SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The U.S. military recently spent nearly 3/4 of a million dollars on paint ball guns and sent them to Afghanistan. An M16 is not the best tool to simply disable someone. Load a 10% pepper ball into a toy paint ball gun, and that will stop anyone, including intruders on your boat. Put in a "glass breaker" ball and an intruder will realize he made a bad choice of a boat to invade or steal from. There are a lot of cool ideas in this shop, in a mall, in S. Africa to ward off thieves and lightly armed pirates from a sailboat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,060 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

Wish they didn’t look like guns. Just want to safely go from Grenada to Trinidad or go off my myself and anchor in an isolated place safely. Think any customs or law enforcement will see a gun not an non lethal device at act with that assumption.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

I agree. All of the paintball guns were made for the game and toy market so they have the look, weight and feel of the real thing. There is only one paintball gun I would have and that is the smaller, least military looking thing on the rack. Maybe if it could be made to look like a tool, a torch maybe, used to repair a boat, would help. As Zain said, they had a pink bb pistol which sold out quickly. Watch, in a few years, as the idea of non lethal, but very impressive personal protection develops, a manufacturer will pick up on the idea of producing less military looking products.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

Less-than-lethal or not, a paintball gun is still a firearm because it fires a projectile and you must arm yourself with it.

Firearms are a terrible choice for most people, especially in a small, cramped space.

Not to mention how stupidly cumbersome and bulky paintball guns are. The hopper is a gravity feed unit, so it will only work when vertical. The large air tanks hang off the back or bottom, usually with no other support than the machined aluminum coupler which like to crack when hit, letting all the air out.

Then there is the fact that unless a person routinely trains with that particular weapon system in a cramped space, when the time arises that it is needed they will most likely end up fumbling around and dumping paintballs in to the bilge.

I, a committee of one, strongly recommends a simpler approach to self defense.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

If they have a knife, a paintball gun with pepper spray might work. If they have a gun, you'll likely regret pulling out a paintball or pellet gun. Also, you do need to be aware of laws regarding any weapon.

While I believe in being armed, simplest and well-practiced is best. Confidence and awareness is half the battle.

If people have good ideas for legal self-protection, I'd like to hear them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

SeanM26 We know of a man who was recently sailing north, well off the coast of Somalia. He was alone and down below when two fishermen, armed with machetes came on board. The short story is, the man grabbed his cricket bat, he is Australian, and beat the **** out of both of the intruders. It was all the 2 fishermen could do to work their way to the back of the boat and jump into the ocean. A nearby fishing boat, with two men on board, came around to pluck the two guys out of the water. They then disappeared over the horizon. The owner of the sail boat is certain he gave a couple broken bones and bad bruises to the fishermen's necks, arms and ribs. There was a lot of luck involved in this situation.
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,225 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

From my experience in the West Indies, I seriously doubt any island would allow you to carry a paintball gun, as most don't allow any sort of non-lethal defense items such as stun guns or pepper/mace spray, let alone a firearm, unless you turn them in to customs upon arrival and reclaim them on departure.
However, facing down a firearm, especially one such as an AK, with a paintball gun doesn't sound like a really good idea to me. If someone was trying to do harm to you and yours, why even consider non-lethal defense, especially if it can't be used in any country you visit, which is more likely to be where you might need it.
I consider intelligent sailing plans to be the best bet, like sailing to and from Trinidad at night. Another reason to keep your running lights at deck level, limiting your position to a small boat to 2 miles or less, while a watchstander on a ship's bridge 50 or more feet up would not be so restricted. Also, once a "pirate" has taken an AIS unit from a vessel, they become more of a liability to a yacht than a nav aid IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
SeanM26 We know of a man who was recently sailing north, well off the coast of Somalia. He was alone and down below when two fishermen, armed with machetes came on board. The short story is, the man grabbed his cricket bat, he is Australian, and beat the **** out of both of the intruders. It was all the 2 fishermen could do to work their way to the back of the boat and jump into the ocean. A nearby fishing boat, with two men on board, came around to pluck the two guys out of the water. They then disappeared over the horizon. The owner of the sail boat is certain he gave a couple broken bones and bad bruises to the fishermen's necks, arms and ribs. There was a lot of luck involved in this situation.
You should see the damage a 24mm box end wrench can inflict with a minimal swing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

Less-than-lethal or not, a paintball gun is still a firearm...
Also, you do need to be aware of laws regarding any weapon.
From my experience in the West Indies, I seriously doubt any island would allow you to carry a paintball gun, as most don't allow any sort of non-lethal defense items...
All of the above comments are worth repeating, and thinking about. Just because something is non-lethal, that does NOT mean that it will be legal. In a whole lot of places things like paint-ball guns and pepper spay are just as illegal as firearms!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
525 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

Consider a Wrist Rocket (for birds, of course). At 20 feet a 3/8"SS nut packs a decent punch.

And a Machette (for coconuts and firewood, of course) for psycological deterrent and close business.

