SailNet Community banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My roller furler is old and crappy and I'm thinking of removing it and converting my jib and genoa to hank-on.

Are they going to be a less-than-ideal shape? Perhaps I'm better off selling them as used sails and then getting actual hank-on sails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,764 Posts
In theory, a foresail could be the same shape, but have no idea what you have. Furling mainsails typically lack a roach and horizontal battens, unless boom furled.

Personally, I would spend the money tuning up the furling system. Your boat will retain more value that way as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/50348-convert-furling-sails-hank.html

I would def have a sailmaker take a look at your sail...

I much prefer hank on except for one HUGE difference: when the wind pipes up, it's awfully nice not to have to go forward to deal with a big sail. We found that sail changes - by definition - ALWAYS occurred when you least wanted to be struggling to work on foredeck. And tho true that a bigger boat is more forgiving (pitching and hobby-horsing less), the sails also go up in size making them an even bigger handful.

So... I don't like how a roller reefed sail 'sets' (in comparison to a dedicated hank-on 70% or even storm), the convenience of getting it done quickly and safely from the cockpit has won out for us.
 

·
Barquito
Joined
·
3,499 Posts
I would imagine if you paid someone to sew hanks on your genoa, that you would be better off selling the furling sail, and buying a hanked sail. There is a good supply of hanked sails available used because most people are going in the other direction (selling hanked to get furled).

The furling sail may be cut to a different shape. The luff is almost certainly shorter than you could have with hanked, in order to fit the furling gear under the tack.
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,369 Posts
You don't mention how big your boat is or what sort of sailing you do.
This would make a big difference in whether I chose hanked on sails or RF.
Basically, if you sail in sheltered waters a couple of times a month, I'd think hank on headsails would be fine, but if you were into extended cruises, especially short-handed, where you might get into some heavy weather and seas above 2', then I'd stick with the RF, at any cost.
If you'd ever had to wrestle down a big headsail and change it out for a smaller one, in winds over 20 knots and with the bow pitching heavily, I doubt you'd be considering going back to hank on sails. Not only is it not a whole lot of fun to be on the foredeck in those conditions, it is downright dangerous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sal Paradise

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
You don't mention how big your boat is or what sort of sailing you do.
This would make a big difference in whether I chose hanked on sails or RF.
Basically, if you sail in sheltered waters a couple of times a month, I'd think hank on headsails would be fine, but if you were into extended cruises, especially short-handed, where you might get into some heavy weather and seas above 2', then I'd stick with the RF, at any cost.
If you'd ever had to wrestle down a big headsail and change it out for a smaller one, in winds over 20 knots and with the bow pitching heavily, I doubt you'd be considering going back to hank on sails. Not only is it not a whole lot of fun to be on the foredeck in those conditions, it is downright dangerous.
I forgot to mention it's a Newport 30 Mkii, and I sail with my wife and small children in/near the Georgia Strait (Vancouver - Gulf Islands, etc).
 

·
Freedom isn't free
Joined
·
2,949 Posts
I'm going to be the generally dissenting opinion. Yes generally hank on sails will have way better shape. Mostly due to the fact that they can now be shaped for ideal efficiency, and not shaped to furl better.

Yep, furling is easier when the winds pipe up. But then you are supposed to reef early and before you know you have to (remember?)... so you already switched down to a smaller headsail too right?

But in more seriousness, hank on will generally be more efficient in a given range. Furling sure can shorten sail, but of course will also ruin shape... but hey you didn't have to go forward!

Which is it? Efficiency and speed, or easy and slow?

But but but, race boats have furlers too!!! yes they do, but if you look most only have 1 sized headsail, and its usually only 100%. Also they have compromised their headsails to make flying an asymmetrical easier (usually on a prodder).

So is there REALLY a compromise? yes, a Mark IV furler, that takes tuff luff and allows for headsail changes for racing... if you get in a pinch you can still furl and shorten sail.
 

·
Registered
S2 7.9 Bear Lake, UT
Joined
·
2,474 Posts
I forgot to mention it's a Newport 30 Mkii, and I sail with my wife and small children in/near the Georgia Strait (Vancouver - Gulf Islands, etc).
Depending on your wife's sailing experience you are more or less single handing. Even if you wife is a skilled sailor someone has to watch the kids, you are single handling, with extra burdens. Get your furler and a furling headsail working for you.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,049 Posts
I'm going to be the generally dissenting opinion. Yes generally hank on sails will have way better shape. Mostly due to the fact that they can now be shaped for ideal efficiency, and not shaped to furl better.

Yep, furling is easier when the winds pipe up. But then you are supposed to reef early and before you know you have to (remember?)... so you already switched down to a smaller headsail too right?

But in more seriousness, hank on will generally be more efficient in a given range. Furling sure can shorten sail, but of course will also ruin shape... but hey you didn't have to go forward!

Which is it? Efficiency and speed, or easy and slow?

But but but, race boats have furlers too!!! yes they do, but if you look most only have 1 sized headsail, and its usually only 100%. Also they have compromised their headsails to make flying an asymmetrical easier (usually on a prodder).

So is there REALLY a compromise? yes, a Mark IV furler, that takes tuff luff and allows for headsail changes for racing... if you get in a pinch you can still furl and shorten sail.
Sort of! The most efficient shaped sails are sails designed for an optimum flying shape when supported on a headfoil whether on a furler. Of course in order to have a optimum flying shape they are not designed to be flown partially furled.

