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Just One and he's gone. Dead at 47 with no underlying conditions after being on ventilator for 2 weeks. Seemed as though from what we heard that family thought he was getting better before having some kind of relapse and expiring. Maybe the family was not well informed as to the actual condition. Hard to say, but devastating for them. I can only imagine but I think that losing a child has got to be one of the worst experiences one could go through and having to go through it with no funeral or ceremony probably compounds the grief.
 

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Master Mariner
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To answer the first half of your question, if people show up at an emergency room without life threatening symptoms, yes they are being sent home without testing in order to allow the facility and limited supplies to be used for more urgent cases and admissions. The term for this is called medical triage.
Once again, your post does not relate to the subject I posted.
I specifically stated that the people posting had symptoms and were refused tests. I also stated that this is first hand anecdotal evidence, so take it as you wish, but it does no good to argue with me over it.
As for the nursing homes, all I can say to your post is, duh! I actually have one, so I don't need a lecture from you. I doubt anybody these days doesn't know what a DNR notice is.
But that wasn't the post. The post was that many of these deaths are not being reported as C-19 deaths, because nobody bothers to ascertain the cause of death. Imagine what the numbers would look like if these were added to the tallies?
 

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Discussion Starter #24
We are already seeing how this all shakes out. We've got nearly ½ a million confirmed cases and a thousand or so dying each day! There were countries (Japan & Korea) that got it right, so why did the US not follow suit? It's pretty obvious that whatever the US is doing is very costly in lives. In my opinion, the richest and according to some on here, the country with the best health care on the planet, has failed this test miserably!
I'm not going to argue the veracity of the numbers with you. I've personally seen countries, including the US, under report casualty figures since Vietnam. Why they do it I cannot say, but I know for a fact that they do.
As for the lack of testing, if folks aren't tested it doesn't matter whether they recover or not if they are out and about spreading the disease, until they can no longer do that, and we still don't know that point. That is why everybody should be tested and the positives separated from those not. That is how both Korea and Japan nipped this thing in the bud.
Like the Prime Minister in Grenada keeps saying, "It's not about money, it's about lives!" I wish the US had a leader who felt that way.


You are right it’s about the leadership. The hospitals and medicine are not the issue. It was choosing to ignore the signs in Nov, Dec , Jan, Feb to stop the influx. Once it was here it was the delay in distancing which was only accomplished not on the federal level but by responsible governors.

Not recognizing there was a problem
Not putting people in charge of the distribution of supplies who know what
To do
Not doing distancing on a federal level
Not placing saving lives over the economics
Not marshaling the supply chain requiring production of materials
Making states compete with each other and the feds for supplies
Not showing command of the issue and allowing the experts to determine
The policy

The fault for spreading lies with a segment population for not taking it seriously. While most, I bet 80% took distancing seriously the 20% left can ruin it it for everyone else. There appears to be no consequences

You can point the figure at the whole US like you usually do, but most of the governors have stepped up. That’s a positive. The medical field has stepped up...that’s a positive. The vaccine will be developed from the US companies, that’s a positive. The production eventually of the vaccine and test kits will come from US companies. I don’t see Grenada in the forefront of anything which makes it better for people around the world.

I often wonder why you don’t give back your US citizenship and apply for one of the third world countries you traverse.

However it was apparent even third world government were in your target zone for not policing a woman walking her dog on the beach. You were panicked. Imagine in the scale of things on what many of us see people we know or in our communities breaking the distancing rules or know friends who have the scourge. Now that is something to really get upset about. We are in the middle of the dying and sickness. Not pointing out the failure from an anchorage far away.

We will have time to point fingers when the time comes, when we can stop worrying about the elderly dying in nursing homes, when we can stop stocking bodies in tractor trailers. Many of us know who / where the breakdown occurring in taking this seriously and showing proper leadership.
We have examples of good leadership so it’s easy to spot poor.

