SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 67 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
483 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Was watching a few Youtube sailing channels last night and wondered how things will change going forward - in the past I think many thought a cruising sailboat as an escape pod to get the hell out of somewhere if things go bad - turns out they might be more isolated than they want to be - many of them were trapped in self quarantine for at least 2 weeks - with very limited opportunities to go ashore - and I am sure this will continue thru May - turns out many of those welcoming islands and ports aren't so welcoming to non-citizens when the sh*t hits the fan. And going forward after we get through this - the next time there is even a hint of a new virus spreading - every country will quickly shut its border. The quarantines will be lightened and eventually be lifted - but its going to be even longer for any sort of regular flights resume - I assume going forward many will sail closer to home -
 

·
Barquito
Joined
·
3,478 Posts
Just as air travel changed after 9/11, I would imagine aspects of our life will change after COVID-19. You may be right about limitations on entering other ports. However, there are some ports that rely on visiting recreational boats that will be pushing to stay open. I don't really like the term, 'New Normal'. We just get used to whatever the situation is. Can you image waving goodbye to family and friends at the jetbridge, stepping on the plane, and lighting up a cigarette? Wasn't that long ago. Things change.
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,235 Posts
"turns out many of those welcoming islands and ports aren't so welcoming to non-citizens"
Here in Carriacou I don't find this to be the case at all. Since the quarantine (which I appreciate) went into effect several local businesses have been shopping and doing pharmacy runs for those on the boats, AT NO CHARGE!
I betcha that ain't happening in a lot of places. Folks elsewhere are probably gouging as much as they can and trying to make a buck off this tragedy.
However, I do believe that the danger to the at risk group will be around for at least a year everywhere, or until a vaccine is available to enough people to stop this pandemic, so cruising as we knew it will probably not return to what it was for quite some time, if ever.

But is definitely too late to "bug out" and staying in place is probably the best bet for those on boats.
I remember the days when international travelers had to carry a little yellow book that showed that they were vaccinated against certain diseases. I see this returning, and being enforced. No vaccinations, no entry.
 

·
Old soul
Joined
·
4,498 Posts
I've been wondering the same thing. I have the creeping sense that the lessons authorities will take from this crisis are the darker ones.

Authoritarian and isolationist tenancies were already on the rise around the globe before this current crisis. I fear we're going to see an expansion in the (over)reach of "security" measures around the world.

...All for our own good, of course :rolleyes:.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
483 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
- one thing countries have learned - close borders as quick as possible when a virus props up - I can imagine many smaller isolated countries will quickly shut down during next virus ( serious or not) they are going to err on the side of doing too much - sailing from Panama to South Pacific - you could get there and find everything is closed - many Caribbean islands also - although a bit closer to turn around and head home if from US.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
7,167 Posts
Really interesting question.

I still think the boat is the best escape pod. But obviously much more difficult to move countries than we thought so we gotta be in situ before the borders close.
keep the boat stocked, fuelled etc.

Personally:
Become a prepper LOLOL (!!)
Have some barter or trade goods? A bit of gold flake, or something.
Years supply food/goods etc
Gets into crazy stuff.


Nationally (not talking about USA specifically)
Increase strategic reserves of medical equipment, drugs etc
Ability for military to build field hospitals etc.
Legislation changes go enable a country to pivot quicker (many countries a military is not ALLOWED to deploy amongst civilians etc), FDA type approvals legislate to make their rules more adjustable in a State of Emergency.
Slow change to where all citizens have a supply of N95 masts for personal use
Ensure ability to manufacture pharmaceuticals and their pre-cursor ingredients in-country (large countries) or guaranteed supply (small countries)




Geo-politically
Globalism is dead.
China is done as an economic power. They maybe able to treat their own citizens like that but they cant treat other countries like they do. They've well overstepped the mark.
Change of ability for companies to outsource essential products to another country.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,069 Posts
Since building the boat in 2013 I’ve always tried to keep it ready for passage at all times. That includes having all systems with appropriate spares and fully functional. All safety gear functional inspected and certified. Clothes for cold and hot with duplicates of key elements (foulies, boots etc.)
This season had to replace electronics and do portlight maintenance. Sails need some stitching. Some zippers need attention but boat is fully functional. Over the summer will have interior varnish touched up. Boat will,be Bristol upon my return. However, looking at boats just before this pandemic struck I see quite a few that would need major attention to be brought up to bluewater standards. It’s a major expense to keep a boat up to that standard. Especially when dealing with customs and shipping and broker fees. It’s a constant scramble to source things which occupies a lot of time and effort. While cruising around unless diligent it fades into the background. You don’t use the vast majority of voyaging stuff. Beyond the safety gear it’s even true for things like the windvane, heating system, foulies. We even make coffee differently and use different foods while on passage. Whole different mindset. I haven’t used my windvane once while inter island cruising.
Think this will,change people’s approach to their boats. Some will have them set up for voyaging at all times. Some will change their cruising grounds. Some will insure differently. Some will,change boats. Some will bailout of cruising altogether.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
205 Posts
I am getting the feeling that some islands that love cruisers money are quickly hating them now as evil outsiders.

