[Yorksailor]

With the loss of the French boat 'Tao' three sailboats have sunk in the western north Atlantic in the last month! It is amazing that only 4 lives were lost.

Loss of Yacht ?Tao?

Last Fall, if memory serves me correctly, 5 boats were severely damaged in the Salty Dawg Rally!

All of these boats seem to have been in a gale while in an area where they under the influence of the Gulf Stream or its eddies.

My Dad was a British sailor in WWII and he taught me that the North Atlantic was a very bad place to be in a Gale, even in a destroyer!

Have the new generation of cruisers failed to realize how dangerous this area of the Atlantic can be?

It would be beneficial if this forum developed a 'read only' thread that records all the sailboat losses and rescues in cruising and racing boats.

 

[Donna_F]

Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger - SailNet Community

Why "read only"?

 

[Yorksailor]

It needs to to be 'read only' so that it is true source of information and not filled with ill informed comment.

 

[MarkofSeaLife]

The first source of information is often media reports with few details written by a non sailing journalist.
The true information only comes out in fits and spurts over a period of time and can still be erroneous.

Some "ill informed comment" can be spot on. Only critical analysis of that comment can prove which is, indeed, ill informed.

For instance the link you posted re Tao says: "I should state that we have not verified any of this information".

 

[Don L]

The first source of information is often media reports with few details written by a non sailing journalist.

And then unfortunately supplemented with sailor conjecture.

 

[capttb]

so that it is true source of information and not filled with ill informed comment

While perhaps admirable it doesn't sound like anyplace I've seen on a sailing forum.

 

[Yorksailor]

Mark,

I am not trying to stifle debate but suggesting that there should be a central, concise source of information about sinkings and rescues. It would not be hard for the owners/moderators to create such a useful database.

You yourself wrote how you 'sail smart' by avoiding dangerous areas and times of the year...A reliable database could be used to illustrate the wisdom of the approach or at least the lack of wisdom in getting into the Gulf Stream in a gale.

Phil

 

[Donna_F]

Are you suggesting something like this table but for recreational and race boats?

 

[MarkofSeaLife]

Are you suggesting something like this table but for recreational and race boats?

]

A sticky thread at the top of the Sunk Boats forum would be good with limited details like name and date of incident. But it would need to be a Moderator only written thread or others would start discussion in there.

For it to be expanded with a bit of detail of the incident would take a fair bit of moderator work, and as they are not getting paid - and the Admins here appear scarce - it may be a hard ask.

An example: Bounty sank. Thats easy, it sank... But WHY it sank took 6 months to for the USCG to determine. (Funnily enough the thread on this form predicted each and every point brought out in the hearings and a summation of the thread could have been used as the reports fundings!)

In general, I think the new sunk, missing boat forum, when kept to one thread per incident, will provide an excellent resource in years to come.
Adding the date and vessel name to the subject box of the existing threads would be good too.

Indeed, I find some of the other forum users posts to be highly instructive and the good ones I read very carefully.

 

[Kostis]

To me honest as supplement it would not be a bad idea

 

[Yorksailor]

Donna,

Yes, if the Forum became a definitive source of such information with links to news and official reports I think it would be of great utility to the sailing/cruising community and might well increase traffic to the site.

Audited analysis of such reports by informed and qualified members would also be very useful for the cruising community...I read K. Adlard Coles' analyses of heavy weather sailing disasters for 2 years before I ever set foot on a sailboat!

Heavy Weather Sailing: K. Adlard Coles, Peter Bruce: 9780070117327: Amazon.com: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51GJG603PHL

Phil

 

[Donna_F]

...

Audited analysis of such reports by informed and qualified members would also be very useful for the cruising community...

Whenever there's a discussion everyone accuses everyone else of being an armchair sailor! I shudder to think of the backlash when certain "informed and qualified members" are chosen over other "informed and qualified members" to provide analysis.

Andrew's at the dentist today. I'll let him know that he's nominated to get this endeavor off the ground.

 

[Donna_F]

Donna,

Yes, if the Forum became a definitive source of such information with links to news and official reports I think it would be of great utility to the sailing/cruising community and might well increase traffic to the site.

...

Sometimes it takes months to a year or so for an official report to be made public. And if it's public, there already is a site containing all the reports. Could we compromise and try to get a closed post that contains links to sites that contain the reports?

Thinking out loud as I read through this thread.

 

[jameswilson29]

The nature of internet forums is to allow the free exchange of information for purposes of discussion, entertainment, and education.

Why are there certain elements that wish to censor the spirit of free speech and decide what speech is permitted? As long as you are not defaming someone, which is virtually impossible unless he or she is actually identifiable, you should be able to write whatever you want.

Argument is the way to expose the truth, not selective censorship.

Rather than assign this task to others, why don't you start your own blog entitled "Non-ill Informed Comments About Wrecks and Such". You could spend hours cataloguing all the rescues.

 

[Donna_F]

Still thinking.

Maybe it's me, but I don't think this, or any forum, can become the "definitive source" for anything. I and the other mods, I'm sure, welcome any suggestion to keep the forum relevant but in this case pretty much what you are asking is that the moderators become data collectors. I can't see that happening, especially when there are official sites that already collect the data.

(mod hat off)

I think it was a good idea to create the separate forum to hold the accident threads and the value to me is the discussion attached to each thread. The back and forth that forces me to think and approach things logically; to work out what I think I would do if I was in that situation. If I want to see a list of mishaps, the CG already has that. If I want to read analysis, every boating magazine on the stands usually covers the major accidents. What I need as a forum member, and obviously this isn't what you're asking for here, is to be able to ask questions and bounce ideas off of the other forum members. Even the new boaters have something to add, some other approach that may or may not be useful or viable but at least it has me (and hopefully them) thinking and for me, anything that keeps me thinking and planning and readjusting expectations makes the sailing experience continually fun and exciting even when I'm off the boat. Most importantly, potentially safer.

YMMV.

 

[outbound]

would it be possible for the original post to be repetitively modified as "official information" became available.
Envision a "forum" with each original post containing the "just the facts ma am" and opinion to follow. That way a surfer could see what's been going on and when and where looking at just the OPs but dummies like me could learn from the discussions.

 

[nolatom]

I do not always resist the impulse to sail someone else's boat for them ("that jib halyard should be tighter" --- "ease out, man, you're on a broad reach!) while safely out of earshot.

And I do the same here, but am well aware it's "armchair" so I have respect for those who were out there.

Aren't there already such lists somewhere? If not, are we the ones to make one? I tend to think our "case by case" comments on sinkings are the best way to go, warts and all, without too many (stinkin' ;-) rules...

 

[outbound]

BTW- I've yet to figure out a way to get to the Caribe or back without crossing the western north Atlantic gyre. I've yet to find an insurance company that will let me be in the Caribe from june 1 to nov 1. So think many are forced to cross the stream twice a year when gales/storms may occur.

 

[Donna_F]

would it be possible for the original post to be repetitively modified as "official information" became available.
Envision a "forum" with each original post containing the "just the facts ma am" and opinion to follow. That way a surfer could see what's been going on and when and where looking at just the OPs but dummies like me could learn from the discussions.

You mean add a link to the official report once it becomes available? Perhaps put it in the first post?

 

[MarkofSeaLife]

You mean add a link to the official report once it becomes available? Perhaps put it in the first post?

What official report?

The only ones that will get an official repot published will be when deaths occur, arn't they? Is Rebel Heart up for a court hearing? I wouldnt think so.

Any who does Tao's? The French? Try tracking that report down.