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I surf these pages fairly regularly, the forums have such a mixture of things going on that they sometimes require indepth reading and thought. The moderators seem to do a resonable job of being neutral and let the sailing community say what ever is on their mind.

I was reading the thread on the BN sailmaster thing, it was heated and interesting. A little more provocative than, where I was in the Keys stories, or how to peel 15 layers of antifouling off your bottom... Actually I raced back in those days, on a few well know yachts but I was fortunate in that I knew the owners and was invited. The 'boat hand' was some one I came to admire, he knew the yacht up side and down side. Not only did he know the yacht but there was not a manouevr he could not organise or train the newbies how to perform with out mistake... he was the ultimate professional.
I guess had I been younger I would have liked to been in his shoes... Alas I am confined to Yacht charters and sailing my little boat on the Solent.

So the thread with Mr Sailmaster was an interesting discussion.. some how it seemed to get bogged down in that all time problem, what people call people..Never understood that... my parents taught me sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you.... so weather its ****, wog,******,***,kite,muslim,*******.... name one every one knows them...
what the heck...unless you want to hurt some one and say it to there face they are only words.... no value

Now this is the internet, freedom of speech and all that good stuff... sorry as a brit we can say what we want and to whom....i believe it is the same over there ... unless you are still running under dicator bush... we have Herr Blair.. same thing differnt disgusie.....bottom line is that Mr.camardarie was way out of line...
1. he expressed his personnel interest in the thread and his opinion, what ever happened to being neutral ???
2. he issued threats to mr sailmaster... banning for his response to another reply....what ever happened to just letting things just go and die a natural death ???
3. and after visiting his web page, it became apparent why....sorry any one who dresses in those yachtie clothes is just not taken seriously around here.. for goodness sakes,,, and after surfing his page discover he is an expert on the the 'ditch' and the east coast run ... come on do some real sailing... trans atlantic ? europe ? OHHH Great Britain ?? ( tides will confuse him)..and he runs this forum... experince and dress says heaps...

So the question is this....:)
Who's opinion matters ?
the one of a moderator who wants all things nice and comfortable... or the one of the clients who log on here and voice there opinions and questions about life, sailing and the state of the oceans...

Me I'm just a britsailor with no money and a little boat, ,,, no 60 ft ketch with all the works and the nice old money that comes from being born in the right place... what is it that americans call it... WASP.....over here its called LORD... but then they dont seem to have all that attitude and EGO!!


SO AM I BANNED ??:rolleyes:
 

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Freedom of speech? Yes.
But a little common sence and sensitivity to others will go a long way.

Britsailor said:
SO AM I BANNED ??:rolleyes:
I hope so, but probably not.
 

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free speech and all that, eh? matey?

well for the same reason you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater and then whine about free speech, is the same reason I agree with Cam... That thread needed to be closed.
 

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perhpas y'all need to do a little reading on the SCOTUS decision about hollerin "fire" in a theater. it has nothing to do with the words...it has to do with whether the speech has the force of action. by raising the fire alarm you compel another to evacuate the theater. your speech has force of action. a threat of violence is the same case. this is not the case with namecalling or racial epitaphs. it may lack in sensitivity but should not be censored under the guise of unprotected speech. the point is moot as obviously, this forum is not public and is privately operated therefore no one has a constitutional right to air their opinions here. but dont repeatedly misinterpret first amendment restrictions to justify silencing someone you disagree with. just admit you dont like what they have to say and wish they would shut up.

mike
 

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Free Speech?? I think it is more about showing consideration of others. You can have your opinion, and have a right to voice it, but doing so at the expense of others just makes you an ASS.

I agree with tjk- and paul- in backing Cams decisions and taste.
 

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Having not followed that thread after the first couple of posts, I went back and read what was there. While I'm all for free speech, and abhor political correctness, that doesn't mean I'm not mindful of the use of words and how they can be seen by others. Self-cenorship, if you will. It's also called consideration and respect.

While the basic topic was of interest, the use of what many feel is a pejorative term wasn't necessary for the discussion. It merely made the outcome invetiable. That the moderator had to intercede was to be expected.

Your response to the action taken, which to me, falls under forum guidelines, shows the same sense of bigotry, that you impune to the moderator. (And FYI, a WASP is not a class designation, it simply means white, anglo-saxon, protestant)

A lot has been said recently in these forums, that really have nothing to do with sailing. Probably too much, though I'm guilty of being a part of it. And though the subjects were heated, no warnings were found necessary, because they by and large, were done with some sense of decorum. Tact, decorum, civility, what ever you want to call it, should be a part of any discussion, and I for one, have no problem with the moderators action in ending a thread that had none.
 

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Britsailor,

Unlike some groups of people in Europe, America has little tolerance for people who make derogatory slurs toward other people who may differ in their religeous beliefs, nationality, skin color and in some cases, even social class. In our country, this is called bigotry and racism . . . actually one of the reasons our country's founding fathers escaped England's shores centuries ago.

They may be only words to you, but since most British people I know share our sensitivity, I would assume you are one of the uncultured breed of blokes. Perhaps you even belong to an Aryan white supremist group. If so, please refrain from preaching your Nazi rubbish in these forums.
 