But i bet they get over it when the virus is over and they again want/need the money. I wonder how/what cruisers will feel? I have l g felt the the opinion of mne that matters is how/where I spend my money.
I have to say, the French here on Guadeloupe have been very accommodating and polite regarding the 100 or more boats stranded here in Pointe a Pitre. The harbor police and locals at the marina, marine store and grocery stores are very polite.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,938 Posts
I suspect more local cruisers will like carry more provisions as think of their boat as a refuge... Fuel and potable water will be a problem.

Distance cruisers will ramp up the stores... and things that will last a long time.

These sorts of "strategies" for dealing with "emergencies" will be undertaken by dirt dwellers as well.

But realistically long term survival is not possible for most people.

The issue is how long of a "supply disruption" is it possible to be prepared for?

+++++

Shiva is in good shape and has done thousands of miles offshore. But She hasn't in years an would need a lot of "upgrades" to bring her to sail away to anywhere mode. The life raft is in Sal's garage! The high seas radio antenna needs a wire replaced... a water maker needs to be installed... and the list goes on. For local cruising the boat's fine. Electronics are getting long in the tooth but work fine... and I suppose I would need charts for over there! But staying anywhere means supplies and food.
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,235 Posts
I am getting the feeling that some islands that love cruisers money are quickly hating them now as evil outsiders.

But i bet they get over it when the virus is over and they again want/need the money. I wonder how/what cruisers will feel? I have l g felt the the opinion of mne that matters is how/where I spend my money.
I don't think you understand how unimportant cruisers are to the governments of most of these islands.
One single cruise ship brings in 6 figures to the government just for docking, then add pilot's fees, landing fees for 3 to 5,000 passengers and the government has probably made more in one day than all the cruisers' total expendatures in a month.
Then there's the mega yachts, many of which provision and take fuel from the commercial agencies on the islands, again vastly more in fees and products than the cruisers.
They don't need us, they just accommodate us because we do employ some locals, but certainly not nearly as many as the cruise ships, tour groups and hotels.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarkofSeaLife

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,791 Posts
A large reason we got this boat in 2010 was as a bug out boat. Always been ready to go except if in the yard for work. She is performing that role well. We are quite comfortable here in Dominica. I’m in no hurry to return to the states.

How will cruising change going forward?

I suspect that the economy and virus will kill many plans. IMHO this virus shows just how scared so many people are of “different” things, anything. It’s hard to imagine a better place to be than here right now. Yet many folks are running into the fire. Some have other obligations and no choice. But many are just drawn like mosquitos to a bug zapper.

So folks will close in, withdraw, retreat. Go into personal lock down.

I think a lot of fine boats will come on the market for very good prices. Anchorages will be less full. More chandleries will go bust. Mixed bag.

Our marina in Newfoundland was already loosing customers, more slips available, because of people aging out of the sport and youngsters not taking it up. This will probably accelerate that.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,803 Posts
I actually think a boat is a less desirable place to isolate than land unless you are forced to.

1- you are at the mercy of foreign governments
2 - you have suspect medical care
3- you have less rights the citizens have
4- you can’t grow your own food if the crisis last more than a few months
5- you will be subject to increased lawlessness should it become a dog eat dog situation caused by dwindling
Resources and can’t protect yourself
6- you may be forced to move at a moments notice
7- you are subject to the weather more than the average land lubbers
8- you are at the end of a suspect long supply chain
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,235 Posts
Yeah thats great for the places that a cruise ship goes. Meaningless for others.
Which islands have you not seen cruise ships at in the EC? One line even bought a Bahamian island for their ships to stop at.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
205 Posts
I actually think a boat is a less desirable place to isolate than land unless you are forced to.

