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Discussion Starter · #4,261 ·
Route des Princes

Very interesting this race with three different types of trimarans: 50ft, 70ft and unlimited with only one racing on that class, the 80ft long Price de la Bretagne and I say interesting because the little boats, even without my preferred one (crepes whaou), are putting a big fight against the bigger boats and lead the race till near Gibraltar. Only then the Maxi trimaran and one of the Mod70 were able to pass the three leading 50ft boats that even so are not far away and way ahead of the remaining Mod70. What a fight:D

It has been a difficult race, most the way upwind and more upwind ahead, probably with 3 meters waves, while going up the West coast of Portugal till Lisbon with 15K winds. It is going to be an uncomfortable and wet ride, but a fast one;)

Route des Princes 2013

 

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Discussion Starter · #4,262 ·
Tan 66

and since we are talking about multihulls...


the Tan 66 a Marc Van Peteghem design, built by Marsaudon Composite. An all carbon boat made on a shipyard that makes a lot of racing boats. A fast one no doubt.

On the last years the number of big fast casts has increased a lot. It seems conservatism is finally going away in what regards millionaires boats, not only in what regards multihulls but also monohulls: They are more and more modern, faster and faster.
 

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While I'm a big fan of the racing multis, when it comes to cruising I tend to view muiltihulls as boats for those who prefer not to hold their wine glass while underway.

On the other hand, if you want (have) to go cruising with a wife / family that prefers all the comforts of shore-based living, including the pets, then perhaps it is the perfect solution.

For me, I can't see myself cruising in a multihull. It just wouldn't feel right.

Still beautiful to look at, however.
 

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Re: Sailing and Hungary

Well, they don't have a sea but they have lake Balaton and lots of wind:D:
Wow, what a hate mission for those poor bastards on the Melges 24. :D

They certainly do have a lot of wind on Lake Balaton, and it also appears that they only sail upwind, as I did not see any video of a boat going downwind. Does it mean the lake is only one way? ;)

It was interesting to see how stiff those long, narrow boats are. Crew is sitting comfortably in the cockpit as they simply power through the chop like butter. Impressive. The more modern designs - the ones without 15 fellows on the trapeze - really struggle in the puffs, even with reefed mains - e.g., the X Yachts and the Hanse, as well as several other light displacement fin-keelers.

In the second video, which starts out with the boat going upwind on jib only, I immediately thought to myself: "I wonder where all the windsurfers and kite boarders are?" Then immediately a windsurfer flashes across the screen. :)

Anyway, looks like a lot of fun, plus you don't have to rinse salt off everything when you're done. How cool is that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4,266 · (Edited)
Hungarian sailboats: Nau 370

I have posted those videos not only because I didn't knew that in Hungary they have a strong sail activity but also because I saw among those sailboats some modern ones that I didn't recognize. A little search and BIG SURPRISE:

Look at this beauty, designed by Andrej Justin, a Slovenia NA (one that I had already mentioned about another boat) and made by Nautic, a local shipyard with lots of activity and some new beautiful boats.

look at this beauty:



low tech boats? Hummmm:

"The new model of the Nautic range which follows our philosophy: combining elegance, speed and of course comfort.
Combination of these great features created by Andrej Justin, just as before, who earned international reputation by the RC44 project.The extravagant appearance of the boat reflects the latest trends, paying attention for performance. The large cockpit and interior spaces are unique in this category.

Hull:
Hull and deck fully made of carbon-epoxy sandwich structure with AIREX PVC foam core. Main pieces is pruduced with the latest vacuum infusion technology to reach maximum strength at lowest weight. The hull gains its final stiffness by high temperature heat cure. The coating of the boat made of UV resistant isoftal based gelcoat. Hull and deck is joined by bonding and lamination.

Keel:
”T” shaped structure built up from surface coated steel frame covered by foil and fitted with a cast lead bulb in a weight of 1300 kgs encapsulated in GRP to get perfect shape and prevent corrosion. Keel structure is bonded to the hull recess and also connected by stainless steel bolts to the keelbox through the hull.

Steering:
Elliptical balance rudder with aluminum or stainless steel shaft covered by GRP foil shape. Self aligning bearings and complete steering gears provided by Jefa with a leather covered dual spoke aluminum wheel in a size of 1700 mm. This system gives a very smooth and accurate steering.