But to @capta 's point "intelligent sailing plans." The best way to avoid a hostile boarding is to not be seen, or not be seen as a "soft" target (or at least be a harder target than your neighbors).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,633 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

I'm afraid I could not disagree more, with the fella in the store. Cocking a gun is not a deterrent, it's a threat. That cocking sound is just movie BS. Do it in real life and whoever just heard it is now in life preservation mode, which would include killing you if they had to and could. I'm a competitive shooter and very handy with all types of firearms and find most people's assumptions are far off base. Fake guns get people shot, by other trying to defend themselves. That's why they're illegal here, without that orange give away.

I like some of the ideas, such as the pepper balls. However, I doubt the guns, let alone the pepper, are legal in 90% of the world, so I don't see it as a practical suggestion at all. I momentarily considered the pepper balls and a sling shot. I quickly realized sling shots aren't even legal in Rhode Island. Let alone, if you fire a pepper ball into another boat, you've escalated too. Sailboats can't outrun a powerboat, even if it takes the crew 30 mins to recover.

I too would like to hear more self defense ideas, but one's that are mostly legal would be more practical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
525 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

...sling shots aren't even legal in Rhode Island.
Well, I just learned a whole bunch about slingshot restrictions. Most restructions pertain to wrist-braced or 'tactical' slingshots, but some places, like New Jersey, are much more restrictive. (but then anything more lethal than a sharp glance is illegal in NJ)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,060 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

When in my first home while I and my wife were in bed heard two malfeasants break through the downstairs sliders to the basement. Got my wingmaster 12g and loaded it.
While walking downstairs ran the action to bring a slug into the chamber. Heard “Oh sh-t he’s got a gun” and then the two ran out the broken sliders.
The sound of a 12g pump action is quite distinctive. It’s quite a deterrent in certain situations. However one of them is not a sailboat. Leave the guns at home. Carry cheap polypropylene rope to throw over the stern. A loud horn. And the double edged tool on a expandable pole for cutting line off your prop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

Does anyone know if there is a resource that tracks the number and location of attacks/boardings/etc...on sailboats? It would be interesting to know just how serious the threat is and the probability of being a target, before thinking about all the ways one would defend oneself. I understand that any database may have a bias in it, but hopefully it would be better than simply anecdotes.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
7,167 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

Does anyone know if there is a resource that tracks the number and location of attacks/boardings/etc...on sailboats? It would be interesting to know just how serious the threat is and the probability of being a target, before thinking about all the ways one would defend oneself. I understand that any database may have a bias in it, but hopefully it would be better than simply anecdotes.
Bias!!!!!!?????????????

Jeez... if you look at this website you will never leave home again.

https://safetyandsecuritynet.org/


But most are similar to this
Stolen Items: dinghy and 5HP outboard
SECURED: Not Locked
DETAILS: Ten (10) boats were in the anchorage overnight. Three (3) left dinghies in the water, 2 of which were locked, but a charter boat left theirs unlocked. It was stolen overnight, the line cut. A police report was made.
Note: unlocked
unlocked
unlocked
unlocked
unlocked
unlocked
unlocked


Really!? If your cockpit door is unlocked at night.
If your cockpit isnt flood lighted
If your dinghy is unlocked

Then
its
your
fault.



Mark :)
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,225 Posts
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

Does anyone know if there is a resource that tracks the number and location of attacks/boardings/etc...on sailboats? It would be interesting to know just how serious the threat is and the probability of being a target, before thinking about all the ways one would defend oneself. I understand that any database may have a bias in it, but hopefully it would be better than simply anecdotes.
We get our "info" from CSSN, Caribbean Safety & Security Net.
A lot of the info is not reliable, IMO, but it is a source to look through. I believe we went from 5 "reported" "pirate" attacks to one credible attack over the last 3 years when we responded above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarkofSeaLife

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Re: INTRUDERS, PIRATES & THIEVES vs Paintballs, Spray, & other Non-lethal ideas!

Here is a report that just came up a few minutes ago. When speaking of "this group", that means a Face Book, YouTube group. We know a cruiser who was overwhelmed by 6 men, all armed....there is nothing you can do to rescue the situation on your own.

Mayday Mayday Mayday: SAILING SEATRAMP was attacked a couple of days ago in Panama by 6 armed robbers who took everything. The damage is huge, and the continuation of their journey is at stake.
Nina Schev is an active member in this Group, and she is one of the first members of the Creators Only Group.
Link to support on GoFundMe. [email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Surely there's a way you could wire your toe rail and lifelines to turn them into a supercharged electric fence. Crank that sucker on with a switch when they get close enough. Power shouldn't be an issue as you'll surely be motoring when being pursued.

Hide below and listen to the excitement and confusion as they try to board...

In all seriousness, I would advocate along with others that travel planning and research to just avoid these situations to begin with is probably the best route. Guns can escalate.

In the areas I plan to sail, the limited number of pirates/thieves are after material items and cash, not ransom or your head. If I were in Somalia, I might endorse a different approach. (Like, don't sail in Somalia)
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top