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You can hold onto any opinion you want but when those ideas are in error you must be called on it. You contribute nothing when you spread falsehoods. Saying surveyors have no accreditation is false. Whether you like surveyors or not is of little value. So unless you have something truthful and of value to contribute then go ahead, otherwise...
Just so you know, marine surveyors are in the same category as home inspectors, there is no government regulated requirement, like doctors, or lawyers, or insurance companies.

There are however, organizations that have established themselves as regulators for the business itself. They define the group to help the business have meaning.

If you can join the group you are deemed to have conformed to their polices and therefore accepted by the community as accredited. But, joining the group is defined by paying your dues and meeting a certain number of hours of training.

Building Inspectors, General Contractors, are really the only group in this category that actual have to take a state sponsored test to be able to do business.

Home inspectors and marine survivors are really a group of guys, and girls, who have created a business for insurance companies. Some are good and some not so good. Just hope they have done more than just paid their dues to join the club that gives them accountability.

I once was Home Inspector.
 

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You can hold onto any opinion you want but when those ideas are in error you must be called on it. You contribute nothing when you spread falsehoods. Saying surveyors have no accreditation is false. Whether you like surveyors or not is of little value. So unless you have something truthful and of value to contribute then go ahead, otherwise...
You name me one university, college or government recognized trade school that offers a diploma or a degree or a government recognized trade certificate that states you are a marine surveyor and I will eat every word I have typed.

I'm not going to stoop so low as to call anyone a liar but I am calling you on this ebs001.
 

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Now the only question is whether anyone recognizes a certificate from Chapman. The trade associations won't take it in place of their experience criteria, will they?

Will insurers accept oit as a credential to hire someone as a surveyor?
 

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A graduation certificate is nothing more than a participation certificate. It shows that you have completed a course and you have achieved the expected standards of the school, not the industry.
A 180 hour course is simply an introduction into this industry.
This certificate means nothing outside of this college.
I would hope that when marine surveying becomes a recognized trade or a profession that the standards are as high or higher than what SAMS is teaching and not what some college has decided will be the trade standard.
Any thoughts on that ebs001?
 

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I'm not sure that SAMS OR NAMS standards need to be any different, but it seems they could be better monitored or more selectively awarded.

For example, why not have a process where the organization does quality control checks with random recipients of a survey.
 

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As far as training I agree that SAMS has it together. The problem with SAMS is they are making a lot of money for doing very little.
If you have the opportunity to train people to your own standards, charge them what ever you want and have no recourse from anyone to dispute what you are doing, well thats a monopoly.
Why would you give that up too compitition from every university, college and trade school across north america. You would be shooting yourself in the financial foot. I believe this is part of the reason why marine surveying is not a recognized trade or profession as there is no incentive to do so. The other reason is there is just too much for one person to know and ultimately train someone to know.
There are far to many systems on a boat for any one person to have a complete grasp on everything. What would be a better way is for ticketed tradesmen to inspect each system. A marine electrician can focus on the wiring, a marine mechanic can inspect the propulsion systems, a marine engineer can focus on structure and so on.
What I don't agree with is an uncontrolled industry having such power over people and their assets.
When I hear someone say ,"I can run circles around any surveyor". Well thats the last guy I would want to hire to survey my boat, but that's what you get with an unregulated industry.
A self policing industry that does it's own quality control checks won't work either as there is an element for back patting which seems to already exsist.
I tend to look at marine surveyors this way; it's like giving someone your watch and then asking them what time it is.
What are your thoughts on that ebs001?
 

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So what are your thoughts on this topic ebs001?
All you have contributed so far is to accuse me of spreading misstruths, basically calling me a liar. Then you offer nothing to back up what you say????. wtf
 

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dogship, that school does have state and national accredations, and that status does indeed give their certificates and degrees some status as legitimate. A certificate program may not be a "trade" certificate and it may be less than a full degree, but then again, they're all on the same par.

