SailNet Community banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Glad I found Sailnet
Joined
·
3,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We have a Beneteau 505. She's a 28,000 pounds USCG documented vessel. There is a plaque on her that says "12 12 14". Does any Beneteau owner out there know what that means?

I'm guessing it means 14 people when operated non-commercially, 12 people when operated commercially, and 12 people if discussing something Off-Topic in smallish waves within 20 miles of shore. But that's just a guess.

Also, do I have to follow this rule while at anchor? Or is this limitation only when underway?
 

·
Old Fart
Joined
·
514 Posts
documented vessel

As the owner of a documented vessel of approximately the same size I've never heard of any requirements related to how many persons I can have on board. Perhaps if your boat was previously in charter service there could be some relationship there but I doubt it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
On my 361, there is a plaque in the cockpit that specifies the "Maximum recommended number of persons on board by design category:", which is 8, 8, 10, 12 for A, B, C, D. From the owners manual, the categories are:

A - Wave Height > 4m - Wind Force (Beaufort) > 8
B - Wave Height < 4m - Wind Force (Beaufort) <= 8
C - Wave Height < 2m - Wind Force (Beaufort) <= 6
D - Wave Height < 0.5m - Wind Force (Beaufort) <= 4

Is that what you are seeing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
We have a Beneteau 505. She's a 28,000 pounds USCG documented vessel. There is a plaque on her that says "12 12 14". Does any Beneteau owner out there know what that means?

I'm guessing it means 14 people when operated non-commercially, 12 people when operated commercially, and 12 people if discussing something Off-Topic in smallish waves within 20 miles of shore. But that's just a guess.

Also, do I have to follow this rule while at anchor? Or is this limitation only when underway?
I think it is more dependent on how many life jackets you have. I am not aware of a person max on larger vessels. I could be wrong. The USCG is the place to go to get the absolute answer on this.

- CD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
When you say operated commercially, do you mean taking people on board who pay you to do so?
If so then the answer is probably 6 paying passengers as I imagine that this, being a production boat, is uninspected. If the vessel is inspected there will be a plaque, posted in plain sight, that list the allowable number of passengers for different circumstances.
 

·
Glad I found Sailnet
Joined
·
3,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the fast replies!

Dwayne - yes, I believe she was in the Moorings fleet at one point. I'm hoping you are right that there is no number that I need to stick to, especially at anchor. Otherwise our 11'6" dink holds about 1/2 of the number of people that our big boat is rated for.

KDG -- yes, I think that it is by wave height.

'Dad -- we have a ton of life jackets. I have never counted all of them, guess I should. Some are not USGC approved but look to be from Europe or someplace - they probably aren't legal but they look sturdy and very bouyant so it's tough to throw them out. But rather to keep them as extras. And we have the space. I've been thinking about asking for a USCG safety check, so I could ask the "12 12 14" question then maybe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
These are CE Design categories and must be visible on CE certified boats.

The design categories are:


A: OCEAN -- Designed for extended voyages where condition may exceed wind
force 8 (Beaufort scale) and wave height of 4 m (13.0 ft)


B; OFFSHORE -- Designed for offshore where conditions up to, and including,
wind force 8 and wave height up to, and including, 13.0 ft.


C: INSHORE -- Designed for voyages in coastal waters, large bays. estuaries,
lakes and river where condition up to, and including wind force 6 and wave
height up to 6' 6" feet.


D: SHELTERED WATER-- Designed for small lakes, river and canals up to wind
force 4 and wave height of 1'6" feet.


Thus at sea you can have 12 people aboard unless inshore, when you can have 14. All this without exceeded the gross weight limits (which are also placarded).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,856 Posts
Dad, The question is how many people can I put on my charter boat. This gets in to, is the vessel Inspected or UNinspected. Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel or the OUVP license is what is refereed to a 6 pack license. The license limits you to only 6 passengers it also has restrictions of navigation areas such as, Inland, Near Coastal. It will also have restrictions on tonnage. 25 or 50 starting out is not unusual.

