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With as little sarcasm as I can muster

IM USING CAPS TO HIGHLIGHT MY RESPONSE - NOT TO YELL!

1- you are at the mercy of foreign governments
I FIND ALL GOVERNMENTS FOREIGN TO COMMON SENSE AND COMMON GOOD

2 - you have suspect medical care
WITH THE EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD I AM SUSPECT OF ALL MEDICAL CARE

3- you have less rights the citizens have
CIVIL SEIZURE AND FORFEITURE?

4- you can’t grow your own food if the crisis last more than a few months
WE LIVED IN A BOX APARTMENT IN CENTER CITY
AND IT TAKES MONTHS TO GROW FOOD IF YOU HAVEN'T STARTED ALREADY, AND BESIDES - WINTER

5- you will be subject to increased lawlessness should it become a dog eat dog situation caused by dwindling
Resources and can’t protect yourself
WE LIVED IN A BIG CENTER CITY, BEHIND BARED WINDOWS, DONT LEAVE WINDOWS OPEN OR ANYTHING IN REACH IS GONE
THE BARS ONLY SLOWED THE BUGGERS DOWN

6- you may be forced to move at a moments notice
I AM ABLE TO MOVE AT A MOMENTS NOTICE

7- you are subject to the weather more than the average land lubbers
I WAS SUBJECT TO 1.5 MILLION OTHER TOP LEVEL PREDATORS DAILY. TRY A SNOW FLURRY IN PHILADELPHIA AND WATCH 1.5 MILLION PANIC AND BLOCK ROADS STOPPING HEATING FUEL DELIVERIES FOR DAYS ON END

8- you are at the end of a suspect long supply chain
I BUY FRESH FOOD DAILY IN A FOOD SELF SUFFICIENT PLACE
THIS CAN BE SAID OF ALMOST ANY TOWN IN THE USA

:devil

Chief,

I have no doubt that you feel strongly about the statements you made. However they are far from universal truths.

In fact, and I mean this not sarcastically but truly felt, if you believe in that list you have lived a very protected and extremely lucky life. Just to take one example, trusting the medical field, I could write pages of first hand experiences with hospitals and doctors to refute your claim. Perhaps that’s not your experience, it is mine.

No I’m not asking you to agree, but simply understand others feel differently, with good reason.

And it is likely that your experience, and certainly your opinions, are more mainstream, more common. But they are not my experience or opinions.
Thanks for the well thought out response
I am conflicted on some of mine/ your points🤭
I am also a Philly boy

Stay safe
 
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Old soul
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Maybe we could get back to discussing how cruising might change in the future, and leave the debate over how best to self-quarantine to the other threads.

To highlight some of my concerns, a story in Politico:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023
DOJ seeks new emergency powers amid coronavirus pandemic

The Justice Department has quietly asked Congress for the ability to ask chief judges to detain people indefinitely without trial during emergencies — part of a push for new powers that comes as the novel coronavirus spreads throughout the United States.
Authorities rarely pass up an opportunity to extend their power. In times of crisis it's not unreasonable to extend the reach of the law, but we need to be very, very careful that these are time limited and open to independent oversight.

I know ... I sound a bit paranoid, but it is all too easy to look back to other crisis and see how "temporary measures" became permanent.
 

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I'm surprised at the pessimism that seems to pervade the thoughts of a lot of people, not just here but everywhere and I want to take up some thoughts of @hpeer and @capta @TheCruisingExperience that may be in other threads...

I think everything will be back to 'normal' by Hurricane season. By June you will be able to move where you wish in the Caribbean to settle/haul. Supermarkets will be full. The world will obviously be back on the road of recovery and many places wont have any indication of the difficulties we are in now.

