comments about their experience with this boat.
Help with Herreshoff H-28
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Paging Christian Hess, Paging Christian Hess!
There are a few folks with them or had them here on the forum. Nice boat for what they are, nice simple cruiser. I believe they are known to be sea kindly and are sure beautiful. Be careful they are easy to fall into love with, and that can really cloud your judgement!
There are a few folks with them or had them here on the forum. Nice boat for what they are, nice simple cruiser. I believe they are known to be sea kindly and are sure beautiful. Be careful they are easy to fall into love with, and that can really cloud your judgement!
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hey just saw this! jajaja what info do you need again?
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Yea, it is very dangerous to fall in love with a boat before you buy it. Makes you do anything to get it! and will let you minimize any issues it has, but as I said they are really beautiful, seems you should get one again now that you are in the states.is
that
soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?
jajaja
I am wondering how comfortable they are for long cruises, say Fla to Virgin, etc. Headroom? Sea kindly? Easy to single hand? It seems there are many variations on the original design, including the dog house which obviously improves space below deck. BTW, how do you fit a dinghy on board with the doghouse? Thanks for anyone's comments about their experience with this boat
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hey drubi as my judgement is clouded which it is regarding the h28 here is my take
its great for a couple, if wood get one that is double planked, prefferably double diaginal on oak frames.
the original ones do not have a doghouse, those are the bermuda modified ones which sail better upwind
also cheoy lee and many other makers made boats specd to the original h28 design
these include
(edit this is wrong)the cheoy lee cadet, 27****, OFSHORE 31, and the closest the far east 29
you can also get a glass h28 if you go to new zealand with standing headroom...
the h28 can be sailed with an autopilot simple tiller pilot on all points except deep broad reach
that is where the h28 shines as it will fly...!!!
I beat many a bigger boat simply carrying full sails and steering by hand
the h28 is strong...tracks well extremely well downwind, is very seakindly in big seas
it does NOT like a chop
it DOES not pointy well especially in chop and upwind in mild wind
IT DOES LOVE DDW AND BROAD REACH especially when the wind gets above 15
it loves spirited sailing
it has zero freeboard aft so its great to wash your pots and pans
its a joy to get back onto
the teack decks keep your feet cool
we put an inflatable dinghy on the foredeck
again original design, to the t
no doghouse, low boom with only 2 ft between it and the house...
in the end thats my experience
oh forgot the engine is offset to port so backing to stbd is near impossible however I learned how to after much cruising
we cruised our h28 lapaz from stockton, ca to ft lauderdale florida to my grandpas dock back in 2000-2001
our best days run was close to 200 our worst not worth mentioning
she powered through it all with grace
and if you have never had a boat WHERE EVERYBODY OOOOHS AND AAAAAAHS AT YOU well get ready
every single anchorage people either congratulated us for making it and or said how on earth are you doing it or man what a boat
anyhoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
its great for a couple, if wood get one that is double planked, prefferably double diaginal on oak frames.
the original ones do not have a doghouse, those are the bermuda modified ones which sail better upwind
also cheoy lee and many other makers made boats specd to the original h28 design
these include
(edit this is wrong)the cheoy lee cadet, 27****, OFSHORE 31, and the closest the far east 29
you can also get a glass h28 if you go to new zealand with standing headroom...
the h28 can be sailed with an autopilot simple tiller pilot on all points except deep broad reach
that is where the h28 shines as it will fly...!!!
