[Sunday Driver]

Hello all

I have a catalina 250 , my wife and i go sailing on Long island sound CT ,NY,RI.
and would like to rig up a stay sail .
we dont go out in bad weather but have come home /found shelter plenty of times .
i would like to have the top just above the spreaders , and below a quik fitting just behind my furler there is a place to attach it .

the upper i plan to rivit ot the mast with a bracket (westmarine #129502)page 1018 , and below that a block for the the halyard .

i dont know how to figure the load to match the hardware with out spending big money on over sized , and wanting to keep it simple .

would a dingy quick release shroud leaver work ? (westmarine #246167)page 1005

also i am figuring to have a hank on sail made to the size i need .

also what do you think about the high strengh line verses wire ??
when not in use i plan to run it down the mast and to the side .


A bigger boat would be nice but for now just working with what i have , thanks for any thoughts

new guy tring to make it home :hammer
uke

also i have 2 reef points on the main

 

[killarney_sailor]

For this use, using line should be fine and it would be much easier to store when not in use compared to wire. Without doing the sums, that lever might not be up to the task. On other thought, you may need to have running backstays to balance the inner stay since your current rig was not designed to have a load in the middle like this. Don't know your boat, but if you don't fore and aft lowers you should not even consider the possibility of a staysail without runners. Runners certainly can be Spectra or something similar with a simple block and tackle for tension.

 

[Faster]

Roller furling headsail? or hank-on all around?

If the latter I'd definitely just go with a smaller sail on the forestay and avoid the complications/loads involved with an extra inner stay.

Besides adequate strength of the bale to the mast, the block attachment, and the strength of the tensioner, is the strength of the deck itself where you plan to attach it - unlikely such a load was anticipated by those who built the deck.

If you're primarily daysailing or short cruising and prepared to wait for weather I wouldn't do this (more complicated than it might seem) modification.

 

[outbound]

Have had good luck with dymeena for this purpose and removeable inner stormsail stay to supplement solent rig. Can use device from Johnson or Wichard to tension stay. Boat was built with this set up in mind. Remove stay when coastal.
However agree with Faster this is way overkill for you and an unnecessary expense. Would only be justified for offshore passage making.
+1 on what Faster advised. If you wanted storm jib they make them to fit over roller furled jibs. If no roller furling search used sail sites for storm jib that will fit. Most storm jibs are rarely used so used ones usually in good shape.

 

[sailingfool]

Ditto the advice that an inner forestay is an offshore stormsail plan only. If you do not have a smaller jib, ala 100% that should be all you need for up to low 30's.

 

[Sunday Driver]

thanks for the responses ,

i have a roller furl 130 now .

and i have inner shrouds just below the sweped back spreaders so im thinking the mast might be supported ...

furling works but seems i could do better , switching a sail on my furler is a pain at anchor , so thats out .
I have thought about ATN
Gale sail looks good too .

then i read a artical on how a low-inner stay makes a big differance and the new lines make them easyer to rig .
so started looking into that ..

looks like $400 for the rigging i havent looked at sail prices yet ..

 

[paulk]

How often do you plan to spend half a day beating into 30 knots of wind? That's what the sail and setup you describe are generally for on boats a good deal larger than yours. The 24' Serraffyn (sp?) may have had a staysail, but she also had a bowsprit putting the tack of the outer jib out about 10' further, and she weighed about eight times what your boat weighs. Spending for the rigging is just the start. The sail will be another similar amount, and you may need to rig new jib leads as well. To avoid straining parts of the boat that were not designed for such a setup could also be a hassle. Reinforcing the deck at the tack, new running backstays (and the hassle they can be when you're not using them), and the mast could simply de-form at the hounds from the load and... goodbye rig. It may sound like a sensible "just in case" option, but the better option would be to spend the money on a radio that gets marine band weather reports and listen to it. I If the wind pipes up too much, furl the jib, reef the main, and power (or sail) home.

