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Some friends of mine have a 1975 Pearson 26. They have had the boat for probably four seasons. They used the boat very little last year and as far as I know not at all this year. They haven't said anything about selling yet but I would not be surprised if the thought has occurred to them. They have had two bad years. So my question is how to do I treat friends if they ask me if I want to buy their boat.

The problem is that they have put a lot of money into the boat.
The following is what I know about:
3,600 for the boat.
3,000 into depth, speed instruments, cushions, main-sheet blocks running rigging etc.
300 Jib
2,000 Roller fuller jib end of last year probably never used
2,000 New elect system
3,000 New outboard with remote control with I would guess 10 hours on it.

They did most of the work themselves and are very talented and did either a pretty good job or excellent over kill job.

So not including dockage and normal maintenance like paint etc they have a total of at least 14,000 into the boat.

The problem is it is a '75. And no matter what you do to a '75 it is still a very old boat.
If it was just some guy off the street I would figure the boat is worth 3,000 the 7,000 in upgrades is worth 1,000 and the outboard is worth 2,000.

That would bring the total to 6,000 which is pretty near the high end for this boat.

I really don't need a boat but they are my first students ever and I have a soft spot for the boat and all the work they put into it.
I might be able to get a couple years out of it and then I would have to sell. So the real question is even with all the upgrades if I paid 6,000 I'll bet I'll take a loss.
My friend has a sailnet account and may see this post so maybe you can set me straight on the pricing. Hopefully they will stick it out another year and not consider selling which is perfect for me. No decision necessary.
 

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The value of a boat for the seller is what yu can get for it. The value of the boat to a buyer is what you are willing to pay for it. If you can meet somewhere in the middle and both be happy then so much the better. However what is hard to value is what you the buyer will get out of the boat in the form on pleasure and pride of ownership. What im saying is that although you can monetise a boat in terms of value its not always about money. Its about what you get out of using it and doing things that bring you joy and appreciation. If this particular boat is one that you want and you can get it at a price that is acceptable to both parties then go for it. Negotiation is the key.

Good luck,

Mike
 

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There are at least 3 factors you need to take into consideration.

One is the emotional factor. If you want to buy the boat for $6K, because you like them and want to help them out, then don't think too much about the boat; it is a philanthropic gesture, very considerate, and the degree to which you want to help them out is the main factor.

Second consideration - how much does a bot like that sell for in your area. You can get an idea from the 'web; assume that the sale price is 20-30% below the asking price. Depending on where you are, boats may sell high or low, fast or slow.

The most painful part of the discussion is the upgrades. I hate saying this, but the amount they paid for the upgrades - and the blood, sweat and tears they put into upgrading, are all irrelevant. It's painful but true. Regardless of the work they put into it, they still have a 1975 P26. AS you know - say it is worth $5-$6K tops. They put $20K into it? Still a 1975 P26 worth $5-$6k. Like many others, I pour money into the boat, upgrading, repairing - if I am very lucky this maintains the value, but it'll never add to the value. Money lost - boats are not a good financial investment! If you buy it at the top end - like any boat - after a couple of years you'll be lucky to recoup your investment; I bet you'll take a loss.

I think you already know this...but hope it helps....
 

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I read this and being curious, I looked at the prices of those boats on the internet sales sites. I did not see a single one of them that was over $7,500.00 and most were right around $5,000.00 to $6,500.00 and had trailers with them.

You can google as well as I can, so it is not hard to find a whole lot of these boats in that price range. I know that you are kind of emotionally attached to the boat and the sellers, but in the end it is a boat. You know that a boat is only worth what someone will pay for it, and friendships are worth more than gold every day, so it may be better just to walk away from the boat if the price is going to cause hard feelings.
 

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I like the Pearson 26's. I sailed them for many years when I was teaching, and on a friends 26. If it's in good condition and with the upgrades that you've outlined there's no reason why it wouldn't sell on the open market, possibly for the price that you have estimated.

So, I'm not sure why you would purchase a boat that you don't need.
 