I beat many a bigger boat simply carrying full sails and steering by hand
the h28 is strong...tracks well extremely well downwind, is very seakindly in big seas
it does NOT like a chop
it DOES not pointy well especially in chop and upwind in mild wind
IT DOES LOVE DDW AND BROAD REACH especially when the wind gets above 15
it loves spirited sailing
it has zero freeboard aft so its great to wash your pots and pans
its a joy to get back onto
the teack decks keep your feet cool
we put an inflatable dinghy on the foredeck
again original design, to the t
no doghouse, low boom with only 2 ft between it and the house...
in the end thats my experience
oh forgot the engine is offset to port so backing to stbd is near impossible however I learned how to after much cruising
we cruised our h28 lapaz from stockton, ca to ft lauderdale florida to my grandpas dock back in 2000-2001
our best days run was close to 200 our worst not worth mentioning
she powered through it all with grace
and if you have never had a boat WHERE EVERYBODY OOOOHS AND AAAAAAHS AT YOU well get ready
every single anchorage people either congratulated us for making it and or said how on earth are you doing it or man what a boat
anyhoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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wise wise words
but we are boat owners
nobody thinks right when looking at one right???????????????
Im experiencing this as we speak with a merit 25
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I have some experience with H-28's most of which was on a wooden version built to the original design. For me it was love at first gust. While these boats are cramped and slow by modern standards, by any standard, these boats sail very well in a broad range of conditions and are a pleasure to sail.
That said, not all boats, which purport to be an H-28 are all that close to the original design in execution and behavior. After all there have been a lot of versions claiming to be an H-28, some in wood, glass and some very loose interpretations in hard chine plywood and ferrocement, some with doghouses, sloop rigs, and inboard rudders.
L. Francis was very opposed to modifying the H-28 even slightly. As L. Francis famously said, “If H-28's design is only slightly changed, the whole balance may be thrown out. If you equip her with deadeyes, build her with sawn frames, or fill her virgin bilge with ballast, the birds will no longer carol over her, nor will the odors arising from the cabin make poetry nor will you be
fortified against a world of warlords, politicians and fakers.”
Clearly many of the builders chose to ignore that advice. The original H-28s were nicely balanced and tracked well. They ghosted pretty well in light going and had enough stability and a low enough rig to sail well in a breeze. The jib and mizzen were about the right size so that the boat could be sailed under jib and mizzen in a breeze (although was very hard to tack with just the jib and mizzen). The deck plan was very simple and single-handing was very easy with her fractional jib and self-tending main and mizzen. The cockpit was a little strange so that crossing the cockpit was a challenge on a tack with the tiller aft of the mizzen, the mizzen just ahead of the tiller, the mizzen backstay angeling back below the boom, and the mizzen boom pretty low to the deck. It would also not be Bimini cover friendly.
The interior layout was very simple, workable, Spartan, but reasonably comfortable. The original design had fold down pipe berths that were surprisingly comfortable, but few were built with that layout. Most that I saw had a vee berth forward. Then came a head which was fully exposed to the forward cabin but which could be visually closed to the main cabin. The main cabin had opposing settees. On the one boat the galley was aft and went across under a bridge deck. The other had the galley forward and settees aft that partially extended under the cockpit seats to make a full length berth. I am 5’-9” and between the low house and low freeboard, I seem to remember having to duck as I moved through the cabin.
But as these boats were modified they varied in a broad range of ways, most came at the price of the seaworthiness, seakindly and easily driven behavior the originals were known for. To begin with most of the fiberglass hulls were substantially heavier than the wooden hulls. Further complicating the problem, the glass boats often had the freeboard raised, a larger cabin structure, more accommodations and tankage, a bigger heavier engine and so on. The result was that the glass ones generally had some mix of reduced ballast and/or greater displacement. The problem was made worse because many of the glass boats had internal encapsulated ballast and that ballast was often a lower density than the lead that Herreshoff had specified.
That really hurt sailing ability in almost all conditions. It also hurt apparent stability enormously. To put this in perspective, the original design was intended to have a displacement around 9,000 lbs with a slightly more than a 31% ballast ratio carried as cast lead, external ballast. The glass ones generally were closer to 11,000 to 12,000 lb displacement but with the same ballast or less than their much lighter hulled wooden cousins. And to put those numbers in perspective, these boats had a heavier displacement than my 38 footer with a 1,500 lbs less ballast carried in a draft that was 3 feet shallower and with a beam that was nearly three feet narrower.