Pardon us for not worrying about the incidentals And finger pointing and instead focusing on the number one priority for those in the middle of it.....lives. Not dogs on the beach, not leadership, not even economics....it’s lives which are most important. There will be plenty of time for finger pointing afterwards.
 

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Learning the HARD way...
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Adding one more to the list; my friend's mother's roommate in an assisted living facility. Also in MA.

Frankly it astounds me that my wife's cousin hasn't been and won't be tested. She is neither rich, nor famous which seem to be two of the primary requirements for being tested. In her job, which she needs in order to maintain health insurance, she MUST interact with customers, and if she is contagious, she will likely spread the virus to unsuspecting clients. My wife and I went to our local bank in Florida and both withdrew the maximum allowed through the ATM on 3/23. I am VERY glad that we did this.

While I don't believe that there is either the bandwidth, nor the available tests to test everybody, I do believe that RANDOMIZED testing and extrapolation of the data to better understand how Covid-19 affects the general population is possible. There are enough people out of work that could collect the samples to provide data to model of how prevalent the virus really is. Right now the reported number of REPORTED cases in the USA, 455243, is far below what the ACTUAL number is.

Very sorry to learn of @contrarian's loss
 

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Master Mariner
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I often wonder why you don’t give back your US citizenship and apply for one of the third world countries you traverse. .
Yes, I certainly got lucky, being here and not there, which is exactly why I (and others) got so upset by the woman/dog thing. I don't want to be forced to go up there to that mismanaged mess. I'd surely die. No respirator for me, here or there and my chances are better of not contracting C-19 here.
As for citizenship, it's been quite a while since I was proud to be an American. With Obama's election I had hope, but alas, now it's just plain embarrassing to be a citizen of the country that elected the current president.
At this point I would love citizenship here or St. V, but it is well beyond my means, economically, (got an extra us$150k+ you don't need?) Did you know that voter turn out down here in both countries is over 80%? Don't you think that's pretty impressive?
 

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Testing everybody included deceased individuals doesn’t make any logical sense. .
I guess Korea and Japan are very fortunate you didn't have a say in their efforts to nip this pandemic in the bud.
In a catastrophe like this, it is the results that matter, not opinions or guess work.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Yes, I certainly got lucky, being here and not there, which is exactly why I (and others) got so upset by the woman/dog thing. I don't want to be forced to go up there to that mismanaged mess. I'd surely die. No respirator for me, here or there and my chances are better of not contracting C-19 here.
As for citizenship, it's been quite a while since I was proud to be an American. With Obama's election I had hope, but alas, now it's just plain embarrassing to be a citizen of the country that elected the current president.
At this point I would love citizenship here or St. V, but it is well beyond my means, economically, (got an extra us$150k+ you don't need?) Did you know that voter turn out down here in both countries is over 80%? Don't you think that's pretty impressive?
So what earth shattering decisions do the 80% decide on....which Marley song to play?......which coconut to have for dinner? .....whether or not to take aid from the US? No wonder most vote. The choices must be so tough.

When ever there is a disaster in the world the US....is there to help. Never have is seen Grenada. It took the US invasion under Reagan to restore democracy in Grenada which had been taken over by a Revolutionary council and was systematically imprisoning political dissidents. The Grenadines still celebrate it today as Thanksgiving Day in appreciation for the US help.
 

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Captain Obvious
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I don't know a single person with it. That I know of.

But the local news so remarkably opaque about this that I suspect people in my town are hiding their diagnosis.
 

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Captain Obvious
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I keep reading stories of people presenting symptoms but being refused testing and sent home to quarantine themselves in the US, some more than once.
Though obviously anecdotal, they are so prevalent on facebook and some forums, I have no doubt that they are true.
I know personally a person who had symptoms but just could not get tested - and he went to the drive through testing center in Rockland County NY.

After a while he just got better and figured he was fine. He still has no idea if he had it.

I know a couple of people in NYC (florists) who think they lost their sense of smell but they can't get tested.
 