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Some friends of mine have a 1975 Pearson 26. They have had the boat for probably four seasons. They used the boat very little last year and as far as I know not at all this year. They haven't said anything about selling yet but I would not be surprised if the thought has occurred to them. They have had two bad years. So my question is how to do I treat friends if they ask me if I want to buy their boat.

The problem is that they have put a lot of money into the boat.
The following is what I know about:
3,600 for the boat.
3,000 into depth, speed instruments, cushions, main-sheet blocks running rigging etc.
300 Jib
2,000 Roller fuller jib end of last year probably never used
2,000 New elect system
3,000 New outboard with remote control with I would guess 10 hours on it.

They did most of the work themselves and are very talented and did either a pretty good job or excellent over kill job.

So not including dockage and normal maintenance like paint etc they have a total of at least 14,000 into the boat.

The problem is it is a '75. And no matter what you do to a '75 it is still a very old boat.
If it was just some guy off the street I would figure the boat is worth 3,000 the 7,000 in upgrades is worth 1,000 and the outboard is worth 2,000.

That would bring the total to 6,000 which is pretty near the high end for this boat.

I really don't need a boat but they are my first students ever and I have a soft spot for the boat and all the work they put into it.
I might be able to get a couple years out of it and then I would have to sell. So the real question is even with all the upgrades if I paid 6,000 I'll bet I'll take a loss.
My friend has a sailnet account and may see this post so maybe you can set me straight on the pricing. Hopefully they will stick it out another year and not consider selling which is perfect for me. No decision necessary.
The sad reality is that it is still about a $3600.00 to $4.5k boat despite all the upgrades. The motor can be valued with or without the boat but with the boat it is generally worth less at FMV.. In that size boat the return on investment into it is next to nil. 6k for a P-26 is pretty high even for a pristine one in showroom condition.... Sub 30 footers have been hit really, really hard.

You need to take the friend thing out of it and figure what it is worth on the open market, unless you feel charitable. IMHO, based on what I see selling out there, it is still a $3600.00 to 4.5k boat....

Keep in mind these boats have plywood laminated into the keel stubs and steel keel bolts. This project alone can easily exceed the value. It would be pretty rare to see a 1975 without the plywood damp to wet...
 

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Some friends of mine have a 1975 Pearson 26. They have had the boat for probably four seasons. They used the boat very little last year and as far as I know not at all this year. They haven't said anything about selling yet but I would not be surprised if the thought has occurred to them. They have had two bad years. So my question is how to do I treat friends if they ask me if I want to buy their boat.

The problem is that they have put a lot of money into the boat.
The following is what I know about:
3,600 for the boat.
3,000 into depth, speed instruments, cushions, main-sheet blocks running rigging etc.
300 Jib
2,000 Roller fuller jib end of last year probably never used
2,000 New elect system
3,000 New outboard with remote control with I would guess 10 hours on it.

They did most of the work themselves and are very talented and did either a pretty good job or excellent over kill job.

So not including dockage and normal maintenance like paint etc they have a total of at least 14,000 into the boat.

The problem is it is a '75. And no matter what you do to a '75 it is still a very old boat.
If it was just some guy off the street I would figure the boat is worth 3,000 the 7,000 in upgrades is worth 1,000 and the outboard is worth 2,000.

That would bring the total to 6,000 which is pretty near the high end for this boat.

I really don't need a boat but they are my first students ever and I have a soft spot for the boat and all the work they put into it.
I might be able to get a couple years out of it and then I would have to sell. So the real question is even with all the upgrades if I paid 6,000 I'll bet I'll take a loss.
My friend has a sailnet account and may see this post so maybe you can set me straight on the pricing. Hopefully they will stick it out another year and not consider selling which is perfect for me. No decision necessary.
Because he's in a pickle over his spending on the boat, and because you are friends, doesn't mean you should get into a similar pickle (although you seem to be on your way already).