Hank on sails have their own design problems because the luff needs to be sufficiently stretchy to allow cloth at the luff the sail to be tensioned enough to flatten the luff of the sail and to avoid big scallops between the hanks in a strong breeze, and yet stiff enough to avoid stretching and causing scallops. Because of that, hank on jibs are often made with slightly greater luff curve to allow it to be straightened and flattened in a breeze.

The problem with the original poster's idea is that his jib was probably cut flat to use partially furled and so converting to hanks won't produce an ideal sail shape either. Some of the answer lies with the condition of the original sail. If its old and tired, there is no point modifying it. But if its in good shape, then adding hanks may be viable. I would certainly request that the hanks be closely spaced so that the sail doesn't require too much halyard tension in a breeze. And frankly, if all that the Original Poster is doing is messing about on an older boat, he might get away with adding hanks to his old sail.

If The OP wants to get fancy he can add a downhaul that will allow him to douse the Jib from the cockpit, and maybe even add a reef point so he can simply partially lower the jib and reef it which is way easier and almost as effective than doing a sail change, and way better than sailing with a partially furled jib.

Jeff
 

·
Freedom isn't free
Joined
·
2,949 Posts
Jeff, as always you have way more experience, and knowledge in these things.

and yes a foil is better than hanks... but a roller furler designed sail will generally be cut high enough with an open enough foot, that it'll furl correctly... this is a requirement for furling, so you loose the deck-sweeper end plate effect. Only a real issue when you are on the lower end of wind speeds for sure. As winds pipe up the open foot will actually help balance the load and make it easier to twist things off as the cars come back.

I still think a roller furler that allows a foil, with a removable drum gives you best of both worlds. Foil for racing sails, that you can put properly cut deck sweepers for the lower end of the range, and add a drum and put a sail cut for furling on it for the 99% of the rest of the time you sail. I'm debating doing this myself. Sadly most of my sails are hank on, so they'll all need converted to tuff luff.

I will make one exception for roller furlers that the drum resides below deck is probably the best of all with very little compromise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
If The OP wants to get fancy he can add a downhaul that will allow him to douse the Jib from the cockpit, and maybe even add a reef point so he can simply partially lower the jib and reef it which is way easier and almost as effective than doing a sail change, and way better than sailing with a partially furled jib.

Jeff
Very cool idea, is there a trick to transferring the sheets to the upper clew cringle when you reef? Do you just lower the sail all the way to make the switch and then hoist it back up? I have visions of getting smacked in the head by a flogging cringle while trying to swap the sheets and gather the foot of the sail.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,049 Posts
The deal on rigging the sheets is that you run a separate set of sheets through the correct sheet lead block and tie those sheets to the reef clue cringle before you reef and while the sail is still full so its not flapping about. That cringle will typically only be at eye level even on a pretty big boat. Then when you have reefed and the new sheets are trimmed, you remove the old sheets and brail the bottom of the sail to keep it from catching waves. Plan 'B' is to move the lazy sheet up to the reef clew grommet, reef then tack, and then tie on the new lazy sheet.

This is very old school stuff that was pretty much the norm in the days before modern furlers and hardware.

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
The deal on rigging the sheets is that you run a separate set of sheets through the correct sheet lead block and tie those sheets to the reef clue cringle before you reef and while the sail is still full so its not flapping about. That cringle will typically only be at eye level even on a pretty big boat. Then when you have reefed and the new sheets are trimmed, you remove the old sheets and brail the bottom of the sail to keep it from catching waves. Plan 'B' is to move the lazy sheet up to the reef clew grommet, reef then tack, and then tie on the new lazy sheet.

This is very old school stuff that was pretty much the norm in the days before modern furlers and hardware.

Jeff
I like this idea so much I'm almost ready to get rid of the furler :D. Worth mentioning that I have an old hood seafurl (810?) with an infinite furling line. It is rather difficult to furl even in benign conditions, and I feel it is both an inconvenience and a danger. I'm in the process of making my Newport 30 Mkii a bit more seaworthy, so that I won't have an emergency at the first breeze, and doing something with the furler is part of that.

I either have to replace the furler, or move to hanks, as a result.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,764 Posts
Not totally following the logic. Being able to quickly get the foresail furled, without needing to go to the foredeck, is it's primary advantage.
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,369 Posts
Unless things have changed radically since last I used hank on sails, all the hank on sails I've owned had wire luffs, not rope. That can't be cheap to have a sailmaker put in.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,049 Posts
Unless things have changed radically since last I used hank on sails, all the hank on sails I've owned had wire luffs, not rope. That can't be cheap to have a sailmaker put in.
I don't think that wire luffs are used anymore. In my most recent experience, depending on the size of the sail, small hank on jibs no longer have any luff reinforcing other than the luff tabling, and bigger jibs seem to use modern high modulus line. The cost of either seems to be pretty similar to installing a foil boltrope,

Regarding the original poster, on a 30 foot boat, it may be possible to simply install cringles for the hanks and actually remove the foil boltrope from the sail or having to add a new luff rope. That could be pretty inexpensive to do. If the OP was pretty handy, and does not mind a stitched in webbing connection, it would be pretty easy to add the hanks as a DYI project.

Jeff
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top