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So what earth shattering decisions do the 80% decide on....which Marley song to play?......which coconut to have for dinner? .....whether or not to take aid from the US? No wonder most vote. The choices must be so tough.

When ever there is a disaster in the world the US....is there to help. Never have is seen Grenada. It took the US invasion under Reagan to restore democracy in Grenada which had been taken over by a Revolutionary council and was systematically imprisoning political dissidents. The Grenadines still celebrate it today as Thanksgiving Day in appreciation for the US help.
They vote for the same things you and I vote for and they have apparently chosen a much better leader than the American people have.
I sincerely doubt whether any of the EC countries are counting on any future help from the US after watching the dismal response by the US for the American citizens in PR after Irma/Maria. If the US won't help it's own, only a moron would expect any help from the US in the future.
 
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Zero. I'm in New York and have friends in DC but, no one I know has it. Though I think I may have had it in late January. Came down with a Flu like condition after traveling. First time in decades I was that knocked out. Would like to get tested to see if I had developed some anti bodies. Contacted a research hospital doing research but, have not heard back yet. Talk is authorities are thinking of implementing testing to allow those who may have the antibodies to be able to start getting back to work as part of getting the economy working again. Keeping an eye for when that becomes available.
Same here. I could have written your post, except it was early March.
After about 3 days with fever, chills and lots of stiffness , in the middle of the night I thought I might be a goner.
24 hours later, I had improved a lot. A week later, I felt fine with nothing but a leftover cough to clean out my lungs.
74 years old, asthma as a kid, pneumonia at age 14.
If I can get an antibody test, I will donate plasma ! O+ universal donor.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
They vote for the same things you and I vote for and they have apparently chosen a much better leader than the American people have.
I sincerely doubt whether any of the EC countries are counting on any future help from the US after watching the dismal response by the US for the American citizens in PR after Irma/Maria. If the US won't help it's own, only a moron would expect any help from the US in the future.
Again tied to our leadership
 

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Although both my wife (RN) and myself (MD) , unlike administrators, had daily patient contact we are now retired. We have friends/colleagues still in practice who have gotten ill. If you think being retired puts you off the at risk population that’s just not true. It’s with great sadness I post about the death of a truly fine man.

Fellow Salty Dawgs,

It is with great sadness that I pass along the news that one of our Members succumbed yesterday to the coronavirus. Mark Laser of s/v Paradox passed away in a Miami hospital. His wife Amy was nearby and has flown to be with their children in Boston. Mark was a physician, as is Amy. He was far too young - only 62.

Mark and Amy were anchored off (French) St. Martin when Mark started to experience some cold-like symptoms. He progressed to more serious symptoms, and needed local EMTs to carry him off the boat, and to a local clinic. He was tested for COVID-19, but the analysis of the test had to be done in Guadeloupe. His tests came back positive and his condition worsened, so he was airlifted from St. Martin to a hospital in Guadeloupe in late March. Shortly after, his condition became so severe he was airlifted to Miami with the help of the US Embassy in Guadeloupe. In Miami he was placed in intensive care, intubated and declared in critical condition. Two days later he was said to be in stable condition. The last update a few days ago said he was in a medical coma, but his oxygen levels were improving. Then the news yesterday. Terribly sad.

We are in the middle of a dangerous situation. This can affect anyone, so please be extra careful and cautious. Stay safe! -- Hank

Hank George, President
Salty Dawg Sailing Association


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Discussion Starter #37
Although both my wife (RN) and myself (MD) , unlike administrators, had daily patient contact we are now retired. We have friends/colleagues still in practice who have gotten ill. If you think being retired puts you off the at risk population that’s just not true. It’s with great sadness I post about the death of a truly fine man.

Fellow Salty Dawgs,

It is with great sadness that I pass along the news that one of our Members succumbed yesterday to the coronavirus. Mark Laser of s/v Paradox passed away in a Miami hospital. His wife Amy was nearby and has flown to be with their children in Boston. Mark was a physician, as is Amy. He was far too young - only 62.