As a broad generality these heavier versions tended to be noticeably inferior in light air, and far worse in a chop. In fact, they tended to feel much more tender in a breeze. Because the heavier versions had such a low ballast ratio, they often had a reduced sail area as well. This came about in a number of ways. The original H-28 had very low booms (too low to have a dinghy on the house). When the dog house was added the booms were raised to clear the house. With the higher freeboard, lower ballast ratio, low density ballast, these boats would not tolerate having their mast heights increased and so they were generally under canvassed as well. These boats seemed to roll excessively as well.
The worst example of this were the glass Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30’s. On the other hand there were reportedly some very nice Australian built versions, including some with a fractional sloop rig that was slightly deeper and with heavier ballasted, that I understand these sailed very well. But there were also some very overweight Australian versions that were real slugs and really should not have been called H-28's.
One of the more authentic glass renditions was Henry Walton's version from the 1960's. These were either built in Europe or Canada and were really nicely done. I recently saw and ad for a Krueger Marine's version that looks very authentic.
In the end, the way that I look at the H-28 is that these are boats which take a specific mindset, a mindset that can appreciate them for their simplicity and minimalist virtues. And while for the dollar there are many boats that offer more room, better carrying capacity, performance, seaworthiness, and ease of handling, for the right kind of person, an H-28 would be hard to beat.
That said, not all boats, which purport to be an H-28 are all that close to the original design in execution and behavior. After all there have been a lot of versions claiming to be an H-28, some in wood, glass and some very loose interpretations in hard chine plywood and ferrocement, some with doghouses, sloop rigs, and inboard rudders.
L. Francis was very opposed to modifying the H-28 even slightly. As L. Francis famously said, “If H-28's design is only slightly changed, the whole balance may be thrown out. If you equip her with deadeyes, build her with sawn frames, or fill her virgin bilge with ballast, the birds will no longer carol over her, nor will the odors arising from the cabin make poetry nor will you be
fortified against a world of warlords, politicians and fakers.”
Clearly many of the builders chose to ignore that advice. The original H-28s were nicely balanced and tracked well. They ghosted pretty well in light going and had enough stability and a low enough rig to sail well in a breeze. The jib and mizzen were about the right size so that the boat could be sailed under jib and mizzen in a breeze (although was very hard to tack with just the jib and mizzen). The deck plan was very simple and single-handing was very easy with her fractional jib and self-tending main and mizzen. The cockpit was a little strange so that crossing the cockpit was a challenge on a tack with the tiller aft of the mizzen, the mizzen just ahead of the tiller, the mizzen backstay angeling back below the boom, and the mizzen boom pretty low to the deck. It would also not be Bimini cover friendly.
The interior layout was very simple, workable, Spartan, but reasonably comfortable. The original design had fold down pipe berths that were surprisingly comfortable, but few were built with that layout. Most that I saw had a vee berth forward. Then came a head which was fully exposed to the forward cabin but which could be visually closed to the main cabin. The main cabin had opposing settees. On the one boat the galley was aft and went across under a bridge deck. The other had the galley forward and settees aft that partially extended under the cockpit seats to make a full length berth. I am 5’-9” and between the low house and low freeboard, I seem to remember having to duck as I moved through the cabin.
But as these boats were modified they varied in a broad range of ways, most came at the price of the seaworthiness, seakindly and easily driven behavior the originals were known for. To begin with most of the fiberglass hulls were substantially heavier than the wooden hulls. Further complicating the problem, the glass boats often had the freeboard raised, a larger cabin structure, more accommodations and tankage, a bigger heavier engine and so on. The result was that the glass ones generally had some mix of reduced ballast and/or greater displacement. The problem was made worse because many of the glass boats had internal encapsulated ballast and that ballast was often a lower density than the lead that Herreshoff had specified.