A Master's License is needed if you wish to carry more than 6 passengers. But then You Must have the vessel Inspected. The Coast Guard will or will not issue a COI. You COI (certificate of Inspection) will tell how many passengers you may carry and that can be different for day passengers and over night passengers. It will also tell where you can take passengers. Inland, bays and harbors, NO more than 20 miles from a safe port is not uncommon language to see on a COI.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,856 Posts
Bene505, Your boat may be documented but as most boats it is probably documented as a recreational vessel. You must have the documentation changed to a Commercial vessel in order to do charters.

Safety equipment, those $5 Orange vests. You can throw them away as they are not "commercial" vests and The Coast Guard will not accept them on a commercial vessel which your will be once you start running charters.

If all of this is coming a surprise to you, you have seen nothing yet. Wait till you go shopping for Insurance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Ah, I thought he was just asking how many people he could have on board. I did not know this was about chartering - I thought he was only referring to his plaque since he purchased the boat from a charter company.

My bad.

- CD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Bene505, Your boat may be documented but as most boats it is probably documented as a recreational vessel. You must have the documentation changed to a Commercial vessel in order to do charters.

It may not be necessary to have the vessel documented as commercial if he is just going to do 6 pack charters. I have chartered on fishing boats in Florida many times and none of them have been commercially documented. I also took an ASA course once and the boat we used was not commercially documented. Besides who wants to paint 4" high block letters on the bow of their boat anyways.
If the boat is not inspected it could be very cost prohibitive to have it done. I have been told that it is cheaper to by a used inspected vessel than to try to have an uninspected production vessel inspected after construction is completed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,856 Posts
ARE THERE DIFFERENT TYPES OF DOCUMENTATION?

Yes. A Certificate of Documentation may be endorsed for fishery, coastwise, registry, or recreation. Any documented vessel may be used for recreational purposes, regardless of its endorsement, but a vessel documented with a recreational endorsement only may not be used for any other purpose. Registry endorsements

USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, FAQ Page
 

·
Glad I found Sailnet
Joined
·
3,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I want to invite Sailnet-ers on board Saturday night for some rum and beers. All Sailnet-ers that can attend are invited, (unless they are from Texas and have already drank all my ready-made Margaritas). So the motivation for the question is really about recreational use.

At anchor, can I have 20 people on board?

Do I still need 20 life jackets to do that or it it only underway?

Do the jackets in our dinghy count as being "on board" (we keep 6 in the dinghy at all times)?

The other answers are a BIG help, since I do plan on chartering (6 pack) in the future. I've been reading the captain's license book that I bought and I'm loving all the good information I'm learning.

(Only I have the Third Edition)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,856 Posts
I want to invite Sailnet-ers on board Saturday night for some rum and beers. All Sailnet-ers that can attend are invited, (unless they are from Texas and have already drank all my ready-made Margaritas). So the motivation for the question is really about recreational use.

At anchor, can I have 20 people on board?

Do I still need 20 life jackets to do that or it it only underway?

Do the jackets in our dinghy count as being "on board" (we keep 6 in the dinghy at all times)?

The other answers are a BIG help, since I do plan on chartering (6 pack) in the future. I've been reading the captain's license book that I bought and I'm loving all the good information I'm learning.
Bene
a boat at anchor is considered underway not making way. If they are non paying passengers then the answer is yes. If they are paying then you would need a master's license and COI that says you can have 20 people on the boat.

Life jackets only count for the total of vessel on where they are located.
 

·
Glad I found Sailnet
Joined
·
3,842 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
bubb2,

Thanks for the answers. I'm surprised by the "at anchor" answer. Does that count for on a mooring? Tied to a dock? (It doesn't matter though, I'm not getting paid for any of this.)

I'm not surprised by the dinghy answer. If we need more lifejackets on board, I'll grab the 6 from the dinghy (on a painter usually).

Regards
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top