1) Media sells with bad news not good. Its highly advantageous for them to see no cure and a clear path to Armageddon. We all know this... but do we really see how persuasive their misery is?
2) Its easy for people to pick up the gloom and doom and pass it on. This is the heyday of the morose, doomsday people that you normally leave at the end of the bar cryinging into their beer. These people are currently winning. They win by bringing you down.
3) Stuff like this has never happened.... the diseases have, but the reporting style/reactions havent. Its the first pandemic of the instant Internet Age, thats all. If the Black Death had Twitter; if the 1918 flu wasn't hidden by war but exacerbated by CNN & Fox. The bad side is the feeling people have received; but the good is the speed of reaction has been wonderful.
4) Businesses have evolved but have gone a bit toooo far to be able to handle this type of occurrence. Supermarkets in major countries (sorry not Grenada!) do not warehouse like they used to. Its all like manufacturing JIT - Just In Time. Every ingredient arrives at the factory by brilliant transport mechanisms from anywhere in the world (China!) at exactly the right time and in the right quantities to fill the precise order and is shipped to a distribution centre - not a warehouse - and into the supermarkets shelves, not their back room. If just 1,000 more rolls of toilet paper are bought today then the whole JIT chain is stretched... Or if just one ingredient comes from a country that is no longer available...
Yes, the Grenadas of the world will have all their toilet paper deliveries stopped until New York is resupplied, no tomatoes flown direct from France etc. Yes the Caribbean will be affected longest, particularly the Islands that really don't grow anything of their own. I can eat just so many plantains :)

All of a sudden Globalism has had every border shut... but worse, sequentially from the worlds largest industrial, pre-curser ingredient manufacturer - China.
In the months before this theres been a shocking understanding that too much is without our control: Rare Earths is/are one of them. Mined only in a few places, Australian USA (small amount), china and India they are used in every bit of high tech we have from phones, optics, lasers, anything in space, the lot. Absolute must have's. Except they really are one of the most highly polluting things to extract from ore https://www.thoughtco.com/rare-earth-metals-2340169


Cruising will come back to normal very quickly as will peoples lives in the major countries. What will be the net affect, though, will take many years... A re-invention of supply chains. so that major countries control their destinies themselves.

A few short weeks: 4 weeks maybe, or 8 weeks tops, imho. And the most idyllic places to spend them, aboard our own boats. Whats not to like about that?

The only reason you want to move is someone has told you you can't. At another time if the competition said: "WIN 3 months on a Private Sailboat anchored in the Grenadines!" you'd submit 25 entries.


Mark

** Below, attached image. After I wrote this post I saw CNBC. Gloom and doom on the markets... except the actual stock ticker immediately above shows a strong EU lift (and dont show todays 1% lift in US futures, or yesterdays 3% lift!!)
 

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.....Since the quarantine (which I appreciate) went into effect several local businesses have been shopping and doing pharmacy runs for those on the boats, AT NO CHARGE!
I betcha that ain't happening in a lot of places. Folks elsewhere are probably gouging as much as they can and trying to make a buck off this tragedy.......
You'd be heartened to know the stories of gouging are the gross exception. The take out coffee and sandwich shop down the street from us has adopted a "pay whatever you can afford policy", since last week. Many pretty good people on the mainland too.
 

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......Have some barter or trade goods? A bit of gold flake, or something.......
I have to admit, I've never understood this. Commodity trading/hedging in a normal economy makes sense, but who is going to take some metal in exchange for food or medicine in an all out collapse? Not to mention, gold and diamonds are contrived markets, based on perceived value. They literally just dig it out of the ground.
 

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I have to admit, I've never understood this. Commodity trading/hedging in a normal economy makes sense, but who is going to take some metal in exchange for food or medicine in an all out collapse? Not to mention, gold and diamonds are contrived markets, based on perceived value. They literally just dig it out of the ground.
Note I didn't say gold only. I said 3 things: gold, barter and trade goods.

Dunno what they may be. But yes only a fool would take just one.

What would you use is currency is not used?
 

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@MarkofSeaLife....

Not so fast perhaps. For people who have their cruising kitty ready to spend... perhaps knocked down in value a bit... they can essentially raise their sails and go. But the support businesses they rely on may be slow on the uptake to hire and restock and so on. Decline is self feeding and getting back to where it was will require a fair bit of boot strapping.

Of course this depends on what one means by "cruising". Are referring to weekenders or short term local cruising... or long term distance cruising?

Long term distance cruising will be more challenging in islands which took a major economic hit. Like with a hurricane... there will be a period of rebuilding and it will require infusion of money for infrastructure etc.

Take as an example popular shore side watering holes and eateries. After a can there will be rebuilding, re hiring and re stocking and so on. If there are few customers getting going will take more time and it may not even make it. Who will sail to visit devastated areas? To restart a business in a crashed economy is not all that different. You sail there because there is a there there... and if it's not you're not going to sail there.

