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The word sexist has become as meaningless as the word racist...

Fodder for easily offended people. Who needs them?
I probably did deal with it- the OP question;sexism in sailing, about 30 pages before you posted this new statement above.


For those around the world that have suffered-and continue to suffer today(many with their lives) -from racism and sexism, denial is a slap in their face.
 

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S/V Calypso
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Wow this thread went down the tubes!
 

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I suppose it's inevitable that this thread gets off the beaten track but please, maintain some level of civility. Nothing says we have to think alike, but we can discuss opposing ideas without beating each other up and engaging in personal attacks (however cleverly cloaked).

I was never into the hardcore feminist movement like some wrote about here. I'm not against it but extremism isn't my thing. But I do believe that I (and all women) have been a beneficiary as I feel free to choose my path as a female. Some days are Little Black Dress days and some days are rebuild the head days. Some days I feel like standing up for an ideology, some days I don't. To me the main benefit of that movement was the (perhaps perceived) notion of being able to choose.

Every woman, just like every man, approaches sailing differently. Some women lack the self-confidence to try docking on their own, some women don't give it another thought and just do it. I learned to sail because I wanted to learn to sail. Just like I did with kayaking, scuba, and whatever other activity I wanted to try. The fact that I would have a problem doing any of it because I'm a woman never crossed my mind. What other people thought of me doing it never crossed my mind. I really don't think of it much at all until I read this thread.

There have been some harsh words thrown out in this thread. Again, I get that it's inevitable. I get the attitude that feels "life is harsh, deal with it" but I will try to stand for those women who have told me those attitudes are the main reason they don't participate more in forums and tend to just read and for those women who prefer that this forum follow the original intent. So, one reason why there are fewer women responding in HerSailnet let alone across the entire site.

One thing that crosses my mind when I read a comment, usually from a male but not always, saying that he or she is against having a forum like this, is what happens to the women who are feeling their way? The ones who have been continually put down and are trying to break out of that pattern in baby steps? The ones who *thought* HerSailNet was a safe place to ask a question without being belittled? Do we simply let Darwinism kick in? It's really not about a segregated forum because those people who are going to attack them will do it *out there*, too. Those people who will be blunt to the point of being hurtful will be no matter where. But, the people who started herSailNet way back when thought it was worth a shot if it helped the less self-confident get into sailing and get enough of a foundation to sail into the big, "bad" outside world. At least they were trying to reach out. They tried to help. Whether it worked, I don't know. Probably not. Comments about how they shouldn't have tried serve no useful purpose, I don't think.

It really isn't segregated because, unlike the women-only forum on CF or the couple of women in sailing Facebook groups I belong to, men are allowed to post here.

In my mind, the women and men who can stand up to sarcasm and snarky remarks, the women and men who can but choose their battles and this is not one of them, the women and men who feel too intimidated but want to learn, they all deserve respect no matter how they choose to approach life (unless, of course, they are total flat out jerks or serial killers).
 

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:confused: I'm very much of two minds about this - I appreciate the spirit in which it was meant, and at the same time hope I'm strong enough to take care of myself out there in the big world...

Other opinions?

I have the same ambivalence about "women-only" sailing instruction, but perhaps that's fodder for a separate thread.
I liked Eryka's post. Was she really banned? Why?
 

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I liked Eryka's post. Was she really banned? Why?
She was not. She had an unfortunate incident with identity theft. I think at the time that was the best way the moderators felt to close that user name without losing her posts. She is still here but under a different name.
 

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Quirky
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Sexism is prevalent for both genders.
Men and women gravitating to one sport/chore/event is more complicated than genes. Men and women are encouraged by parents, friends, society, etc to behave a certain way. And it starts the moment they leave the womb.

A pink hat goes on the newborn girl. A blue hat goes on the newborn boy. Little boys have their rooms decorated in blue with super heroes, cars and planes. Girls get pink rooms with dolls and stuffed animals.
Boys are dressed in pants and shirts and when they dirty their pants, adults roll their eyes saying "boys will be boys". Girls get dresses and are scolded for getting dirty.
Boys get footballs, boats and toy trucks to play with. Girls get dolls which they dress. Sometimes they are baby dolls that they feed, practice changing diapers, etc. They get pretty hair ties and toy makeup.

