Henri Lloyd Ocean Explorer Jacket Sizing
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No but if label says China, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc I get next larger size.
http://www.boatingbusiness.com/news101/Aftermarket/clothing/the-tail-of-the-chinese-dragon
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I wear HL large jacket, 3 years old, most clothes I buy are large to fit shoulders, my 25 year old (they're mint condition, stored for 16 years, they even have serial number) Mustang Ocean Gear bibs are large, too large but they are great for layering here on Lake Ontario in April, May, October. If you aren't bulked up large should do.
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They used to be sized to accommodate a layer of warmer clothing under them, but there's usually a link to a size chart on the web pages of any reputable vendor. If not, ask HL for their size chart.
And if you're planning to really bundle up in colder wx, you still might want to size up.
But personally I've found that a really good fitting collar, that really blocks rain and wind, makes a huge difference. And there's no accounting for the fit on that, except to go out and try them on. Some are great, others just bind or chafe at the wrong point. Sleeve length is also not really reflected in sizing.
And if you're planning to really bundle up in colder wx, you still might want to size up.
But personally I've found that a really good fitting collar, that really blocks rain and wind, makes a huge difference. And there's no accounting for the fit on that, except to go out and try them on. Some are great, others just bind or chafe at the wrong point. Sleeve length is also not really reflected in sizing.
Thanks for the replies. I have seen the sizing guide and at 5'7" with a 39" chest it puts me at the upper end of small. I always buy medium winter jackets/shells though and was going to this time until I saw the thread on the Musto sizing with guys that are 6'+ 200+ wearing mediums. I then looked at Musto's guide and they said I'm a medium!!! Jacket is on clearance with no returns so I want to be sure.
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My HL jacket fits true to size, without room for an additional layer.
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There is a lot of variation among makers. Some will give a chest size for XL that others say is just L while some call it XXL. When in doubt, you have to go by the sizing chart that particular maker uses, and if you're buying online, check for reviews that mention the accuracy of the sizing.
Then there are some arguably objective sizing charts. The US Army literally measures hundreds of thousands of people and while their "population" may not reflect the larger civilian population, it is supposed to be pretty close for their age groups. The Army does indeed have size guides listed someplace online, I think the Natick Labs used to offer that data since they were also in charge of camo patterns, whether BDU pants should have Velcro (obsoleted now) or buttons on the fly, all sorts of "garment" stuff.
From a site claiming to repeat the Army information: (and they'd call 5'7" with a 39" chest a solid MEDIUM jacket)
The size charts below are for the Army Combat Uniform. The chart shows the sizes for both the Army Combat Uniform Trousers (ACU Trousers or Pants) and also the Army Combat Uniform Jacket (ACU Jacket).
ACU Size Chart:
ACU Trousers Inseam (In) Waist (In)
Size X-Small
X-Small X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 Up to 27
Size Small
Small X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 27 to 31
Small Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 27 to 31
Small Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 27 to 31
Small Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 27 to 31
Small X-Long ACU Trousers
35 1/2 to 38 1/2 27 to 31
Small XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 27 to 31
Size Medium
Medium X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 31 to 35
Medium Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 31 to 35
Medium Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 31 to 35
Medium Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 31 to 35
Medium X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 31 to 35
Medium XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 31 to 35
Size Large
Large X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 35 to 39
Large Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 35 to 39
Large Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 35 to 39
Large Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 35 to 39
Large X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 35 to 39
Large XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 35 to 39
Size X-Large
X-Large X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 39 to 43
Size XX-Large
XX-Large X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 43 to 47
ACU Jacket
Height (In)
Chest (In)
Size X-Small
X-Small XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 UP to 33
X-Small X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 UP to 33
X-Small Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 UP to 33
X-Small Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 UP to 33
X-Small Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 UP to 33
X-Small X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 UP to 33
Size Small
Small XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 33 to 37
Small X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 33 to 37
Small Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 33 to 37
Small Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 33 to 37
Small Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 33 to 37
Small X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 33 to 37
Size Medium
Medium XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 37 to 41
Medium X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 37 to 41
Medium Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 37 to 41
Medium Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 37 to 41
Medium Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 37 to 41
Medium X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 37 to 41
Medium XX-Long ACU Jacket Above 79 37 to 41
Size Large
Large XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 41 to 45
Large X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 41 to 45
Large Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 41 to 45
Large Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 41 to 45
Large Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 41 to 45
Large X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 41 to 45
Large XX-Long ACU Jacket Above 79 41 to 45
Size X-Large
X-Large XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 45 to 49
X-Large X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 45 to 49
X-Large Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 45 to 49
X-Large Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 45 to 49
X-Large Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 45 to 49
X-Large X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 45 to 49
X-Large XX-Long ACU Jacket Above 79 45 to 49
Size XX-Large
XX-Large Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 49 to 53
XX-Large Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 49 to 53
XX-Large X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 49 to 53
XX-Large XX-Long ACU Jacket Above 79 49 to 53
Then there are some arguably objective sizing charts. The US Army literally measures hundreds of thousands of people and while their "population" may not reflect the larger civilian population, it is supposed to be pretty close for their age groups. The Army does indeed have size guides listed someplace online, I think the Natick Labs used to offer that data since they were also in charge of camo patterns, whether BDU pants should have Velcro (obsoleted now) or buttons on the fly, all sorts of "garment" stuff.