Cockpit:
A very spacious cockpit allows comfortable cruising and easy and fluent movement during racing for the crew. Four lockers help to storage auxiliary stuff. Seats and transom bridge is coverd in teak. A self draining locker can be found below helmsman’s position for general use or for life raft. At the stern a power retractable bathing platform installed with a recessed bathing ladder.

Interior:
The huge interior is available in a two cabin and three cabin versions. Interior GRP modules made of epoxy to ensure a winning combination of durability and lightweigth. GRP surfaces comes in white glossy finish equipped with wooden slats and frames for aesthetic look. Two cabin version offers a large aft cabin with much space for two persons and also a spacious front cabin for another two persons, while three cabin layout offers two standard aft cabins and a front cabin for six persons. All the cabins separated by doors from the saloon. Floorboards are made from marine plywood with white striped mahogany finish. Saloon provides two large couches comfortable for six people. The large double leaf fold down table is removable to gain maximum space. Bathroom located behind navigation table separated with door. In three cabin layout it is placed by front cabin accessible from saloon.

Galley takes place at the left of saloon right next to the companionway. L shaped section ensures easy handling of gas stove, compressor cool box and double stainless steel sink. Workbench is made of high resistance sheet. Lockers fitted for kitchen stuffs. Navigation station is at the opposite of galley, build up from a chart table, lockers for devices and a bracket for optional navigation instruments.Lighting are halogen spot lights in the ceilings for general use, and adjustable spots for reading in every cabin. Adjustable powered LED stripes installed in the saloon for oblique moodlighting."


Have a good look at the boat, a very nice one:

Nautic Boat - Nautic Boat - Nautic 370

except for a lousy galley and (in that boat) no true head?
I like almost everything about the boat, with the exception of the interior points I mentioned and the quality seems okay.
This seems to be much of a custom boat so it should not be difficult to get a decent cruising interior.

Technical data of the NAU 370 RUN:

Overall length: 10.990 m
​​Waterline Length: 10.485 m
Overall width: 3.460
Height: 1900 mm
Draft - lake / sea: 1.95m/2.45 m
Keel: 1600 kg
Total weight carbon 4000 kg

It can also be made in fiberglass and in that case it will weight more 600kg

Should be very fast and stiff, specially with the deep draft. It seems that it is not only the Polish that are making great sailboats:D

And it is not the only one. that was the one that caught my attention on the movie: 44ft racer by the same NA:


Yes the movie sucks but the boat has only 3000kg and that's a 44fter:eek:

Have a look here:

Nautic Boat - Nautic Boat - Nautic 12 Racer
 

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Discussion Starter · #4,267 · (Edited)
Dragonfly 32

While I'm a big fan of the racing multis, when it comes to cruising I tend to view muiltihulls as boats for those who prefer not to hold their wine glass while underway.

On the other hand, if you want (have) to go cruising with a wife / family that prefers all the comforts of shore-based living, including the pets, then perhaps it is the perfect solution.

For me, I can't see myself cruising in a multihull. It just wouldn't feel right.

Still beautiful to look at, however.
And in what I hope would be my last post for some time let me say to Mr Pelicano that I disagree. If not for the price I would love to have one of these:


The monohull is a Pogo 50 and it made 4th overall in the last ARC among 300 sailboats beating many racer cruisers much bigger. well, there was not a Dragonfly 32 making that Transat otherwise it would have ashamed a lot of boats, multihulls and monohulls alike.

To be true I would have preferred the Dragonfly 35 but the 32 as such a smart and good quality interior that I would not mind to cruise in one, quite the contrary.

The 35:



In fact the 32 is a superior design and the detail of the stairs sliding around to give access to the back cabin or to allow space to work on the galley is just a great design, as the location of the refrigerator. The diference in interior space is not what one would expect between a 32 and a 35ft boat.

By the way I visited the boat in Dusseldorf and the guy from the shipyard was making fun of me because I could not find the refrigerator. Yes It has one and a very big one for a 32ft boat and yes, I could not find the dam thing without the him telling me where to look. Of course my wife is not of the same opinion in what regards interior space, so that ends up dreaming of having one:rolleyes:


Regards

Paulo
 

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Enjoy your summer cruise, Paulo!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4,269 · (Edited)
Elan 400

Enjoy your summer cruise, Paulo!
Thanks all.

