SailNet Community banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1541 - 1560 of 6510 Posts

·
Top Sekret Ninja Sailor
Joined
·
226 Posts
Paulo -

In a recent post, you gave two different definitions of prismatic coefficient - one was not correct.

This one is incorrect - this one is the definition of block coefficient.

Prismatic Coefficient is a mathematical measurement of the relative shape of the bow and stern of the boat. It displays the ratio of the underwater volume of the hull relative to a rectangular block.
And this is the correct one:

We express the "full hull" property by the prismatic coefficient, which is the ratio of volume displaced to the product of waterline length and maximum cross-sectional area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,544 · (Edited)
Paulo -

In a recent post, you gave two different definitions of prismatic coefficient - one was not correct.

This one is incorrect - this one is the definition of block coefficient.

Quote:
Prismatic Coefficient is a mathematical measurement of the relative shape of the bow and stern of the boat. It displays the ratio of the underwater volume of the hull relative to a rectangular block.

And this is the correct one:

Quote:
We express the "full hull" property by the prismatic coefficient, which is the ratio of volume displaced to the product of waterline length and maximum cross-sectional area.
Slap, I was quoting, not giving definitions and both quotes seems correct to me. The problem here is that is difficult to translate mathematical definitions to words.

In fact both the Prismatic coefficient and the block coefficient are ratios to a box or a prismatic figure as you want to put it.

Block Coefficient... If you draw a box around the submerged part of the ship, it is the ratio of the box volume occupied by the ship.

Prismatic Coefficient... It displays the ratio of the immersed volume of the hull to a volume of a prism with equal length to the ship and cross-sectional area equal to the largest underwater section of the hull (midship section).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_(watercraft)

These drawings explain it clearly:



http://www.marinetechs.com/Definitions,27

The guy you have said that had given an incorrect definition explains it more detailed (and correctly) on the linked text with this figure an comments:



From the diagram, the longitudinal Cp = Volume / (Am x Lpp) Volume = volume of hull at draft T Am = midship section area (at given draft T, in figure) Lpp = length between perpendiculars.

http://nasailor.com/2011/06/05/boat...-should-know-about-the-prismatic-coefficient/

Regards

Paulo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,545 · (Edited)
Slap,

Thanks for posting about the PT-11.



Lovely boat but with all the problems trimarans have versus same interior sized monohulls: price:(

The interior is functional but quite impersonal for living aboard. I guess not better than this one from the Corsair 37:







and this one is not so expensive and has the advantage of folding the arms for not paying the double in a marina.

I have to say that the PT 11 looks better (on the outside) and is probably a bit faster but the Corsair does also look good, particularly in its all carbon version that even so it is less expensive than the PT 11.



But if money is not a problem neither space at the marina or the stark interior, for the ones that like to have fun....what a bird!!!!!:D















Regards

Paulo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,546 ·


New 360º photo for the Salona 38. Inside and outside, lots of views.

360 - Salona Yachts

The design and quality are good but they have to find another upholsterer:(. The cushions don't match and that's not the first time that I have saw that on a Salona. How difficult is that? :rolleyes:.

The head on the three cabin boat (this one) is too small. It is a good one on the two cabin boat.

Outside the cockpit is really great, except that table that the only advantage is that it can be taken away and mounted in no time. I know that they are studding a new one, hopefully better looking and with handholds for the ones that sail with the table on (it will also be a removable one).

Also a movie taken by the magazine Vela in the Genova boat show:

Salona 38 new.wmv - YouTube

....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,547 ·


The same for the Xp 38, I mean, the movie made by the same magazine in the Genoa boat show. They don't have yet a 360º photo of this one.

Xp 38 new.wmv - YouTube

The cockpit is very similar to the one from Salona and I just love the bowsprit. They guys from Salona are working in one for the 38 and I can just wait that it looks as awesome as this one.

The quality looks good but the Salona is warmer and the cabin of this one looks smaller. I guess that is because they have the head not in front but in the boat center and that makes the saloon smaller. This head is bigger than the one in the three cabin Salona (this is also the three cabin version), but smaller than the one in the Salona two cabin version.

Funny, I cannot find on the x yacht site the drawings for the two cabin version. This is the only version?