From a site claiming to repeat the Army information: (and they'd call 5'7" with a 39" chest a solid MEDIUM jacket)
The size charts below are for the Army Combat Uniform. The chart shows the sizes for both the Army Combat Uniform Trousers (ACU Trousers or Pants) and also the Army Combat Uniform Jacket (ACU Jacket).
ACU Size Chart:
ACU Trousers Inseam (In) Waist (In)
Size X-Small
X-Small X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 Up to 27
X-Small XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 Up to 27
Size Small
Small X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 27 to 31
Small Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 27 to 31
Small Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 27 to 31
Small Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 27 to 31
Small X-Long ACU Trousers
35 1/2 to 38 1/2 27 to 31
Small XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 27 to 31
Size Medium
Medium X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 31 to 35
Medium Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 31 to 35
Medium Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 31 to 35
Medium Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 31 to 35
Medium X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 31 to 35
Medium XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 31 to 35
Size Large
Large X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 35 to 39
Large Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 35 to 39
Large Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 35 to 39
Large Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 35 to 39
Large X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 35 to 39
Large XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 35 to 39
Size X-Large
X-Large X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 39 to 43
X-Large XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 39 to 43
Size XX-Large
XX-Large X-Short ACU Trousers Up to 26 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large Short ACU Trousers 26 1/2 to 29 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large Regular ACU Trousers 29 1/2 to 32 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large Long ACU Trousers 32 1/2 to 35 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large X-Long ACU Trousers 35 1/2 to 38 1/2 43 to 47
XX-Large XX-Long ACU Trousers Over 38 1/2 43 to 47
ACU Jacket
Height (In)
Chest (In)
Size X-Small
X-Small XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 UP to 33
X-Small X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 UP to 33
X-Small Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 UP to 33
X-Small Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 UP to 33
X-Small Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 UP to 33
X-Small X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 UP to 33
Size Small
Small XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 33 to 37
Small X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 33 to 37
Small Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 33 to 37
Small Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 33 to 37
Small Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 33 to 37
Small X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 33 to 37
Size Medium
Medium XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 37 to 41
Medium X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 37 to 41
Medium Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 37 to 41
Medium Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 37 to 41
Medium Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 37 to 41
Medium X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 37 to 41
Medium XX-Long ACU Jacket Above 79 37 to 41
Size Large
Large XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 41 to 45
Large X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 41 to 45
Large Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 41 to 45
Large Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 41 to 45
Large Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 41 to 45
Large X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 41 to 45
Large XX-Long ACU Jacket Above 79 41 to 45
Size X-Large
X-Large XX-Short ACU Jacket 55 to 59 45 to 49
X-Large X-Short ACU Jacket 59 to 63 45 to 49
X-Large Short ACU Jacket 63 to 67 45 to 49
X-Large Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 45 to 49
X-Large Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 45 to 49
X-Large X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 45 to 49
X-Large XX-Long ACU Jacket Above 79 45 to 49
Size XX-Large
XX-Large Regular ACU Jacket 67 to 71 49 to 53
XX-Large Long ACU Jacket 71 to 75 49 to 53
XX-Large X-Long ACU Jacket 75 to 79 49 to 53
XX-Large XX-Long ACU Jacket Above 79 49 to 53
I got Henri Lloyd Gore-Tex Pro Shell Ocean Technology model Y00222 jacket, in L (large) size (off auction site, NWT, knock-down price below clearance, no returns). I am 184-186 cm tall (depends on the day 
, 83 kg weight, 100 cm chest, 85 cm waist. The above HL jacket in L size is way too big for me, it's too broad in shoulders and in waist, very long sleeves, I guess M size might fit better but the jacket lenght (as the jacket itself is not very long esp. in front). Still have to try it on salopettes, which are on the way. BTW I'm not happy with some details design of this HL ocean jacket (i.e. lack of handwarmer fleece-lined pockets, too high collar attacking your chin).
I also got some of Musto base and midlayer stuff this month (after-season sale) and what surprizes me with Musto, L (large) size is too small for me (I'll return it to the local seller), I need to go with XL (extra large) with Musto base and midlayers.