 

[Alex W]

I've also been considering adding a solent stay to my boat (29'). I would add the stay to run parallel to the forestay and just behind it. I wouldn't add a solent stay at the spreaders without also supporting that stay with running backstays. That adds a lot of complexity.

In the meantime I've changed my rigging to allow for easy sail changes on the furler. I moved the jib halyard from the cockpit back to the mast (and will be adding a second jib halyard next time my mast is down). A prefeeder has been added to the furler. Having the halyard at the mast makes it easier for me to change the sail solo (because I can lead the halyard forward). My furler (like most furlers) has two tracks, so it will be possible to do sail changes underway without dropping a sail first once I add the second jib halyard.

I have 3 headsails: 60% storm jib, 100% working jib, and 135% genoa.

With this work complete a solent stay seems less important.

 

[Faster]

.....
In the meantime I've changed my rigging to allow for easy sail changes on the furler. I moved the jib halyard from the cockpit back to the mast (and will be adding a second jib halyard next time my mast is down). A prefeeder has been added to the furler. Having the halyard at the mast makes it easier for me to change the sail solo (because I can lead the halyard forward). My furler (like most furlers) has two tracks, so it will be possible to do sail changes underway without dropping a sail first once I add the second jib halyard.

I have 3 headsails: 60% storm jib, 100% working jib, and 135% genoa.

With this work complete a solent stay seems less important.

Doing a running change will only be possible if you are using the furler as a foil with the swivel left at the bottom.. if the first sail is hoisted on the swivel, the second won't allow the first to drop. (but you knew that, right?)

 

[Alex W]

Yes, good correction. I've only done running changes on boats with foils (not furlers) and hadn't completely thought that one through. It actually makes me wonder why they put two tracks in, because the swivel doesn't drop all the way to the base of the furler (it stops at the feeder, about 3' up the forestay). If I start actively racing this boat it is something that I'll have to explore.

Even without the ability to do a running change this configuration makes sail changes a lot easier than they were before, especially when light handed. I'm not convinced that rolling up a furling sail and changing to the solent stay will involve less foredeck work than changing from the 100% jib to the storm jib on the furler. You would have half as much sail fabric on the foredeck, since only one sail would be on the deck instead of two.

An attraction of the solent stay is that there are a lot of good hank-on sails in the world at incredibly low prices. A solent stay would give you access to that inventory of sails, while using the furler for your most often used genoa. This benefit would be lost for the OP's plan of having the solent stay start at the spreaders, since that would make for an usually acute sail shape.

 

[RichH]

A Catalina 250 has a J dimension (distance from forestay connection to mast) of only 9ft. Using (even) a removable forestay will complicate and clutter the foredeck spaces. Plus, the forestay (its now called a forestay as its 'the first stay in front of the mast' and the original forestay now becomes the headstay) will need at least running backstays to prevent the mast from radically bowing forwards when flying a staysail or to lessen the possibility of mast 'pumping'. Your boat only has swept spreaders with a cap shroud to the masthead and a single intermediate shroud running to the spreader base .... not much 'support' for a staysail without complicated structural additions.
Adding an additional 'stay' in front of the mast results in a variable and complicated 'interplay' of 'in front of the mast stay tensions' ... as you still only will have ONE backstay.

Id suggest not to add a staysail and forestay on such a short J-dimension (and relatively short mainsail foot dimension) and relatively narrow beamed boat.
Rather Id suggest for higher wind conditions, to use either a 'storm jib' or a short LP 'blade jib'. Reason is: you already have all the hardware, you dont have to modify the structure of your boat .... and ultimately 'it keeps things SIMPLE': Just reef the main and CHANGE the jib to a 'smaller' one.

Just remember that with your current jib/genoa that if you 'furl' it more than beyond ~30% of its 'full' sail area or LP dimension, the sail shape will become 'deplorable' and all the curvature of the 'broad-seaming' near the luff section will be all 'rolled up' inside the furling. Once you furl beyond that ~30% number on a jib/genoa, its really time to 'change jibs' to a smaller LP jib.

