SailNet Community banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just purchased a boat, and realized afterward that there was an illegally installed MSD (direct discharge). What would you suggest I do? I already contacted the PO about paying for a haulout and removal of the offending part. I was not notified that the boat was illegal to operate, and feel that this should have been included information in a sale. (Like selling a car with changed odometer or jury-rigged systems.)

Does anyone have experience here? What did you do? :puke
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
The fact that the boat direct discharges into the "sea" for lack of better wording, is not that big a deal to fix! My boat was the same. BUT< I have a black/sewage tank in the boat, that had never been hooked up in the 20 yrs the PO had owned the boat since it was new. So all I had to do was add 2 'Y' valves, and make it so that the sewage went into the tank. Along with I made it such, that "IF" I was somewhere I could direct discharge the waste into the "sea" I could move the Y valves to do so. I can also discharge the tank to the sea If I want to too. Not that the valves are set up to do so. Just as easy to pump, and the legal way to do it in Puget sound where I am.

marty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The head is installed with badly corroded "garden hose" style valves. The intake and output through hulls are below the water line. The current plan is to leave it alone, as it is not leaking right now. I am going to try to get the boat hauled if the PO will pay for it. If not, I will try to return the boat. I have also found evidence of being full of water at one point. Sadly, I trusted the PO and did not get a survey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am not sure if I have legal recourse, but it seems that there should be some, as the installation is downright illegal, and I was also misled about the state of the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
What do you mean by "Garden style valves"? IE a ball valve? That is the normal valve to have for input and out put in this situation. ball valves are used for many uses in many industries and uses for different fluid uses etc.

Sounds like you do not have, or it is not hooked up, the black tank. If it is not hooked up, you do not need to pull the boat. I hooked my tank up in the slip. AND, my surveyor noticed it at the time of sale, along with PO saying it was not hooked up, but installed.

marty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hmmm. Okay. Thanks for the help here. I just read somewhere that you cannot have an MSD without a holding tank. That is what I have. I just want to do away with the msd in general, and the way I am feeling about this, I am tempted to do away with the boat. I am concerned about the corrosion, and fear that inappropriate fixtures were used. I will try to get the bowl dry, and see what I can do to seal the through hulls temporarily. I have to get it hauled out, and get it all glassed over. Anybody know how much that might run me?

I may just try to sell the boat. It is a 24' islander bahama, I bought it for $1250, with genoa, main, jib, storm jib, and another oversized main that needs to be reduced to fit this rig.
 

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
992 Posts
By garden valves, I'm guess he means gate valves...

As for recourse, a survey should have picked this up, as well as the engine issue. If you've already bought the boat, you may not have any recourse, unless there was something in the P&S agreement specifically stating the condition of the engine and the head. Caveat emptor still rules in most cases.

Adding a holding tank isn't a big deal. Raritan makes a small one, 5 gallon IIRC, that is designed to go around the base of the head, so no other space is required. Add that tank, a deck pump out fitting and plumb the head into the tank and the tank's pumpout fitting with a y-splitter or diverter valve to the deck fitting and to a diaphragm pump and then to the seacock and you'l be good to go.

Doing this is probably a better idea than glassing over the seacock through-hull, since the head would be usable and would allow you to either pump it overboard or pump it out using pump out facilities.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
993 Posts
I am not sure if I have legal recourse, but it seems that there should be some, as the installation is downright illegal, and I was also misled about the state of the engine.
What do you mean the installation is illegal? Dumping is illegal. In order to operate in some NDZ's you have to have your discharge plugged... but I have never heard of an illegal install. Do you simply mean a non-marine (or gerry rig) install? That is not 'illegal' as far as I know. Even if a yard did it for you, the most you can do is go after them to do it right.. but I do nto think I would term it illegal.

Thoughts?

Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,304 Posts
I gotta say at 24' for 1200 dollars if it runs and floats and the sails move it you got a heck of good deal

I am spending more than that on my J24 this spring fixing up all the stuff the PO hacked up ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,600 Posts
I agree with dog. you bought it. unless the seller made specific misrepresentations, it's yours.

my boat was advertised as having 2 holding tanks. I later found one was missing. Oh well, in the grand scheme of things, it's small potatoes. i sure did curse the seller and the surveyor, but...

took me about 40 hours of labor to install the bladder and all the replumbing.

welcome to boat ownership!!!! Break Out Another Thousand...and go enjoy sailing on that great deal you got
 

·
Member
Joined
·
124 Posts
Cfr 33-159

The governing law is pretty plain:

§ 159.7 Requirements for vessel operators.
top

(a) No person may operate any vessel equipped with installed toilet facilities unless it is equipped with:

(1) An operable Type II or III device that has a label on it under §159.16 or that is certified under §159.12 or §159.12a; or

(2) An operable Type I device that has a label on it under §159.16 or that is certified under §159.12, if the vessel is 19.7 meters (65 feet) or less in length.

(b) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of treated or untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3 or 140.4, the operator must secure each Type I or Type II device in a manner which prevents discharge of treated or untreated sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include-

(1) Closing the seacock and removing the handle;

(2) Padlocking the seacock in the closed position;

(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold the seacock in the closed position; or

(4) Locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a padlock or door handle key lock.

(c) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include-

(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and removing the handle;

(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position; or

(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position.

[CGH 95-028, 62 FR 51194, Sept. 30, 1997]

Looks like the boat cannot be "operated" in its current condition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
I may just try to sell the boat. It is a 24' islander bahama, I bought it for $1250, with genoa, main, jib, storm jib, and another oversized main that needs to be reduced to fit this rig.
Tager,
This is neither here nor there, but I'm curious as to the price the boat was listed for at the time it was purchased for $1250.
I have more money than that into just going to look at the 34' boat that was "given" to me (well, ok, actually it was sold to me for $1.00).
It certainly sounds to me like you got what you paid for...but then I'm apt to type prior to thinking. :D

I don't think (appearantly not often enough, at least according to the admiral) the issue you're describing is anywhere near as big as the "reglassing" project you will be undertaking. I can't give you any $$ figures, but I'm thinking you'll have at least as much as you paid for the boat into that repair alone - and that's if you can do it all yourself.

I hope it all works out well. Please keep in mind that there is no such thing as an "inexpensive" (cheap) boat. My wife keeps telling me this, so I know it must be true. Put some elbow grease and a little money into it and you'll have something you're proud of.

Good luck, and please keep us updated on how you make out.

Rick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Glass work

You are wrong about the price for glass work, friend, for I am careening the boat for these through-hull eliminations. I am currently navigating the bureaucracy to make sure the process is legal in Washington state. So far it is legal, according to the DNR, Coast Guard, and Department of Ecology.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
991 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It was listed for 2500. The seller lied about the condition of the motor. The block was welded together, and the head gasket blew within a couple hours. He said he never had any problems. Welding a (presumably cracked) block back together is a problem.

I am happy with the boat, though. It is a classic.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top