The both companies are British, Henri Lloyd Gore-Tex Pro Shell Ocean Technology garment is made in Poland, EU (HL has manufacturing factory in Brodnica, PL), while my Musto Evolution Arctec underwear is made in China and my Musto Snug Blouson (size L very, very snug fit for me) is made in Poland (EU) as well.
With my old Helly Hansen foul weather gear (dating from 1990's) I was OK with L (large) jacket and M (medium) salopettes.
So you never know :-o
, 83 kg weight, 100 cm chest, 85 cm waist. The above HL jacket in L size is way too big for me, it's too broad in shoulders and in waist, very long sleeves, I guess M size might fit better but the jacket lenght (as the jacket itself is not very long esp. in front). Still have to try it on salopettes, which are on the way. BTW I'm not happy with some details design of this HL ocean jacket (i.e. lack of handwarmer fleece-lined pockets, too high collar attacking your chin).I also got some of Musto base and midlayer stuff this month (after-season sale) and what surprizes me with Musto, L (large) size is too small for me (I'll return it to the local seller), I need to go with XL (extra large) with Musto base and midlayers.
The both companies are British, Henri Lloyd Gore-Tex Pro Shell Ocean Technology garment is made in Poland, EU (HL has manufacturing factory in Brodnica, PL), while my Musto Evolution Arctec underwear is made in China and my Musto Snug Blouson (size L very, very snug fit for me) is made in Poland (EU) as well.
With my old Helly Hansen foul weather gear (dating from 1990's) I was OK with L (large) jacket and M (medium) salopettes.
So you never know :-o
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I have two HL jackets. I don't know the models numbers/names, but one is a mid-weight foulie, with neck collar and the other is just a rain shell.
I find they fit true to my size, if I don't plan to have any underlayers. If you do plan a base layer, than one size up is necessary. Could be just me. I do have ex-linebacker shoulders, but am surprised that a European manufacturer would design for that.
I find they fit true to my size, if I don't plan to have any underlayers. If you do plan a base layer, than one size up is necessary. Could be just me. I do have ex-linebacker shoulders, but am surprised that a European manufacturer would design for that.
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Jac-
Unless a maker is being very honest AND very closely watching their suppliers, this is not unusual. Some buyers cut their sizes larger, to accomodate heavier layers. Some cut them larger to flatter customers ("Oh, I'm certainly not a XXL!") and then there's also the oldest game in the rag business.
Before laser cutters and computers, they made a brown kraft paper "pattern" for each piece of the clothing. The patterns goes to the actual contractor, who is supposed to stack up layers of cloth under the pattern and then faithfully cut the same outline in all of them, so they will be exact duplicates.
But may took the paper pattern, crumpled it up real tight,and flattened it out again. Except, it never quite goes back flat to the full original size. This is called "shrinking the maker" and it is a way that the lowest-bidder can use a little less cloth and make a little more profit with every garment. Cute, yes? (sigh)
And then in things like shoes, if you're vaguely "European", you'll find shoes and boots made in the EU, Italy, Romania...are made on lasts (molds) from real EU feet. In China and the pack rim? People and their feet are smaller, so "medium" becomes smaller, and proportioned differently.
Again, unless the brand name in charge is paying real close attention, or gives a damn.
All of which is why foulies really have to be tried on. (Unless you can convince Zappo's to sell them like the sell shoes, with free two-way shipping and a real trial period!)
Unless a maker is being very honest AND very closely watching their suppliers, this is not unusual. Some buyers cut their sizes larger, to accomodate heavier layers. Some cut them larger to flatter customers ("Oh, I'm certainly not a XXL!") and then there's also the oldest game in the rag business.
Before laser cutters and computers, they made a brown kraft paper "pattern" for each piece of the clothing. The patterns goes to the actual contractor, who is supposed to stack up layers of cloth under the pattern and then faithfully cut the same outline in all of them, so they will be exact duplicates.
But may took the paper pattern, crumpled it up real tight,and flattened it out again. Except, it never quite goes back flat to the full original size. This is called "shrinking the maker" and it is a way that the lowest-bidder can use a little less cloth and make a little more profit with every garment. Cute, yes? (sigh)
And then in things like shoes, if you're vaguely "European", you'll find shoes and boots made in the EU, Italy, Romania...are made on lasts (molds) from real EU feet. In China and the pack rim? People and their feet are smaller, so "medium" becomes smaller, and proportioned differently.
Again, unless the brand name in charge is paying real close attention, or gives a damn.
All of which is why foulies really have to be tried on. (Unless you can convince Zappo's to sell them like the sell shoes, with free two-way shipping and a real trial period!)
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