..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,548 · (Edited)
In the Genova boat show Vela Magazine made also movies about some other boats:

Sly 42 Fun

Sly 42 Fun new.wmv - YouTube

Bavaria 50 cruiser

Bavaria 50 Cruiser new - YouTube

also from FareVela:

http://www.yacht.de/multimedia/yacht_tv/test_technik/entspannung-bei-6-beaufort/a64063.html

Hanse 385

Hanse 385 new - YouTube

Not from Vela magazine, just a good advertiser from Hanse:


Catalina 355

Catalina 355 new - YouTube

and since we are talking about Catalina, another good movie made by the German magazine Yacht that tested the 375 (with 6 Beaufort)

http://www.yacht.de/multimedia/yacht_tv/test_technik/entspannung-bei-6-beaufort/a64063.html

....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,550 · (Edited)
I have not yet posted about Shipman and that is strange because they are among the sailboats I like more:D. If I had a lot of money this would be probably on my short list because they are beautiful, fast, small draft (lifting keel), with great panoramic interiors, a lot less expensive than custom made boats and are designed to be solo sailed. That ability to be sailed solo or with a very small crew is very rare among big sailboats, and the Shipman are big. The Smallest is a 63ft.

On the year that they made that one it won the European boat of the year contest in its category and I remember that the one that was second, the Halberg Rassy 54 had an higher price (or costed about the same?). Anyhow I remember having been surprised by the "low" Shipman price, specially because this is a carbon boat and a Danish one and Danish boats are normally expensive boats (the Shipman is not built in Denmark)

Take a look at some photos of some of their boats:

The 72fter

The 80ft

80ft

Take a look at these movies about the 80ft and the 63ft:

Shipman 80 - official video - YouTube

ASW 2011 Antigua Sailing Week 2011 Shipman 63 boat speed 21kts - YouTube

They say about their boats:

We had a vision.
We wanted to create a sailing yacht for visiting the world's most attractive cruising grounds that would be indulgently relaxing, comfortable and yet would not sacrifice the feel and speed of a racing craft. She would need to be reliable and seaworthy in all conditions, simple to control and capable of sustaining high speeds under sail or engine for an extended period, with a minimal crew.

It should be of sophisticated design, yet simple to maintain.
It should be fast, but easy to control.
It should be stable, but still capable of exploring shallow bays.
It should make life for the owner easy and stress free.
It should be of sufficient strength, range and equipment to allow a summer in the Med, a winter in the CARIBBEAN and two transatlantic crossings per year, all without effort and stress.

A Shipman is defined as a single-handed pilothouse high-performance yacht.

Fast and strong, seaworthy, easy to sail and handle, functional and good looking, she is the racer's world cruiser.

In recent years, advances in technology have led to dramatic improvements in performance. Offshore multihulls, Open 60s and Volvo racers have smashed all records and set the standards of ocean-going speed to new and incredible levels.
The secret of these racers' speed potential lies in a new technology developed around two materials: CARBON fibres and EPOXY resin. When resin systems are combined with reinforcing fibres such as carbon, exceptional properties can be obtained. The resin matrix spreads the load applied to the composite between each of the individual fibres and also protects the fibres from damage caused by abrasion and impact.

These modern materials give a stronger and stiffer boat and are the key factor in the dramatic increase in performance of today's racing boats. The use of these exotic materials is the main price-influencing factor (together with the carbon rig) but the only way to lower displacement, bringing easy handling and high performance.

For this reason, these materials have, until now, only been available to those with a one-off budget. But now, Shipman has made a series of important developments in the design and building process to enable the production of a high-tech, high-performance yacht at moderate cost. All Shipman carbon yachts incorporate these new techniques to redefine cruising performance without compromising safety or durability.


But of course if the 80ft is not big enough to you they had proposals till the 150ft sailboat.

Just look at the 130ft boat, that is able to make 9k speed with 6k wind and 12kspeed with 8k wind. About max speed with strong winds I don't know but the small one (63fr) is able to do over 20K. Regarding the max speed on the 80ft, I just don't know but I dare to say that will be a lot more than 20K.

Of course if you want to go faster you have just to have the 150ft:D





 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,551 · (Edited)
Do you know Shaw boats?

They are designed and made by Robert Shaw and they are mostly racers, interesting and fast boats, with a cruiser-racer on the line and if some think that I post some radical performance cruisers take a look at the numbers of this one:



Principal Dimensions
LOA 10.6m
LWL 9.8m
Beam 3.2m
Draft 3m
Displacement 2800kg
Sail Area
Upwind 84m2
Main 51m2
Jib 33m2
Gennaker 160m2

They say about the 10.6m Cruise/Race

The Shaw 10.6 Cruise/Race is designed for harbour and coastal racing, with the ability to go offshore in races such as Auckland-Fiji. It has a canting keel, and can be cruised or raced short-handed by two crew or fully crewed with up to eight sailors. It has a moderate-volume interior which makes for comfortable cruising without comprimising race performance.


But most of them are coastal racers with the exception of this one , the 9m that is not only designed for coastal racing but as also the ability to go offshore in races such as Auckland-Fiji or the Transpac.