 

[krisscross]

One way to attach a temporary forestay is by splitting the bottom of it and attaching the lower sections to the rails on both sides. In most cases that is by far the easiest installation.

 

[Barquito]

Since the OP mentioned the difficulty in changing sails on the roller furler, even at anchor, maybe a solution would be to convert to hank-on. Then the correct sail for the day can be selected without difficulty. Plus, as an added benefit, you feel like a real sailor when you are up on the foredeck fighting a genoa in a blow.

 

[RichH]

Since the OP mentioned the difficulty in changing sails on the roller furler, even at anchor, .......

Then, find out what's the 'binding' problem is then correct it ... possibly needs a new 'luff support tape' at the luff, a thorough 'cleaning' of the foil groove, and the liberal usage of a 'dry lubricant' ('McLube', etc.) in the foil groove, etc. Ditto ... investigate the 'lead angle' of the furler top swivel if the furler is 'binding' when using its furling control line, etc. ..... Have a rigger check out the installation and if needed get a sailmaker to the boat.

 

[Alex W]

He didn't say what made the sail changes hard at anchor.

Catalina boats of this size often have CDI furlers. They have an unusual design that is swivel-less and uses a small diameter halyard that is integral to the furler (this lets them get rid of the expensive top swivel). They are indeed hard to change sails on (or to adjust halyard tension on).

A better use of money might be getting a furler that allows for easier sail changes. A Harken 00AL or Unit 0 furler is in the same ballpark as adding a solent stay.

 

[RichH]

He didn't say what made the sail changes hard at anchor.

Catalina boats of this size often have CDI furlers. They have an unusual design that is swivel-less and uses a small diameter halyard that is integral to the furler (this lets them get rid of the expensive top swivel). They are indeed hard to change sails on (or to adjust halyard tension on).

A better use of money might be getting a furler that allows for easier sail changes. A Harken 00AL or Unit 0 furler is in the same ballpark as adding a solent stay.

Good point ! CDI units are only 'really' furlers, not reefing furlers; so maybe, a modern true reefing-furler might be the most appropriate 'correction' here.

 

[Sunday Driver]

I have a shaffer 500 snap furler , the cheapest one with no bearings.
it came with the boat .
the 130 sail has reef foam in the front part of the sail . its a newer sail

and yes there is no room up front ..and the window is slippery !

I have a place were my furler attches to add a stay with room ..

with a outbourd motor it helps to have some jib out when motorsailing in bad weather

 

[Alex W]

You'll have to do foredeck work to setup the solent stay.

What makes changing the sail difficult on your furler? It isn't that it is a CDI as I had guessed -- the Snapfurl does have a normal halyard.

 

[Sunday Driver]

the foam strips in the sail make the sail stiff ..

and the feed into the track is pretty tight it doesnt pull up , you have to had feed every foot .

did you say there is a quick feed to add ?

a storm stay i figure would be easyer if you need more power just unfurl the 130 ,
i have room on my jib track for 2 cars to have both lines ready ..

i dont mind going forward but it is a nice day boat so bad weather i would reather not
im 42 pretty fit
i also have radar on the phone and a ipad to get the weather .
we use the boat ,and you always get caught in something if you go anywhere ..

 

[Alex W]

If you add a pre-feeder it will make it a lot easier to pull the sail up. The pre-feeder aligns the luff tape with the track. They are inexpensive, a cheap one is $15 and a super deluxe one is around $50.

Foam strips shouldn't make a huge difference, my (6 month old) genoa also has them and I don't find that it makes dropping the sail any harder. It makes flaking it a little harder, but I don't flake the sail until later. You can leave it tied down and along the stanchions.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who has used both setups on how much time it takes to switch sails on the furler vs roll up the furler and switch to the solent sail. I have a feeling that it is about the same amount of time, but have only done sail switches on furler and don't know for sure.