Mark and Amy were anchored off (French) St. Martin when Mark started to experience some cold-like symptoms. He progressed to more serious symptoms, and needed local EMTs to carry him off the boat, and to a local clinic. He was tested for COVID-19, but the analysis of the test had to be done in Guadeloupe. His tests came back positive and his condition worsened, so he was airlifted from St. Martin to a hospital in Guadeloupe in late March. Shortly after, his condition became so severe he was airlifted to Miami with the help of the US Embassy in Guadeloupe. In Miami he was placed in intensive care, intubated and declared in critical condition. Two days later he was said to be in stable condition. The last update a few days ago said he was in a medical coma, but his oxygen levels were improving. Then the news yesterday. Terribly sad.

We are in the middle of a dangerous situation. This can affect anyone, so please be extra careful and cautious. Stay safe! -- Hank

Hank George, President
Salty Dawg Sailing Association


Donate here
Sorry for your and our loss.
It’s real when it hits home nearby

The islands are not safe as the virus knows no borders. It may be a delayed infestation but it will occur eventually unless there is immunization. That’s a ways off.

Best you can do is maintain distance.
 

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This sounds like Sean Hannity style rubbish... look at how many people are dying... and all the temporary morgues allover the place.
Very few autopsies are being conducted and underlying conditions are pushed aside.

"Dr. Birx on Tuesday told a reporter during a Coronavirus task force briefing, “We’ve taken a very liberal approach to mortality.”
“Can you talk about your concerns about deaths being misreported by Coronavirus because of either testing or standards for how they are characterized?” the reporter asked Birx.
“If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death,” Bir
x said."

In an ironic twist some doctors are starting to question the use of ventilators may actually be hurting some patients.
"As health officials around the world push to get more ventilators to treat coronavirus patients, some doctors are moving away from using the breathing machines when they can.

The reason: Some hospitals have reported unusually high death rates for coronavirus patients on ventilators, and some doctors worry that the machines could be harming certain patients."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-coronavirus-ventilator-death-rate-20200408-qewfe64tu5c7rel6tsh5gov44m-story.htmlhttps://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-coronavirus-ventilator-death-rate-20200408-qewfe64tu5c7rel6tsh5gov44m-story.html

My gal has informed me to not have her be put on a ventilator should she come down with the COVID-19 virus and require hospitalization. She is also concerned with ICU induced dementia from being on the ventilator. Personally avoiding a hospital is something to strive for virus or no virus.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
First I’ve heard ventilators cause this or hurt them.
They don’t go on them until they cannot breathe on their own.
It’s the last step of treatment. Not SOP
very few recover from being on the ventilator , but it must be tried or death occurs

Most of us at a certain age have living wills with resuscitation orders as well as unusual means to keep us alive. My wife and I do. However we would want to be on the ventilator because over 15% survive it appears.
 

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Three weeks ago my insurance company required blood work and a doctor's office visit to maintain my thyroid medication. Trust me going to a hospital for blood work (the only choice here) and a doctor's office were the last places I wanted to be, and you have to wonder about the requirement.

My doctor was separating possible virus patients from "routine visits". Those who thought they had the virus were directed by a sign on the door to take a seat outside and call on their cell phone. A nurse would go out to them with a mask, take their temperature and record their symptoms. Those patients were seen in a separate exam room.

My doctor told me he'd seen patients that he was sure had the virus, but he'd had to send them home to self-quarantine because he only had 10 tests and had to save them for the those patients presenting the most serious symptoms. So there are definitely more cases than have been reported.

He did mention that he'd seen a lot of people with the flu who assumed they had the virus. So not everyone who thinks they've had it has had it.

Thankfully I don't know anyone so far who's had a positive diagnosis. I worry about family members who are nurses and first responders, about two life-long friends who work in the local hospital and about my wife who has asthma.

We have been lucky so far here in the Keys. There are only 47 confirmed cases so far and three deaths.

I hope our luck holds.
 
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