It has a canting keel a forward canard or twin dagger boards and needs a four or five crew to tame it:D




But all of them look beautiful to me:









The smaller ones, like this one, are a bit wet to sail even if great fun:



To see what I mean just see this movie, it is hilarious:D:D:D:D:

Monkey Business at Airlie 2011 - YouTube

...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
...the Shipman are big. The Smallest is a 63ft.

On the year that they made that one it won the European boat of the year contest in its category and I remember that the one that was second, the Halberg Rassy 54 had an higher price (or costed about the same?). Anyhow I remember having been surprised by the "low" Shipman price, specially because this is a carbon boat and a Danish one and Danish boats are normally expensive boats (the Shipman is not built in Denmark
European boat of the year was...

Shipman 50 concept was born in 2001. The idea of a new singlehanded high-performance pilothouse offshore cruiser was developed by Joergen Bonde, the Danish owner of Shipman Yachts, and Jernej and Japec Jakopin of Slovenian J&J Design/Seaway. The carbon/epoxy prepreg technology was generously transferred by Bill Green of Green Marine in Lymington (UK), and the materials engineering and supply came from Giovanni Belgrano of SP Systems in Cowes (UK). The result surpassed expectations : Shipman 50 was elected the overall winner of European Boat Of The Year 2003 contest by 11 votes coming from 11 participating countries in January 2004. Shipman 50 was faster, more easily handled, stronger and more comfortable than any comparable boat giving new feeling of performance and enjoyment to cruising and club racing. 11 boats were sold to 9 countries. Complete tooling set was lost in a fire on April 11th 2007.

Today several used Shipman 50 are for sale (priced at 700k EUR). As far as I remember new Shipman 72 price was +4 mio EUR and Shipman 63 +2.5 mio EUR. This price tag probably "low" for Russian oligarchs as majority of Shipmans are owned by them.

Take a look at this post of new Shipman 80 launch. Also if interested check blog of this Russian Shipman 72 skipper (he is also Shipman dealer). Unfortunately blog is in Russian, but almost every post comes with nice pictures.

Also take a look at red Shipman 72 'Moksha' gallery and don't forget to check the wall with news like "we broke Moksha's personal speed record maxing out at 22.2knots" :eek::eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,553 · (Edited)
European boat of the year was...

Shipman 50 concept was born in 2001. ... Shipman 50 was elected the overall winner of European Boat Of The Year 2003 contest by 11 votes coming from 11 participating countries in January 2004. Shipman 50 was faster, more easily handled, stronger and more comfortable than any comparable boat giving new feeling of performance and enjoyment to cruising and club racing. 11 boats were sold to 9 countries...
Thanks for remember that and for the links. Yes you are right, the first one was a 50ft. When I said that the smaller of the Shipman was the 63ft I was referring to today's production. The one that has started it all 8 years ago was the Shipman 50, that was already a beautiful boat:



Regards

Paulo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,554 · (Edited)
Half surprise from Halber-Rassy: What seemed to be an isolated experience with the 372 has turning now on a new line. HR is making a new aft cockpit boat, the HR 412.

On HR, Only boats smaller than 37ft were aft cockpit boats, the offshore HR were basically center cockpit boats but now, with the sells from the 37 center cockpit much worse than the ones from the 372 (aft cockpit) and losing sales to the new line of cruising boats from X yachts, HR decided to offer a 41ft boat with an aft cockpit. The 40ft center cockpit boat will be maintained.

This boat is also the first beamy HR: 4.11m. The old center cockpit 40ft had only 3.82m.

The boat share similar characteristics with the XC-42 but it seems to me that the XC has a more modern design and surprisingly a bit better D/B ratio.

Anyway, a more modern and good looking HR is always good news. The basic price of the new boat will be around: 435 000 €















 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,555 · (Edited)
I have posted already about the new Arcona 410...that for me is a bit of a delusion. I have hopped for more. The boat is just too close to the old 400 that was already many years old and looked already dated.

Let's compare, this is the "old 400":





And this is the new 410:







It has two wheels instead of one,the transom just a little larger with the beam brought just a bit aft and the interior is, to put it in the words of Yachting world, "a bit dull". Of course this is a boat with a very good quality overall, with a steel structure that distributes the efforts of the keel and shrouds...but I guess dull is the right word for what could be a very interesting sailboat.

Yachting Monthly tested the boat recently and they have said well about everything, from the quality to the sailing performance...except that they found the interior a bit dull, and I would say that uninspired would be the word that I would use for the exterior, particularly the transom design.

Without being innovative their also recent 430 looked comparatively a lot better to me.