Eventually they align with the roles given to them via positive and negative reinforcement from society, parents, friends, etc as well as them observing those of the same gender. It continues throughout life where both genders are encouraged to act one way, discouraged to act another. It comes from parents, TV shows, friends, movies, commercials.
You end up with men who "aren't sensitive" (which I think men in general are more sensitive than women are-breakups are incredibly rough on them) and women who "are afraid to get dirty". Or men who "can't cook" and women who "can't do math". All ridiculous assertions. Men are perfectly able to cook. Women are perfectly able to do math. It's been proven over and over again that men and women are equally good cooking and at math. Men are sensitive otherwise they'd be robots. Women are perfectly capable of getting dirty.
You know, in a study, math and science scores went down for girls when it was suggested before a test that girls weren't as good in math and science as boys were. Nothing had changed except for someone planting a seed of doubt. Yet girls are constantly bombarded with things like that.

This shirt says it all.

^And some girls/women would be proud to wear that.

Think about your child. How upset would you be knowing someone was causing your child to doubt themselves, cause their scores to lower, cause them to neglect skills they have by whispering such ugly things to them? Well, it happens everywhere, every day, all of the time and not many are aware of it.

Occasionally you find someone who shrugs all of the outside influences, tomboys and such. By the way, what is the equivalent term for men? What do you call a man who wants to sew or cook dinner? Doesn't it say a lot that most terms you'd call a man with interests familiar to women are derogatory? So lets not forget what men go through.

Men are subject to such ridicule if they show anything other than what society deems men should and unfortunately are not offered the same protection women available to women for it.
A man who honestly considers his wife or girlfriend's thoughts is "whipped" or she's "got his balls in her purse". If they cry then they're a pansy. If they want to bake a cake, then people call him a homo in a derogatory way. It's gotten even worse for them because TV shows and commercials are picturing them as complete idiots who are barely able to tie their own shoes without the instruction of a woman. And I can't tell you how many conversations strange women start with me to break the ice about "their stupid husband". I always think "Well, you married him so I guess that makes two idiots." :rolleyes:
So you see, both sides are subject. These days, I think men might have it worse.

If you really study society, you'll get disgusted by all of the outside influences stripping people of both genders of their individuality because these influences are so incredibly powerful.

Until society, family, friends, stop putting pressure on both sexes to act a certain way, we'll never be rid of it. That won't happen until people decide they've had enough with being put into a box.


Is sailing sexist? No.
 

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I do not favor segregation in any form.
right; because when you exclude someone based on their gender you are being sexist regardless of whether that exclusion is men excluding women or women excluding men ( which, in our moderrn word is thought of as not only ok but as excelent. everyone is al for an all woman group or event but dead set against anything all male).

the same can be said of any form of descrimination. however, so-called "reverse" descrimination is usualy justified, if not outright applauded, in modern society. descrimination is descrimination.
 

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Sexism is prevalent for both genders.
Men and women gravitating to one sport/chore/event is more complicated than genes. Men and women are encouraged by parents, friends, society, etc to behave a certain way. And it starts the moment they leave the womb.

A pink hat goes on the newborn girl. A blue hat goes on the newborn boy. Little boys have their rooms decorated in blue with super heroes, cars and planes. Girls get pink rooms with dolls and stuffed animals.
Boys are dressed in pants and shirts and when they dirty their pants, adults roll their eyes saying "boys will be boys". Girls get dresses and are scolded for getting dirty.
Boys get footballs, boats and toy trucks to play with. Girls get dolls which they dress. Sometimes they are baby dolls that they feed, practice changing diapers, etc. They get pretty hair ties and toy makeup.