Economic momentum has been stopped dead in its tracks. Momentum takes time and effort to overcome. So things may return but it won't be like turning on a light switch.
 

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SanderO,

Eateries and watering holes are quite different here in the Caribbean than in the US. Most here are nothing more than what seems like a portable shack on the beach or a tin roof extension on the front or side of someone’s house along the road. Being closed is for sure a financial hardship for the locals, but opening up again requires little more effort than turning over the closed sign on the front door to read open, then telling their family members to be ready for customers.
 

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SanderO,

Eateries and watering holes are quite different here in the Caribbean than in the US. Most here are nothing more than what seems like a portable shack on the beach or a tin roof extension on the front or side of someone’s house along the road. Being closed is for sure a financial hardship for the locals, but opening up again requires little more effort than turning over the closed sign on the front door to read open, then telling their family members to be ready for customers.
I lived down in the windwards for 4 years back in the 90s.... I would have thought there was some development like what one sees in English Harbor... or Philipsburg

But perhaps times stands still in the topics.
 

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Maybe we could get back to discussing how cruising might change in the future, and leave the debate over how best to self-quarantine to the other threads.

To highlight some of my concerns, a story in Politico:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023


Authorities rarely pass up an opportunity to extend their power. In times of crisis it's not unreasonable to extend the reach of the law, but we need to be very, very careful that these are time limited and open to independent oversight.

I know ... I sound a bit paranoid, but it is all too easy to look back to other crisis and see how "temporary measures" became permanent.
As 911 was unfolding, that morning, a lady, a friend, a Clinical Psychologist who worked for me was sobbing at her desk. I tried to comfort her. She explained that she was crying because this event would be used to take our freedoms away. She was right.
 

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I lived down in the windwards for 4 years back in the 90s.... I would have thought there was some development like what one sees in English Harbor... or Philipsburg

But perhaps times stands still in the topics.

No.... its interesting because a lot of the bars really only have one structural piece: The refrigeterator.

In a lot of places the bar itself is a lean-to of a fridge/shipping container (small one), and the 'roof' is just some wooden beams with a bit of covering.

This is pretty prevelant even in St Martin. It takes a while to spot it, but as soon as you do you can then spot them quite easily.
I think its for hurricane protection. The whole thing can blow over... but as soon as you right the refrigerator you can open up again.

In the 1990's I guess some of the bars were still just a few chairs under a tree? Funnily enough they are still there... but the tree chopped down and the bucket of ice replaced with a 20 foot container. Even the chairs are probably the same LOL
 

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No.... its interesting because a lot of the bars really only have one structural piece: The refrigeterator.

In a lot of places the bar itself is a lean-to of a fridge/shipping container (small one), and the 'roof' is just some wooden beams with a bit of covering.

This is pretty prevelant even in St Martin. It takes a while to spot it, but as soon as you do you can then spot them quite easily.
I think its for hurricane protection. The whole thing can blow over... but as soon as you right the refrigerator you can open up again.

In the 1990's I guess some of the bars were still just a few chairs under a tree? Funnily enough they are still there... but the tree chopped down and the bucket of ice replaced with a 20 foot container. Even the chairs are probably the same LOL
I do remember one of my favorite stops... It was a "grille pit" on the beach in St Kitts where we would anchor and go ashore and get some grilled fish and so on. It was hardly a restaurant but it was very popular. I forgot the name of the lovely man who ran it..... BUT

Fifteen years on I actually saw him in a supermarket up here one winter. I think he sailed up with some yacht as crew or cook or something and was hanging out until sailing down again and firing up his grilling pit which was really in a steel drum. I wish I could remember his name... he was a great guy!

EDIT... His name was Sunshine! How the Eff did I remember that from 25 yrs ago?
 

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So shoot me for this post being off topic, but I've wanted to know something for a while now, and the above is an example.

How does one do the above - link to a person in a formal way?

I've often wanted to attribute a thought or credit or etc to another without having to post a lot of that person's actual quotes that are redundant or irrelevant. All I've come up with is to type their user name, but that doesn't make it stand out or acknowledge like I want it to.