This is the yanchtingWorld movie of that sail test:

Arcona 410 Video - YouTube

.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,556 · (Edited)
I am going to post about a beautiful boat, a boat that I would like to own, a classic boat with a modern hull.

Off course modern because it has a bulbed keel to improve weight, but with long overhangs that does not serve any purpose...except an aesthetically one and that are entirely justified...the boat would not make sense without them and who cares about functionalism and that maxim: form follows function. That form only follows a long forgotten rule that had little to do with boat performance:D

The boat, as the others from Fairlie, is designed by Paul Spooner and it is made in a semi custom way. Take a look at this wonderful movie that among other things explain why these boats have to be expensive.

Fairlie 55 -Timelapse.mov - YouTube

The boat is a 55ft boat and Farlie is the shipyard that makes them, as its own boats since this company mainly restores classics.

This Fairlie 55 as just been launched.















One of the big downside of these boats are its small interior dimension. This is a 55ft boat, but the interior has the space of a modern 40ft boat interior.









But the insurmountable problem with a boat like this one, at least for most of us, it is its price. This type of boat is very very expensive, this one costs 1 172 000€.

If we still sailed in boats like these there would very few that could afford a cruiser with space for all the family;)

They say about the boat:

Designed for both cruising and racing, this magnificent yacht reflects the style and quality of a golden age of yachting. This coupled with a modern underwater body and rig, creates a yacht which is as easy to handle as any modern yacht on the market today. She will be admired and envied in any marina or anchorage and with her performance rig and sails will show many of her closest rivals a clean pair of heels.

The hull is constructed from a laminated mahogany backbone and frames, with a layer of Douglas fir strip planking, two layers of mahogany veneers laid at 45 degrees and one layer fore & aft. The entire structure is laminated using West System Epoxy Resin and is finally covered with two layers of GRP for protection.

The deck is built from a layer of marine plywood grooved on the underside, and laid with 12mm thick, swept teak decking with a varnished king plank, covering boards and toe rail.

The ultra-modern fin and bulb keel has an SG cast iron fin and a lead bulb and is assembled and bolted through the hull structure. The spade rudder is a laminated plywood blade with a stainless steel shaft.

The hull is painted with an Awlgrip / International urethane paint system on the topsides and a hard antifouling.

The Fairlie 55, Spirit of Tradition Yacht

LOA - 16.8m
Lwl - 11.64m
Bmax - 3.5m
draft - 2.3/2.6m
Displacement - 10.1t
Sail Area - 117 sq m
Balast - 40%
On deck the varnish work will be Epiphanes Gloss Varnish.


Take a look at this beautiful movie:

Fairlie 55 - Sailing in the Solent.mov - YouTube

......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,557 · (Edited)
After the beautiful Fairlie 55 let's have a look at the Solaris 44, that was lunched some months ago. The Solaris 44 is also a beautiful boat with the best finish you can find on modern production boats a boat with a smaller LOA, a much bigger interior and considerably faster specially downwind.

Both boats have about the same weight and the same sail area but the LWL of the Solaris is almost 2 meters longer and it will be much more easily driven to hull speed and off course it will plan while the Fairlie will dig into the water and make a big wave. I believe that with very weak winds the match should be very close. The Fairlie is also a fast boat handicapped by its downwind performance and much shorter LWL.

The Solaris 44 is designed by Soto Acebal one of the more creative among contemporary NA, the one that had designed the Soto 40.

The Solaris is not an inexpensive boat, it is one of the most expensive among production boats. It costs about 50% more than a First 45 or a Salona 44. however it has much more interior space than the Farlie 55.... and it will cost almost half the price:(

































And one movies from the Yachtingworld sailtest :

Solaris ONE 44 - YouTube

....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,558 ·
Mylius 14E55

He have recentey talked about the 11m Mylius, well, its big brother is making a show at the "Middle of the Sea" race, the Med classic.

The boat is now in 17th place, just behind a VOR60 and ahead of a X 44 that is making also a great race.

Rolex Middle Sea Race: Welcome

Take a look at the Mylius 14E55

Mylius 14E55 March 2008 - YouTube

This is also an interesting race to compare, on variable wind situations, the performance of the 40class racing boats (several racing) with traditional 40ft performance cruisers, like the First 40, Grand Soleil 40 or J 122.

Rolex Middle Sea Race
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,464 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1,560 ·
I have a question about all these new boats. What happened to the extruded aluminum toe rail? Everyone seems to have gone to teak. No place to hook a snatch block or a preventer. Why?
Well, for the same reason these ones had not one:



They are ugly and ruin the looks of a boat;)

Delphia was the last one to use them but is not using them anymore on the new boats.

Regards

Paulo
 
1541 - 1560 of 6510 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top