1- you are at the mercy of foreign governments
2 - you have suspect medical care
3- you have less rights the citizens have
4- you can’t grow your own food if the crisis last more than a few months
5- you will be subject to increased lawlessness should it become a dog eat dog situation caused by dwindling
Resources and can’t protect yourself
6- you may be forced to move at a moments notice
7- you are subject to the weather more than the average land lubbers
8- you are at the end of a suspect long supply chain
I’m going to have to disagree with you on all of your points.

1. Sure we can be asked to leave, which hasn’t happened yet in the vast majority of locations.
2. Being more isolated on boats, we are much less likely to need medical attention.
3. We seem to have the same or similar rights as far as I’ve experienced, except we can’t vote.
4. We can fish and make our own fresh water.
5. Less crime out here on our own private island that can go to a safer location if necessary.
6. What’s the worst that can happen, being told to go back to our home country?
7. Not if we keep an eye on the forecast.
8. We are 100% self sufficient and fully stocked... even TP

We’re much less likely to catch the bug out here where my primary concern seems to have become satisfying the insurance company’s requirements for our policy to remain in effect.
 

·
Learning the HARD way...
Joined
·
7,151 Posts
The owner of the vessel that I helped bring south last fall contacted me recently to ask if I would help him bring the boat north again. As we were headed south he told me of his plans to take the boat across the Atlantic to the Azores, and then to northern Europe. He now wants to stick to the US. When he contacted me he told me that there are over 200 boats in Georgetown with similar intentions - returning to the USA as soon as possible. I have other plans during the time that he thinks that he will be headed back, so I politely declined the opportunity.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,803 Posts
I don't think you understand how unimportant cruisers are to the governments of most of these islands.
One single cruise ship brings in 6 figures to the government just for docking, then add pilot's fees, landing fees for 3 to 5,000 passengers and the government has probably made more in one day than all the cruisers' total expendatures in a month.
Then there's the mega yachts, many of which provision and take fuel from the commercial agencies on the islands, again vastly more in fees and products than the cruisers.
They don't need us, they just accommodate us because we do employ some locals, but certainly not nearly as many as the cruise ships, tour groups and hotels.
Yet every individual, even one cruiser can bring the deadly Covid 19 into their midst a la Captain Cook.
 
  • Like
Reactions: capta

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,791 Posts
With as little sarcasm as I can muster

IM USING CAPS TO HIGHLIGHT MY RESPONSE - NOT TO YELL!

1- you are at the mercy of foreign governments
I FIND ALL GOVERNMENTS FOREIGN TO COMMON SENSE AND COMMON GOOD

2 - you have suspect medical care
WITH THE EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD I AM SUSPECT OF ALL MEDICAL CARE

3- you have less rights the citizens have
CIVIL SEIZURE AND FORFEITURE?

4- you can’t grow your own food if the crisis last more than a few months
WE LIVED IN A BOX APARTMENT IN CENTER CITY
AND IT TAKES MONTHS TO GROW FOOD IF YOU HAVEN'T STARTED ALREADY, AND BESIDES - WINTER

5- you will be subject to increased lawlessness should it become a dog eat dog situation caused by dwindling
Resources and can’t protect yourself
WE LIVED IN A BIG CENTER CITY, BEHIND BARED WINDOWS, DONT LEAVE WINDOWS OPEN OR ANYTHING IN REACH IS GONE
THE BARS ONLY SLOWED THE BUGGERS DOWN

6- you may be forced to move at a moments notice
I AM ABLE TO MOVE AT A MOMENTS NOTICE

7- you are subject to the weather more than the average land lubbers
I WAS SUBJECT TO 1.5 MILLION OTHER TOP LEVEL PREDATORS DAILY. TRY A SNOW FLURRY IN PHILADELPHIA AND WATCH 1.5 MILLION PANIC AND BLOCK ROADS STOPPING HEATING FUEL DELIVERIES FOR DAYS ON END

8- you are at the end of a suspect long supply chain
I BUY FRESH FOOD DAILY IN A FOOD SELF SUFFICIENT PLACE
THIS CAN BE SAID OF ALMOST ANY TOWN IN THE USA

:devil

Chief,

I have no doubt that you feel strongly about the statements you made. However they are far from universal truths.

In fact, and I mean this not sarcastically but truly felt, if you believe in that list you have lived a very protected and extremely lucky life. Just to take one example, trusting the medical field, I could write pages of first hand experiences with hospitals and doctors to refute your claim. Perhaps that’s not your experience, it is mine.

No I’m not asking you to agree, but simply understand others feel differently, with good reason.

And it is likely that your experience, and certainly your opinions, are more mainstream, more common. But they are not my experience or opinions.
 
1 - 20 of 67 Posts
Top