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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello,

So i've been running into issues with painting the top side of my San Juan 23 with Interlux Perfection. There are two main issues. One is with paint runs, and the other is paint rollers breaking down.

Concerning paint runs, I recently finished the second coat. I added roughly 10% N233 thinner, and it worked well. I checked for any drips/runs, but couldn't spot anything. The temperature outside was about 72 degrees, so it wasn't very hot.

When I checked the next morning there were several paint runs throughout the hull of the boat, that wasn't there before. I had never experienced this level of runs with the previous coat. Also there was a section of the hull where the high gloss of the paint turned into a satin finish.

I'm also having issues with the rollers. If I use the thin foam rollers recommended by Interlux, they start to break down after only a few minutes. With pieces flacking onto the paint surface. I've gone through about a dozen rollers of different thicknesses and price, and all of them break down before I can finish one coat. It's like i'm painting with battery acid! :)

Everyone has told me that Interlux Perfection is the way to go, but if I had known this paint is so darn temperamental, I wouldn't have bothered.

If anyone has some experience with this paint, and can tell me if i'm doing something wrong, i'd appreciate it!

Thanks!

Josh
 

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Having sprayed perfection and rolled and tip alwgrip there equally temperamental and not tolerant of any minor mistake or weather variation Any humidity kills the gloss

The rollers I used were redtree foam as recommended in the alwgrip manual

The running thing is common as the first coat over primer is pretty easy compared to the second coat over the now slippery high gloss first coat

Unlike normal two part paints I have sprayed like PPG which take a normal "wet"coat perfection and alwgrip take very thin coats

I went with the stock 2:1:1 or whatever the default mix was and things like waiting for the full induction time before thining are very important

Keep in mind I was looking for 2" with the spray and 10' with the roll & tip


The mast was done twice due to the perfection recall 5 something years back which was good fun and built quite a collection of test cans as the extent of the defect was grossly wrong











The cal 29 was a mind boggling amount of work







My ability to do a 1" paint job on the bicycles I build was no help at all as both paints are so compleatly different than automotive two part
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Having sprayed perfection and rolled and tip alwgrip there equally temperamental and not tolerant of any minor mistake or weather variation Any humidity kills the gloss

The rollers I used were redtree foam as recommended in the alwgrip manual

The running thing is common as the first coat over primer is pretty easy compared to the second coat over the now slippery high gloss first coat

Unlike normal two part paints I have sprayed like PPG which take a normal "wet"coat perfection and alwgrip take very thin coats

I went with the stock 2:1:1 or whatever the default mix was and things like waiting for the full induction time before thining are very important

Keep in mind I was looking for 2" with the spray and 10' with the roll & tip
Thanks for all the details. Boat looks great! :) There was another forum thread that also recommended using redtree rollers. I'll give it a shot! Your point about the second coat being harder to put on, makes a lot of sense.

I wish I could spray it, but I don't have the facilities for it, and i've heard that Perfection is pretty nasty for your health when it aerosolizes.

You mentioned that you used Alwgrip with Perfection. Which Alwgrip product did you use, and was on the last coat?

So do you think I should sand paper out the runs, and then paint another coat with more thinner?

Thanks for all the help!

Josh
 

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I sprayed the mast with perfection using a SATA minjet which is and industrial air brush and would NOT spray anything with a full size gun due to the health risks

I roll & tip the cal 29 with alwgrip due to a greater choice of colors for the desert tan forest green two tone as we were matching it with are all time favorite boat are 1981 J24 which we bought new

 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I sprayed the mast with perfection using a SATA minjet which is and industrial air brush and would NOT spray anything with a full size gun due to the health risks

I roll & tip the cal 29 with alwgrip due to a greater choice of colors for the desert tan forest green two tone as we were matching it with are all time favorite boat are 1981 J24 which we bought new

Gotta love J Boats! :) Thanks for the clarification. I'm debating if I should sand down the runs, which are substantial, and paint another coat of perfection. Hopefully that'll also fix the areas where the finish isn't glossy. Do you think adding more thinner would help? Thanks!
 

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your very right about the heath issue. manufactures dont disclose about the heath hazards unless you ask for the MSDS Sheet.

Did you know that MEKP the catalyst in vinylester and polyester resin is so dangerouse that if a drop gets into your eye or if you wipe your eye and theres a bit of residue from the MEKP on your hand that you will go perminantly blind in 5-10 min. Even flushing your eye with water the second you get it in your eye wont even help. None of that is posted anywhere you purchase it or is known as common knowledge i bet next time you use it now you will wear eye protection and gloves.

Now for the paint your using. All 2 part polyurithanes rolled or sprayed have whats called isocyanate. Isocyanates are what are created to fomr a polymer that cures the paint. Its a reaction to the base and hardener. Of course spraying 2 part poly is going to be alot worse because your atomizing it making it easier to breath in for rolling purposes you should be wearing full facemask with HEPA acid/organic vapour cartridges preferably made by 3M(easierst to source) nitrate gloves and full coveralls. If spraying it is highly advisable to have what i stated above with breathing air supply. I cannot stress that enough .

Isocyanates are powerful irritants to the mucous membranes of the eyes, gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts. Direct skin contact can also cause marked inflammation. Isocyanates causes sensitization to these body systems and with exposure little or large and depending on medical history users are subject to severe asthma, dermatitis, lung cancer, and other posibly fatal side effects.

Im not here to scare you but i think people especially in the marine and automotive DIY and professional level need to know more about the dangers of the chemical they are using. By law any one that selles a chemical period must provide a MSDS and tech data sheet on the material they are selling ..

