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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
From Jon Eisberg on a delivery he just did from Annapolis to the BVI:

Well, that pretty much sucked…. (sorry, folks - this is a long one)

It's worth reading.

It also should spark some interesting discussion here about a few things. For one, all these problems on a Trintella? All at the same time I found that quite surprising, yet typical (all boats have problems, no matter what the brand and no matter what anyone says).
 

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That is a great read and a cautionary tale of how our conveniences can be traps.

I am going in exactly the opposite direction getting fitted out for world cruising, and after reading this, I feel better about my decisions.
 

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Hmm... The more complicated the boat, the more stuff that can break... and making basic—very necessary—systems dependent on other more complicated ones is just asking for trouble.

Electric heads that can are plumbed to flush with fresh water only—making you dependent on a watermaker to have enough water to flush the heads... not exactly bright.

Electric furling motor died after just one reef... Think it was the main sail furling system, cause he called it a Leisure Furl.
 

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What Val said!

Interesting in so many ways. Thanks Daniel.
 

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Cope, learn, cope, learn, cope, learn...and come home with a smile.

At least he seemed to keep his sense of humor...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Seems to me almost like it was a shake down

Trintellas are real boats, not like Catalinas or a Precision Marine product, so I have a feeling, though I don't know it for sure, that this may have been a sort of shake down delivery. :D :D

I do agree with everyone that having critical systems dependent upon electrical or other highly complex systems presents a real risk. I will say this though, the two systems that have been referenced here (heads and furling boom) are not critical systems for a passage. I'm no doctor, but I'm pretty sure a broken electrical head will not preclude a three-guy crew from doing what they need to do. It may not be the most pleasant, but a bucket with salt water will work just fine.

As to the furling boom, you still can use the mainsail, it just becomes like a regular main (a problem with an in-mast system is a different story).

Anyway, the thing I found most interesting is that a $1 million boat with highly experienced crew can have the same exact order of magnitude types of troubles as a $400,000 production boat can have with a schmuck like me at the helm. :)
 

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That was fun. (reading)
 

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I saw this post by Jon Eisenberg over at the CSBB forum ( SailboatOwners.com - Latest forum activity ) where he posts from time to time. I've actually been lurking about over there for longer then I have at sailnet so I have come to really enjoy Jon Eisenberg's posts. He is a delivery captain who has written a few articles that have been published in Cruising World and has been for many years. This post is typical in it's honesty, depth of detail and sense of humor.
Having said that, does anyone want to install electric heads that require fresh water for flushing on their boats or any of the other 'fancy' products that did not work so well for them?
Jon also posted about the recent sailboat rescue just below Block Island. He was as incredulous as the rest of us were at this story Inconceivable, that someone would have departed Narragansett Bay yesterday, bound for Puerto Rico... (pic)
The irony is that he has taken his own 30+ foot sailboat down to the islands and seems to like leaving the NJ coast in the Dec/Jan time frame. He seems to be able to do it single handed without setting off his EPIRB.
 

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There is a big lure for fresh water flush...smell! And the mixture of salt water and urine can clog up hoses pretty quick. The toilet did not cause the watermaker and genset to quit but they are interdependant.
The simple solution would be for a diverter valve to allow seawater flush if fresh water became scarce and a manual flush toilet to lessen the demand for electricity.

I was suprised by the number of failures and design flaws on such an expensive boat.
 

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Having said that, does anyone want to install electric heads that require fresh water for flushing on their boats or any of the other 'fancy' products that did not work so well for them?
My wife pointed out how ridiculous this was, and I had to explain to her what a "dinghy garage" was. Her comment was: "So the only thing between you and a heavy following sea is a gasket and a hinge? Sounds idiotic!"
 

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There is a big lure for fresh water flush...smell! And the mixture of salt water and urine can clog up hoses pretty quick.


Yes, but you can fix this with vinegar rinses, periodic disassembly of the hoses and "beating" the salts out of them and so on.

To my mind, the simplicity of sea water flushing of a manual head beats the complexity, expense and power requirements of genset, watermaker and "toilet tankage".

A middle course in areas of daily rain (as is the case in much of the tropics) would be to have awnings and gaskets divert water to a "non-potable freshwater tank" from which you could divert water through the sink and head circuit...even the shower. Rainwater is plenty clean enough for this, and usually only requires filtering to get dust from the awning out of it.

One of the reasons I am changing my water tankage from two 100 gallon tanks to four 50 gallon tanks is to keep one tank as "semi-potable" for this kind of thing. But I think of it more as rinse water than drinkable water.
 

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Valiente—

My head can be flushed using the head sink contents. Since I was my hands after using the head, that means I'm not wasting fresh water... and recycling the grey water from the sink. :) Avoids the mineral deposits and the odor caused by sea life dying in the head. :)
 

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Valiente—

My head can be flushed using the head sink contents. Since I was my hands after using the head, that means I'm not wasting fresh water... and recycling the grey water from the sink. :) Avoids the mineral deposits and the odor caused by sea life dying in the head. :)
That's a good idea, too, but I'm not sure if there's enough water in the sink for this.

I have a Lavac...a great unit but it's NOT a "low-flow". Basically, the more arm action you put into it, the better the results. Actually, perhaps that will protect me from the stinkiness...the fact that it's a "pressure wash" with every use!

EDIT: You reminded me that we are more fastidious on land than on board in some ways. We flush the toilet with water left over from the shower if it's "yellow". A bucket of bath water from a three-foot height gets things moving faster than a flush and keeps the appliance cleaner as well.

I wonder if I can put a gimballed bath on board....?
 

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Seems to work pretty well for me... I just fill the head sink to the top... and then pump it dry using the head... It'd probably work even better with a Lavac. :)

That's a good idea, too, but I'm not sure if there's enough water in the sink for this.

I have a Lavac...a great unit but it's NOT a "low-flow". Basically, the more arm action you put into it, the better the results. Actually, perhaps that will protect me from the stinkiness...the fact that it's a "pressure wash" with every use!
 

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Seems to work pretty well for me... I just fill the head sink to the top... and then pump it dry using the head... It'd probably work even better with a Lavac. :)
Jeez...are you HIDING in this thread?

The plumbing is pretty simple, and I was going to rig diverter valves anyway when I put in a sump for a shower, because you can use the Henderson pump as a manual bilge pump.

Excuse me, I have to go draw another diagram.
 
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