All is packed up:). Leaving tomorrow.

One more post, the Elan 400 test sail by YachtingMonthly.

The last words pretty much sums it up : It's quick.. It performed beautifully...it feels wonderfully...it felt delicious..it is huge fun ....It looks amazing, it sails like a dream.

..and this tester is known to be a man that normally does not make a lot of praises about the boats he tests. Fact is that when he is not impressed he pretty much describes the boat. It seems that he was impressed by this one:D

 

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Re,OSTAR and proposed decline in "greatness" at the top of this thread, could not disagree more. Hasler proposed the race originally: "to encourage the development of suitable boats gear and techniques for single-handed ocean crossings under sail". This a direct quote from "Blondie" by Ewen sSouthby-Tailyour's, published by Leo Cooper 1998, 2003. The entries in years subsequent to 1960 all conformed to this goal.The historical fact that the Race gave birth to the entire single handed racing scene as we know it to day is a lasting tribute to Haslers vision. The fact that the Big Solo Races of today are in boats inconceivable in Haslers day is I suggest irreverent. Today's entrants are exercising the same learning and testing skill and in boats that I suggest would have Hasler smiling today. This race going on now is precisely the OSTAR. The development of "The Transat" by OC's Mark Tuner was in response to the "OSTAR getting to unwieldy and unsuited for the demands of a professional sport and in no way diminishes the present race.
Cheers joe cooper middletown RI
 

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Hasler proposed the race originally: "to encourage the development of suitable boats gear and techniques for single-handed ocean crossings under sail".
Hi Joe - Not to split hairs or anything, but if the purpose of the race was as stated - i.e., to encourage the development of suitable boats, gear, etc... - I think Paulo does have a point when he notes the OSTAR has become essentially a "sail what you got" race open to those who would otherwise not be able to compete in one of the Transats oriented more toward professionals.

Personally, I would suggest that the Mini Transat 6.50 is actually more in keeping with the spirit of Hasler's original goal. Classe Mini is a seething cauldron of innovation, attracting both professionals and amateurs, many sailing boats they've designed and built themselves. At the same time, it's a Transat that anyone can afford.

I was following the Mini 6.50 2013 Trophée Marie-Agnes Péron (MAP) race the past two days, and the competition in both the Proto and Series classes was incredible. And as if to reinforce that you don't have to break the bank to be competitive, the 7th placed Proto is boat 198 (we're up in the low 900s for 6.50s these days), while the boat that won (747) was designed and built by its original owner (David Raison) who went out and won the 2011 Transat in it.

So, if you compare / contrast the OSTAR in its current format with the Mini Transat, I think one might agree it is truly the latter that is encouraging the development of suitable boats, gear, etc. for solo ocean crossings. Thus, if the former were more like the latter, it would more truly reflect its founder's original intent.

Having said that, crossing oceans alone, in a sailboat, is a significant accomplishment no matter what you're sailing, so I in no way wish to diminish the achievements of the OSTAR competitors. It's just not much of a race, is all. :)

Best,

MrP (your neighbor at the west end of LIS)
 

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Meanwhile, at the Solitaire de Figaro, I am not in the least surprised to see Fredric Duthil quietly laying the groundwork to assume the overall lead in the race. While Yann Eliés and Armel Le Cléac'h have fallen 2-4 miles to the back of the fleet, Duthil is currently up in third position, within sight of the two leaders. He was my favorite when the event began, and I have not been disappointed.

Of course, as we learned from the last leg, when it appeared for some time that Gildas Morvan would run away with the win, the wind gods smile on whoever they like, and coming into Giron that "whoever" turned out to be Le Cléac'h. The Solitaire is such a technical race precisely because it is a "near" offshore event, which means that geography plays a much bigger part in affecting the wind conditions at any given instant, not to mention the strong currents to negotiate. Yes, this is an event that grooms future IMOCA champions for sure, but I think it is pretty challenging in its own right. And just because your name is engraved on the trophy from the past, doesn't mean you will dominate in the present. :)

I hope everyone was paying attention to the Trophée Marie-Agnes Péron Mini 6.50 race, which just concluded a couple hours ago. It gave us a preview of what I think we will see on the 2013 Transat proper. Indeed, it actually gave us a reminder of the 2011 Transat, as Giancarlo Pedote sailed David Raison's famous 747 scow mini - winner of the 2011 Transat - to victory in the 2013 Trophée MAP, besting Gwénolé Gahinet, sailing Antoine Rioux's 800 (which finished 3rd in the 2011 Transat) by 27 minutes. Oh, by the way, Gahinet finished first in the Series class in the 2011 Transat. :).