It is indeed a certificate, from an accredited source, which seems to consider a "degree" in that niche as not necessary. Most of today's degrees, including doctorates, are established in exactly the same way. Whatever an academic or guild decided they should be. Attorneys promoted themselves from bachelorates (LLB) to doctorates (JD) without changing the materials involved at all. MDs, dentists, chiropractors, osteopaths, continue to wage wars but all practice "medicine".

180 hours of training as a surveyor? Do you really need more than that to tell when something is broken? It is a formal course, program, curriculum. That's the start of a "standard".
 

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I had to got class for two years and over 1000 hours just to get good basic skills you would have to be pretty advanced to do much with 180 hours ;)
 

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Wilson Tech no longer offers that Mechanics course, although they've got a similar program now. But that's a moot point since your courses are supposed to teach you how to operate and repair, where a surveyor doesn't need to know how to fix things, he just needs to know "that's busted". [sic]

Don't need to know how to use a torque wrench or why head bolts aren't re-used, to know an engine is going to need a tear-down.
 

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I would call my insurance agent, and even the surety representative directly. Sometimes it takes a couple of calls to get to someone knowledgeable enough to interpret the policy language for you. Discuss the specifics and listen to what what they say. You might be okay.

If you are being treated unfairly, then its time to call another insurance company.
I agree with this, I was facing a similar situation recently and had to choose another company as it was really hard to handle as they were unfairly increasing price, these days it's hard to choose the best company as most of them are good in start but they gradually increase the price as days passed
 

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Your boat has a stated or agreed value the insurance company will pay you based on that agreed value. They simply want to make sure your boat remains at that value. Yeah ok so some seem silly but remember there is some person sitting in a cubical looking at hundreds of these reports, That person may never have been on a boat in their life. Insurance companies always get a bit skiddish after a big storm.

Also a pressure gauge in your propane system is USCG law not something that is just highly recommended. The gauge is to check for leaks and you really need to have that in there for your own safety.
Please provide a link to the USCG "law" for pleasurecraft.
 

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I hate beating a dead horse but;
Marine surveyors use many credentials, letters and terms such as "accredited", "certified", "qualifed", "AMS", "CMS", etc. There are many ways to train to become a marine surveyor including taking correspondence courses, apprenticing, or simply opening a business.
However, marine surveyors pursue their profession independently of required organizations, and there is currently no national or international licensing requirement for marine surveyors.
All association terms and initials represent training and certification are by private organizations.
Enough said.
Agree ! as a Surveyor you may be interested in my take on the situation.
 

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I'm not sure that SAMS OR NAMS standards need to be any different, but it seems they could be better monitored or more selectively awarded.

For example, why not have a process where the organization does quality control checks with random recipients of a survey.
As a retired SAMS AMS. My issue with SAMS is that they accept members as SA's (Surveyor Associates) that are given 5yrs to take and pass the "Accredited" exam. Few understand the SA's are beginners and fly under the SAMS flag for five years. Most do not pass the "accreditation" exam and fall out of the profession. Many of these people were incompetent to begin with but lasted for 5yrs as a SAMS SA due to the name of SAMS.
Other than that issue, I believe the SAMS program which demands continuing education credits is a worthwhile one.
 

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This thread is over 8 years old and some of the posters being quoted haven't been heard from in almost as much time.
 

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This thread is over 8 years old and some of the posters being quoted haven't been heard from in almost as much time.
Does that make a difference ?
 

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Please provide a link to the USCG "law" for pleasurecraft.
While it was established by the US Congress, and enforced by the Coast Guard, I believe Chapter 155 is what you are looking for:

It has been updated at various times in my life such as adding a requirement to provide bilge ventilation for gasoline powered boats. I owned a 1939 Stadel Cutter with a gasoline Universal Blue Jacket engine. (2 cyl. half of an Atomic 4). The main electrical power switch and the ignition switch were knife switches located right above the carburetor. After seeing that, I understood why the law was needed.

Jeff
 
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