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Discussion Starter #1
So I take this guy out on his boat last sat. This is is second lesson and from his point of view his last. Just a final check, more of fun sat sail than a real lesson, at least that is what he tells me.

The goal is that he has a couple lady friends he is planning on impressing on Sunday. The difference is that the current in the Connecticut river is whipping this time and it is really blowing. We decide to put in the reef at the mooring which takes quite a while as he bought 1/8" Dacron for a reefing line and ran it wrong. we got that straightened out and he left the mooring.

1. He got within about two feet of a moored boat and didn't notice as he was looking where his bow was going not the stern.

2. We are heading for the bridge and have to turn around as the bridge was not going to open for a while. He made a hard turn without looking for the powerboat behind him. The powerboat had to give way.

3. We are waiting for the bridge and is pointed away from the bridge at about two knots. I point out to him that the bridge is getting closer and closer. He didn't look behind and see the current was actually making him go backwards.

4. We decide to roll out the jib and the sheets were run all wrong and had to be all fixed.

5. We are heading East towards Niantic Bay an I put him on a course for an hour or so and figure I'll lay down for a couple minutes, I'm pooped at this point.
After about half hour I check the gps and see he is heading directly for Black Point.
Now I'm a little pissed. I told him that if it wan't his boat he would be fired for changing course without notifying the guy with the chart. He said he wanted to see the beach better an thought he was a safe distance off. I asked him how he could know that without looking at the chart.

6. We turn around and are headed for the Saybrook entrance. He didn't seem to get that even though it looked like he was headed for the Breakwater lighthouse two things were happening. First the light house was not his side of the channel and second even though his bow was pointed that way the boat was going about 30 degrees down current.

7. During the sail we noticed that one side of the lazy jacks were broken. Once we got back to mooring I looked into it. I then noticed that he had take the topping lift off the mast and wrapped it around a stay and used it for a flag halyard. That apparently had fouled the lazy jacks and broken one.

I called today and apparently he took his two lady friends out successfully, I don't know how.

I would normally have check the rigging more carefully but I had just sailed the boat the week before and everything was ok. It never occurred to me someone would completely derig their boat.

Live and learn. I wonder if this guy will figure it out before he hurts someone?
 
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Well..if he was paying attention he learned a lot of things that day. He just gave you a few more white hairs in the process.
 

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I called today and apparently he took his two lady friends out successfully, I don't know how.
sounds sucessful to me.

Did he get a root? That would have been worth a tip.


Mark :)
 

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Over Hill Sailing Club
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Maybe there should be some sort of mandatory warning pennant for boat owners such as this. Sounds like you did well to keep from throwing him in the brig:) Some folks are just not cut out to do certain things. Maybe he'll figure that out before causing damage to himself or someone else.
 
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He's fortunate to have found you as a teacher.

Regards,
Brad
 

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I hope he does not read sailnet forums :)
 

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Dave, were you being compensated? I read that you go out with lots of other folks. Being compensated or not, do you ever feel like you could be blamed for things that go sideways because you are "supposed to know being the new guy helper". Either way, if a dope on his own boat does contrary to what you suggest, (which might put all of you in peril or damage the boat) I'd never go out with him again.
 

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He's fortunate to have found you as a teacher.

Regards,
Brad
Ah... Well... I'd say David's more fortunate to no longer have the fellow as a "student". All things considered, I suspect his yachting will be short lived, hopefully with no injuries/damages to innocent bystanders.
 
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Closet Powerboater
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Sounds like a list of mistakes I've made myself at one time or another. Hard to say if he is one of those folks that never pays much attention to anything, or if he was just green and learned a lot. Hoping for the latter...

MedSailor
 

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I'm not sure I'd want to drive on the same highway as that guy.
You do, he's the one texting with one hand and munching a burger with the other while steering with his knee.

:rolleyes:
 

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On further consideration this thought comes to mind. We who have many years of sailing can easily overlook just how complicated it is. What has become second nature to many of us can appear deceptively easy. Now in my sophomore year and still making the occasional mistake (whether in rigging or operation) I have come to appreciate just how much time and dedication is required to become a sailer.

I took a couple out over the weekend who have sailed with me before a couple of times. It was a pretty normal day with nothing out of the ordinary happening. But about an hour into the sail, I heard the wife comment that she was amazed at how many things I as the skipper had to manage to make the boat go. I took it as a compliment but I also pondered early days when I too found it overwhelming at times.