That really hurt sailing ability in almost all conditions. It also hurt apparent stability enormously. To put this in perspective, the original design was intended to have a displacement around 9,000 lbs with a slightly more than a 31% ballast ratio carried as cast lead, external ballast. The glass ones generally were closer to 11,000 to 12,000 lb displacement but with the same ballast or less than their much lighter hulled wooden cousins. And to put those numbers in perspective, these boats had a heavier displacement than my 38 footer with a 1,500 lbs less ballast carried in a draft that was 3 feet shallower and with a beam that was nearly three feet narrower.
As a broad generality these heavier versions tended to be noticeably inferior in light air, and far worse in a chop. In fact, they tended to feel much more tender in a breeze. Because the heavier versions had such a low ballast ratio, they often had a reduced sail area as well. This came about in a number of ways. The original H-28 had very low booms (too low to have a dinghy on the house). When the dog house was added the booms were raised to clear the house. With the higher freeboard, lower ballast ratio, low density ballast, these boats would not tolerate having their mast heights increased and so they were generally under canvassed as well. These boats seemed to roll excessively as well.
The worst example of this were the glass Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30’s. On the other hand there were reportedly some very nice Australian built versions, including some with a fractional sloop rig that was slightly deeper and with heavier ballasted, that I understand these sailed very well. But there were also some very overweight Australian versions that were real slugs and really should not have been called H-28's.
One of the more authentic glass renditions was Henry Walton's version from the 1960's. These were either built in Europe or Canada and were really nicely done. I recently saw and ad for a Krueger Marine's version that looks very authentic.
In the end, the way that I look at the H-28 is that these are boats which take a specific mindset, a mindset that can appreciate them for their simplicity and minimalist virtues. And while for the dollar there are many boats that offer more room, better carrying capacity, performance, seaworthiness, and ease of handling, for the right kind of person, an H-28 would be hard to beat.
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I was very proud jeff that my h28 was built to the exact specs of l francis
in fact the previous owner had sensible cruising designs book with notes reffering to my boat
my boat was a 1958
a loooong time ago I found 1 pic of it on the net
in any case I cant find it now
my cruise was before the era of sail blogs and such jajajaja
latitude 38 has some refferences to it though
oh well
in fact the previous owner had sensible cruising designs book with notes reffering to my boat
my boat was a 1958
a loooong time ago I found 1 pic of it on the net
in any case I cant find it now
my cruise was before the era of sail blogs and such jajajaja
latitude 38 has some refferences to it though
oh well
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- 5,469
A small correction to Christian's post. Cheoy Lee built Four different versions of the H-28. They originally built a fairly authentic original style wooden version. They then built a wooden adaptation with a doghouse and a higher freeboard called a Bermuda 30. It was replaced with a glass version with the same name but a lot more weight and less ballast and less sail area. It was replaced by the Offshore 31 which was a stretched version with an inboard rudder. That version also had masthead sloop version.
But the 27 foot Cheoy Lee Newel Cadet is a very different boat.
Jeff
But the 27 foot Cheoy Lee Newel Cadet is a very different boat.
Jeff
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your right the newel cadet just came to my mind...
the far east 29 and the "bermuda" h28 copy are the closest....the offshore 31 is a good boat but again different.
however the glass nz boats had the closest HULL to the old wood h28 than any of the cheoy lees
cheoy lee while a great boat in general terms(some) bastardized too many of the dimensions of the original h28
the nz and aussie h28s have very very almost perfect glass copies of the h28 hulls, however again they had glass decks, doghouse and cabin and aluminum masts...they are nice in my book however most are sloops not ketches...
about the only mod Im ok with for my old h28 would be a bowsprit addition in order to run 2 headsails
my mast came rigged for an inner foresail a small sprit would of been a great addition for even more sail area in certain winds and angles
in any case
post some pics of h28s op so we can help you out with any info we have
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I tend to not be able to do that
as you will find out however you are welcome
and any questions you need answered if I can Im glad to help
ps wish I had more pics of our cruise...it would get your juices flowing regarding the h28
I miss here tremendously...that boat talked to me like no other! we knew eachother so well
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