Mark
 

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So you need a part.
In US get on IPad. Find manufacturer, various vendors, distributors. Compare costs and availability. Maybe get it on eBay, or amazon or defender or west or maybe get in care and go to distributor or directly to manufacturer.
In Windwards go to IWW or budget or small specialty shop. Maybe wait a week. Maybe another week for broker to get his act together. Or maybe three weeks so go off cruising after paying with intention of stopping back when available.
Still, in US you’ll get it and be able to shop for best price.
In Windwards if volume falls sufficiently mechanics of importation become so difficult as to make access impossible. Have had stuff fedexed to me. Have had occasion where local shops don’t carry or have in catalogue or have no interest in getting me a part unless they do the install. Unless you are a long term marina resident or real friendly with a local arranging a shipping address is difficult. So if charter business collapses and doesn’t come back or number of cruisers falls sufficiently long term cruising will below increasingly more difficult and expensive.
Used to take two passages a year. One R.I. To Caribbean. Other Caribbean to R.I. Allowed very limited marina time. Allowed restocking all spares, tools and non food supplies for the year without difficulties. Once when getting home. Again just before leaving. Passage is hard on you and the boat. Last year just stored in Caribbean for hurricane season. No passages. Easy on the boat and you. Think if things go south with the islands boating services infrastructure will be forced to do biannual passages again.
 

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I'm surprised at the pessimism that seems to pervade the thoughts of a lot of people, not just here but everywhere and I want to take up some thoughts of @hpeer and @capta @TheCruisingExperience that may be in other threads...

I think everything will be back to 'normal' by Hurricane season. By June you will be able to move where you wish in the Caribbean to settle/haul. Supermarkets will be full. The world will obviously be back on the road of recovery and many places wont have any indication of the difficulties we are in now.

1) Media sells with bad news not good. Its highly advantageous for them to see no cure and a clear path to Armageddon. We all know this... but do we really see how persuasive their misery is?
2) Its easy for people to pick up the gloom and doom and pass it on. This is the heyday of the morose, doomsday people that you normally leave at the end of the bar cryinging into their beer. These people are currently winning. They win by bringing you down.
3) Stuff like this has never happened.... the diseases have, but the reporting style/reactions havent. Its the first pandemic of the instant Internet Age, thats all. If the Black Death had Twitter; if the 1918 flu wasn't hidden by war but exacerbated by CNN & Fox. The bad side is the feeling people have received; but the good is the speed of reaction has been wonderful.
4) Businesses have evolved but have gone a bit toooo far to be able to handle this type of occurrence. Supermarkets in major countries (sorry not Grenada!) do not warehouse like they used to. Its all like manufacturing JIT - Just In Time. Every ingredient arrives at the factory by brilliant transport mechanisms from anywhere in the world (China!) at exactly the right time and in the right quantities to fill the precise order and is shipped to a distribution centre - not a warehouse - and into the supermarkets shelves, not their back room. If just 1,000 more rolls of toilet paper are bought today then the whole JIT chain is stretched... Or if just one ingredient comes from a country that is no longer available...
Yes, the Grenadas of the world will have all their toilet paper deliveries stopped until New York is resupplied, no tomatoes flown direct from France etc. Yes the Caribbean will be affected longest, particularly the Islands that really don't grow anything of their own. I can eat just so many plantains :)

All of a sudden Globalism has had every border shut... but worse, sequentially from the worlds largest industrial, pre-curser ingredient manufacturer - China.
In the months before this theres been a shocking understanding that too much is without our control: Rare Earths is/are one of them. Mined only in a few places, Australian USA (small amount), china and India they are used in every bit of high tech we have from phones, optics, lasers, anything in space, the lot. Absolute must have's. Except they really are one of the most highly polluting things to extract from ore https://www.thoughtco.com/rare-earth-metals-2340169


Cruising will come back to normal very quickly as will peoples lives in the major countries. What will be the net affect, though, will take many years... A re-invention of supply chains. so that major countries control their destinies themselves.

A few short weeks: 4 weeks maybe, or 8 weeks tops, imho. And the most idyllic places to spend them, aboard our own boats. Whats not to like about that?

The only reason you want to move is someone has told you you can't. At another time if the competition said: "WIN 3 months on a Private Sailboat anchored in the Grenadines!" you'd submit 25 entries.


Mark

** Below, attached image. After I wrote this post I saw CNBC. Gloom and doom on the markets... except the actual stock ticker immediately above shows a strong EU lift (and dont show todays 1% lift in US futures, or yesterdays 3% lift!!)
I sincerely hope you are right, Mark. We would love nothing better than to be making new friends and sailing the Grenadines every week.
 
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