All of that to say that I think two lessons dismally insufficient for anyone to think they are ready to take others out. I am in no position to be a teacher of sailing but if I were working with a true newbie on their second sail, I would look everything over carefully and monitor each minute of the experience. If this would be unacceptable to the student, it would be the last time I or anyone I care about sail with them.
 

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This guy is failing the common sense test.

I don't think I'd get in a car he was driving:)

Your a good man David, better than me for sure!
 

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On further consideration this thought comes to mind. We who have many years of sailing can easily overlook just how complicated it is. What has become second nature to many of us can appear deceptively easy. Now in my sophomore year and still making the occasional mistake (whether in rigging or operation) I have come to appreciate just how much time and dedication is required to become a sailer.

I took a couple out over the weekend who have sailed with me before a couple of times. It was a pretty normal day with nothing out of the ordinary happening. But about an hour into the sail, I heard the wife comment that she was amazed at how many things I as the skipper had to manage to make the boat go. I took it as a compliment but I also pondered early days when I too found it overwhelming at times.

All of that to say that I think two lessons dismally insufficient for anyone to think they are ready to take others out. I am in no position to be a teacher of sailing but if I were working with a true newbie on their second sail, I would look everything over carefully and monitor each minute of the experience. If this would be unacceptable to the student, it would be the last time I or anyone I care about sail with them.
I also bring out friends sailing. That use to be fine. I remember ....

But, sailing is simple. Really, really simple. That's why it has been going on for 1000's of years. It wasn't simplier then, oh no.

Problems described here in this thread are not technical, they are cultural, behavioural and so on.

This is as usual, the technical issues are easily solved, wheras the management and social aspects may never really be solvable.

/J
 

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Riding a horse is simple no? Putting an inexperienced person on a horse can still lead to disaster.

I think a lot can be known about a person in watching them in an unfamilliar environment. If he's new, it's forgivable not to know about current pushing you bakwards, but did you observe him learning from these experiences? I'd rather take someone green who is a quick study aboard than someone who never seems to get it, but has a little bit of experience.

MedSailor
 

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The unfortunate fact is that few sail training programs--or instructors--seem to give "maintaining situational awareness" the importance it deserves/needs for students. Unlike highways/roads with which most are familiar, on the water a threat/another boat can come at one from any direction. Accordingly, one's head needs be on a swivel looking forward, from side to side, and behind. Absent doing so, one can quite accidentally tack into the path of an over-taking boat and if that boat happens to be powered and moving at any speed...well...

We have most often been threatened by overtaking boats, particularly in narrow channels where our maneuvering options are limited but the collisions we've seen have most often occurred on open water when Fred Farkel unexpectedly turned into Joe Dokes path.

An important, under emphasized, rule is "Get Your Head Out'a The Boat!"
 

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or away from the chartplotter and gazillion gizmos at the wheel...jajaja
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Dave, were you being compensated? I read that you go out with lots of other folks. Being compensated or not, do you ever feel like you could be blamed for things that go sideways because you are "supposed to know being the new guy helper". Either way, if a dope on his own boat does contrary to what you suggest, (which might put all of you in peril or damage the boat) I'd never go out with him again.
That is actually the funny part.
I was compensated for the time before this event.

This time he invited my wife and I as "friends". I had nothing else planned and it was my wife's birthday and he said he knew what he was doing I figured why not.

I took a little literary licence, everything I mentioned happened but was in deed looking out pretty sharp more than I let on. I let him go down the wrong path a few times so I would have the opportunity to rank on him still giving myself some time to grab the wheel if necessary.

That is the problem with sailing, and much of life, that the judgement of risk is so subjective.

For example I was sailing with a very experienced lady on her own boat. We were motoring into the wind pretty close to a lee shore on the way to a channel.

I mentioned to her that I usually would go out a little further and give myself a little more room even though that would mean I would have to spend time going out a quarter mile then comming back the quarter mile. My thinking is that if the engine failed I wanted the extra 10 minutes to get my hook down before I was washed on the rocks.

She said I was being silly and that had never happened to her before.

In our case I would not motor 200 yards away from a closed bridge with a 2 knot current heading towards the bridge, but that is what he did.

IOW I don't trust motors, or much of anything else for that matter.
 
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