For problems with your painting that you are having take a look at the Tech Data sheet you can get it from interlux website. it will tell you the ratios of chemicals you need indution time and wet film thickness required with temperature and humidity to coat your object with the best results.

From a professional stand point the optimum humidity range for painting is 35-40% anything above or below that will give you unsatisfactory finnishes that only a professional or some one that does it often enough will know how to adjust for.

Thanks for all the details. Boat looks great! :) There was another forum thread that also recommended using redtree rollers. I'll give it a shot! Your point about the second coat being harder to put on, makes a lot of sense.

I wish I could spray it, but I don't have the facilities for it, and i've heard that Perfection is pretty nasty for your health when it aerosolizes.

You mentioned that you used Alwgrip with Perfection. Which Alwgrip product did you use, and was on the last coat?

So do you think I should sand paper out the runs, and then paint another coat with more thinner?

Thanks for all the help!

Josh
 

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Gotta love J Boats! :) Thanks for the clarification. I'm debating if I should sand down the runs, which are substantial, and paint another coat of perfection. Hopefully that'll also fix the areas where the finish isn't glossy. Do you think adding more thinner would help? Thanks!
Thinner is going to make your paint run more. Thus thinning the paint. try rolling thinner coats and pick a day that is overcast warm but low humidity. Like I said 30-40% for a best result also let your paint sit for a few minutes before you Tip that way you can see if its thicker thus running in a spot and you can spread the paint better when you tip it to even it out. Allowing the paint to sit for a few min before tipping lets any airbubbles for that didnt happen during induction get pushed out also its a really good idea to abrade the whole surface you are painting after 24 hours with a 400 grit sand paper of white scotch brite pad to rough up the surface a bit so the paint has something to bite and hold on to. Another tip is to roll an extreamly thin coat called a tac coat it will dry to a tack really quick then go back over with the roaller a bit heavier then Tip the tack helps hold the paint in place to assist in the prevention of Run.

Paint is defiantly a skill especially when using white as its the hardest shade to coat because there is no pigment and you cant tell the depth unless you know what to look for becasue the light is eaten by the white in laimens terms. Its also why not everyone is a painter because its a skill that takes a while to master.

EDIT: I for got to add let you paint induce ( let it sit) after you mix the hardener and thinner for 20-30 min before you apply. Makes a world of difference.
 

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Barquito
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OK, most are going to think this is nuts, but, you could change over to the one part Interlux Brightsides. I wouldn't do this unless you are doing white b/c you will get some brush marks. It won't last as long, but, it is so much easier to apply, and somewhat cheaper, that you may not mind refreshing it every 5 years. I think you should be able to go directly over the roughed-up Perfection.

My first choice would be Perfection, but, if conditions are not right, would consider Brightsides.

My C22 in Brightsides:


By B27 in Perfection:
 

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I feel for you! I'm going thru paint not properly leveling out on my project & due to cooler/wet weather up here, I'm done till next season. Very, very frustrating....

Sand the runs outs & repaint, sounds like you've rolled it on to thick.
You mentioned the finish going from gloss to flat. If you added additional thinner while you were painting, that could cause this. Sounds like your rollers aren't solvent compatible.

Bob
 

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The isocyanates are the very same compounds that killed hundreds in the infamous Bhopal disaster in India. Aerosolized isocyanates form ultra small liquid-particles that reach into the very small air sacks of your lungs where the greatest damage is done.
You really need fully self contained breathing systems (SCBA) to spray these paints; but, they are very HOT to use and the amount of sweat that forms inside the full face masks to me is quite intolerable.
I do know of a boat painter on the Chesapeake who sprayed such only during windy conditions and kept his body upstream in the air flow and simply incrementally held his breath ... he now has permanent lung damage.

Ive sprayed Brightsides a few times, but the gloss die-back over the next 1-2 years that you get with Brightsides puts it in my 'avoid' list, as you dont want to be doing such a job over and over again. This was my experience with Brightsides many years ago and I would 'guess' that Interlux has improved the rapid oxidation problem - If not, Id now consider to spray an automotive clear-coat over it.

I now prefer to spray gel coat rather than the infernal hassles of boat paint. Especially with computer matched colors ('exact' match of your hull color), pre-mixed for spray availability, gloss additives used in gel, etc. ..... for me is the best, once you buy the gel spray equipment or use an inexpensive disposable Preval sprayer for small 'touch-ups'.
 

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Bombay Explorer 44
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First of all you MUST use brushing reducer. If you get runs it is either too much reducer or too thick.

Here is what I do. Set a sheet of glass near vertical, roll on a THIN coat and tip off. If the brush stroke don't disappear add more reducer, if it runs you have too much reducer. Wipe the glass and try again.
 

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Where did you get your gel coat gun from I have been looking for one
This is the gun that Im currently using. It has a removable 'filter' which plugs when the gel starts to 'kick' - I dont use it because its a PITA.
Amazon.com: G830 2.0 HVLP Gelcoat and Resin Touch-up Spray Gun: Home [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@31zJ8ureKmL

There are guns that have disposable paper pots; but, this one has a polyethylene pot - easy to knock out 'kicked gel' - but do so before it totally hardens. No hassle with trying to continually secure and purchase paper/cardboard pots.

I use 'Preval' disposables for small jobs ... just be sure to remove the Preval 'Filter' as its too much a flow restriction for use with gel; but, pre-filter the gel with a conical paint strainer before it goes into the container, then add the MIBK.
 
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