Eventually they align with the roles given to them via positive and negative reinforcement from society, parents, friends, etc as well as them observing those of the same gender. It continues throughout life where both genders are encouraged to act one way, discouraged to act another. It comes from parents, TV shows, friends, movies, commercials.
You end up with men who "aren't sensitive" (which I think men in general are more sensitive than women are-breakups are incredibly rough on them) and women who "are afraid to get dirty". Or men who "can't cook" and women who "can't do math". All ridiculous assertions. Men are perfectly able to cook. Women are perfectly able to do math. It's been proven over and over again that men and women are equally good cooking and at math. Men are sensitive otherwise they'd be robots. Women are perfectly capable of getting dirty.
You know, in a study, math and science scores went down for girls when it was suggested before a test that girls weren't as good in math and science as boys were. Nothing had changed except for someone planting a seed of doubt. Yet girls are constantly bombarded with things like that.

This shirt says it all.

^And some girls/women would be proud to wear that.

Think about your child. How upset would you be knowing someone was causing your child to doubt themselves, cause their scores to lower, cause them to neglect skills they have by whispering such ugly things to them? Well, it happens everywhere, every day, all of the time and not many are aware of it.

Occasionally you find someone who shrugs all of the outside influences, tomboys and such. By the way, what is the equivalent term for men? What do you call a man who wants to sew or cook dinner? Doesn't it say a lot that most terms you'd call a man with interests familiar to women are derogatory? So lets not forget what men go through.

Men are subject to such ridicule if they show anything other than what society deems men should and unfortunately are not offered the same protection women available to women for it.
A man who honestly considers his wife or girlfriend's thoughts is "whipped" or she's "got his balls in her purse". If they cry then they're a pansy. If they want to bake a cake, then people call him a homo in a derogatory way. It's gotten even worse for them because TV shows and commercials are picturing them as complete idiots who are barely able to tie their own shoes without the instruction of a woman. And I can't tell you how many conversations strange women start with me to break the ice about "their stupid husband". I always think "Well, you married him so I guess that makes two idiots." :rolleyes:
So you see, both sides are subject. These days, I think men might have it worse.

If you really study society, you'll get disgusted by all of the outside influences stripping people of both genders of their individuality because these influences are so incredibly powerful.

Until society, family, friends, stop putting pressure on both sexes to act a certain way, we'll never be rid of it. That won't happen until people decide they've had enough with being put into a box.


Is sailing sexist? No.
a great and fair minded post! kudos to you!

the nurture/nature argument. there is a ot of nurture involved however, especialy with today's entertainment industry having so many movies with beautiful yet deadly, tough, heroic women that save the day, i'd say it's not as much as it used to be. there is an increasing amount of scientific evidence that suggests a ot more of our personaities is genetic than we formerly thought.

by the way, a guy that crys a lot is a pansy and i don't think anyone ever calls a dude homo in a good way. :D

as far as society encouraging certain roles and behaviors based on gender, those aren't the evil that a ot of people seem to think. it is a matter of survival of the species. when your family group is faced with death by an attacking beast, tribe, or space alien do you realy want the males, those designed by nature to be physically better at fighting and killing, to be sitting around crying in fear whie the only ones that nature saw fit to give the ability to bear and nurse young wade in to their possible deaths?

and kids playing with socialy approved gender role toys is simply a reflection of the play of all species. young lions play at stalking and hunting and killing....because that's what they will have to do as adults and it's good preliminary training.

boys have aways played with war toys or construction toys or other such things because that would be the tasks expected of them as adults. the same goes with girls playing with dolls, especially ones that are like babies. play is prepation for life.

certain gender roles don't really mean anything in modern society. the man is no longer necessarily going to be the bread winner. some gender roes will never be meaningless. i don't think you will ever see guys giving birth.

not sexist just reality.

anyhow... again, awesome post.
 

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You're spending a good bit of time in herSailNet. You don't have to.
You can be as snippy as you want, but tell me how really valuable it's content has been. And you people who have been throwing around the word "gal" ought to know that a true feminist sees that word as offensive as the word "n****r."
 
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