Unfortunately, a good deal of what's been invested in the yacht are costs that don't significantly enhance value but merely maintain it. That said, and considering your friendship and wish to not appear as if you are willing to take advantage of a friend, if I were in your position and my friend asked me if I had an interest in buying the boat, I'd explain that I understood how much he had invested in the boat and yet that I also had a fair idea of what it was really worth (without discussing a number). I'd also say that I didn't want to chance offending him and so wouldn't make an offer but, that if he were willing to take it to market for awhile, I would be willing to beat any legitimate offer he received by 10% (or whatever percentage you feel comfortable with). If he gets an offer for $4500; you'd pay him $4950. In that manner you'd be helping him out (to some degree) but not unduly burdening yourself.

FWIW...
 

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I would simply do my best to help them sell this boat. We all have to learn the hard lessons of life on our own dime.
You are a very kind man, David.
 

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Don't buy an overequipped/undervalued boat from a friend, if you value the friendship.
At least, not right now.
IF he puts it on the market, IF he seeks your counsel regarding the boat's value, IF he prices it at a price that you are comfortable with, then make an offer- your friend has made the first move. If you offer to buy this boat before he actually puts it on the market, and you set the price based on what you think it is worth, your friend may feel that you are low-balling him, taking advantage of the fact that you know they have had a couple of bad years.

Let him come to you.
 

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Yes, deals with friends rarely turn out positive once you get over a hundred dollars. The first issue you run into can be a bone of contention, and would prefer to not deal with friends or family in such transactions. I don't know what the value is, but I think Mainesail is on the right track but could be a bit low but not much. Why are they selling? Thing is unless they find someone like you who is familure with the work they put into it, it is still worth the 3,600 they bought the boat for, with the exception of the new outboard, so I would add the price of the value of the now used outboard and go with that. The rest of the stuff is really just maintenance, but very good maintenance. The only thing on a boat like that that will increase the value is the motor and a new trailer.

It is not like a collectors car where money put into it will increase the value, it just keeps it going. I doubt they were under any allusions that the value would go up much with the work, likely he enjoys the work.
 

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Because they are friends and you want to keep them that way, I'd suggest you each get an outside market evaluation and average the two.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
The motor can be valued with or without the boat but with the boat it is generally worth less at FMV..
Why is that?
How much would the motor depreciate if it only has a dozen hours on it.

It has an electric start which in my opinion is a very nice but expensive extra that in some sense discounts the motor more because of the installation necessary to move it to a new boat.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I talked to her today. I offered my mooring for next season to let them hang on to the boat one more year.
If they have a good year they may be good for a while.

It doesn't really matter how much you put into a boat if you keep it. Any number amortized over 10 years is not so scary.
 

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I think Maine Sail's point is that a brand new motor on an old sailboat might only increase the value of the old sailboat by a couple of hundred dollars.

The brand new motor sold on it's own and the sailboat sold with no motor (or an old motor bought cheaply on CL) would probably fetch more than the two together.

Electric start doesn't mean that the motor has to have remote controls. Tohatsu has some reasonably priced electric start motors that work nicely on most outboard powered sailboats. I think they add about $100 to the price and you get the alternator too.
 

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DISCLAIMER: I have not read all the posts... nor will I.

What should YOU offer for the boat?: $0 - you don't want it, so don't buy it.

What can you do?: Help him/her/them sell it, by offering them sound objective advise.

I would suggest the following:

They should ask $8K for the boat with the motor (good luck)

Or, try to sell the motor alone for $2K, and the boat for $6K. The money that they spent on depth, speed instruments, cushions, main-sheet blocks running rigging etc. may help them sell faster, but they will not likely recoup it...
Do not buy a boat as a financial investment, but rather an investment in yourself.
 
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Some friends of mine have a 1975 Pearson 26. They have had ........
You cannot buy that boat.
  1. You'll piss off your friends if you offer them less than they have in it
  2. It's not worth the sum of what they have invested
There is no win if you offer them what it's really worth. It's best to let strangers, not you, tell them that their going to lose their shirts on the upgrades that they made. Similar boats are not that hard to find and the buyer usually comes out ahead on a properly rebuilt/upgraded boat.
 
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