In third place was Bertrand Delesne (754), who also finished 3rd overall in the 2011 Transat in that boat. Right behind Delesne we find Joerg Riechers, 5th place finisher in the 2011 Transat, in his 753.

I also want to note that Sébastien Picault sailed his "antique" 198 to seventh in the Trophée MAP - the same boat he sailed to a 12th (out of 36) place finish in the 2011 Transat! That is some amazing sailing and a lot of confidence in your boat; one can imagine him being a major contender in a newer boat, but sometimes you sail what you love. :D

Really looking forward to the 2013 Transat later in the year. I think it is going to be an epic race, finishing in a new destination - Martinique rather than Brazil. Just wish I was doing it.
 

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OSTAR is a Run wot ya brung? Exactly! Jester, gipsy moth what ever number, a 19 footer (pre mini, mini even before sopranino) a folk boat and a vertue. The time spread between
Chichester and le comb was about 40 days I reckon so arguements about the non race aspects of the present edition does no justice to the race, its history or the competitors. Is it s race? Come to Newport and tellRichard Lett and Jack Sandberg that they were not in a race. I'd be interested to hear their response.
Yes the mini t is a great ever but frankly it too has progresses a long way from Bob Salmons original idea.Agree the minis in particular and solo offshore racing in general offer much more to the average weekend warrior than Larry's Great Adventure. For more on this read wind check mag one or two issues ago-coops corner. Oh BTW David Raison is a naval archeticht, hardly the average bear Hasler had in mind. Cheers cooper
 

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Joe - Not saying OSTAR is not a race, just not necessarily the race Hasler envisioned. Sure everyone sailed what they had at the time, but if that was the long term intent, then perhaps Blondie might have phrased his vision a bit differently. For me personally, racing very old technology is not the best manifestation of "encouraging development..." one can think of. And I think this is what Paulo was reacting to.

If the OSTAR is intended as simply a race-what-ya-got primarily for the under 50' / non-professional crowd, then that makes it more like the ARC and less like the Transat Jacques Vabre, which is perfectly fine. But that suggests that we ought not take Hasler's vision too seriously, which is also fine.

I was aware that DR is a naval architect, though certainly not a well known one before he built the famous scow (747). There are other guys in the Classe Mini who are not NAs who have designed and/or built their own boats. And while I doubt Bob Salmon envisioned that his Transat would eventually become the gateway to professional solo offshore racing that it is today, this description from Wikipedia nicely captures, to my mind, the irony of what OSTAR is today:

"Bob Salmon developed the idea of a mini-transatlantic race in the late 1970s in England with the intent of promoting affordable offshore solo racing. It was partially conceived as a response to the trend for bigger and more expensive boats such as sailed in the OSTAR race that seemed to exclude ocean racing for sailors with moderate budgets."

If true, it suggests that OSTAR quickly became something other than Hasler envisioned and that today's OSTAR is more in keeping with what he (and Salmon, for that matter) had in mind. However, in that case Hasler probably should have expressed his vision differently, IMHO. Anyway, Paulo sees the OSTAR that Salmon was reacting to as the golden era of that event, while he sees today's version as a move in the wrong direction.

Actually (since I'm already beating a dead horse - no actual horses injured, of course), I would say that another race, near and dear to Paulo's heart, is probably close to what OSTAR ought to be, if we want to take Hasler at his word: The Transquadra. That race is designed to keep things affordable while, at the same time, leaving open room for innovation - albeit, probably not for amateur design/build. But it is driving the development of some outstanding performance cruising yachts, suitable for solo ocean crossing, from the likes of JPK, RM, Jeanneau, and Structures (Pogo). Just before he left to go cruising, Paulo sent me information on the newly announced RM 890, which will bring the qualities of RM boats at a more affordable (for me) price. :) But until it's built, I'm still ogling the Malango 888 and 999.



 

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