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Cam went overboard based on personal opinion. In my opinion.

To pretend that things weren't what they were in the past is ingnorant, to bury your head in the sand and make the claim that it cannot be talked about is just guilt.

Things were different, times change and if we can't talk about it where does it leave us? If we're too afraid or guilty to talk about our past - yes even that which is truly an embarassment - where does that leave our future?

Bottom line though, this is a private forum owned by a person or company which we do not pay to utilize so if the owning party says no to this then no it is. I do not believe that it is Cam's decision to make even though he obviously has the power to lock a thread. I may be wrong though as I do not truly know how it works behind the curtain.
 

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This forum is about sailing, boats, and to help people like myself enjoy our wonderful sport to the fullest. Hopefully in doing so it creates an atmosphere in which people from all different countries, race, background, etc can come together and learn from each other. That thread was going to do the complete opposite, so in my opinion, Cam was 100% correct to end it before it got completely out of control!
 

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doctom...

ever been to the third or fifth ward?
I'll wager your argument about "force of action" there wouldn't hold a lot of water.
 

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Always follow the money. If no money is involved then ask what the agenda was. I believe the agenda of the original post was to hide behind free speach to stir up and incite, not to add to this SAILING FORUM. The forum moderator has a duty to and right to moderate this sailing forum for it's intended purpose. No one is squashing anyones freedom of speech, if you have a burning desire to discuss such things then start a board of your own or find one whose agenda matches your own.
pigslo
 

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Britsailor said:
Now this is the internet, freedom of speech and all that good stuff... sorry as a brit we can say what we want and to whom....i believe it is the same over there ... unless you are still running under dicator bush... we have Herr Blair.. same thing differnt disgusie.....bottom line is that Mr.camardarie was way out of line...
1. he expressed his personnel interest in the thread and his opinion, what ever happened to being neutral ???
2. he issued threats to mr sailmaster... banning for his response to another reply....what ever happened to just letting things just go and die a natural death ???
3. and after visiting his web page, it became apparent why....sorry any one who dresses in those yachtie clothes is just not taken seriously around here.. for goodness sakes,,, and after surfing his page discover he is an expert on the the 'ditch' and the east coast run ... come on do some real sailing... trans atlantic ? europe ? OHHH Great Britain ?? ( tides will confuse him)..and he runs this forum... experince and dress says heaps...

So the question is this....:)
Who's opinion matters ?
the one of a moderator who wants all things nice and comfortable... or the one of the clients who log on here and voice there opinions and questions about life, sailing and the state of the oceans...

SO AM I BANNED ??:rolleyes:
Since I seem to be the primary subject of the post above I will respond.
First...I will say that the referenced thread was closed due to the tenor of the conversation not the content. I stated my own opinion on the subject but the subjuct was NOT why the conversation was closed. Had I wished to simply enforce my own opinion, I could simply have deleted the thread. I left it in place so others of diverse opinions could read it and make up their own minds AND so that people with the SAME mindset as me would not have a WIN over those with different opinions simply by becoming un-civil.

Second...A few months ago I was just one of the gang here and was invited to be the moderator as it was the sense of the administrator of the site that SPAM needed more frequent tending and conversations were getting out of hand and were not in keeping with the purpose of the site and needed occasional intervention. They felt that my judgement was decent for the purpose and I made it clear they could overide any decision I took without offence. So far...I've made a couple of warnings...banned ONE person and stopped ONE thread. Not bad for 6 months or so I think...and a large measure of that is due to the quality of people we have on board here that value the civility even in raging arguments.

Third...I receive NO compensation for my role and am not an employee of SailNet. I have NO obligation to be neutral on any topic. This is a private, commercial site and there is NO RIGHT to free speech for anyone. There is a PRIVILEGE to enjoy the site and post here and learn as well. Of course if the conversation is stifled due to the "rules" then people will go elsewhere and the enterprise will suffer. It it my role to help keep a happy balance which of course means some will be un-happy.

Fourth...as to the personal attacks on my dress, lifestyle and sailing experience. I don't know what picture on my website "Brit" found...but I do admit to presently owning one sport jacket, one tie (black), one pair of dress shoes and one pair of dress socks. All of the above were purchased beore the year 2000. I guess that makes me a "yachtie". My experience is quite limited as I've only done bay and sound sailing for about 30 years and then for the last 6 put on about 20,000 miles in the ICW, offshore along the East Coast of the US, through the Bahamas chain and down through the Carribbean to Grenada while outfitting 2 boats for long term cruising while living board full time with no land based home having sold my house to by my boat. I was able to do this after 30 years of working over 60 hours a week and putting 3 kids through college and retiring at age 52. It is true I have never crossed an ocean and there ARE others here with vastly more experience in that regard. I also have never raced and know little about that subject. Nevertheless I do think my experience is more than 95% of other sailors will have and I take my hat off the the other 5% for their accomplishments.

I appreciate the personal support on this thread and via PM's that others have made regarding my decision to halt the BN thread. My suspicion is that "Brit" is a troll looking to stir the pot up but since this is the first thread I've stopped, I thought it would be helpful to respond so everyone understands my reasons (even if you don't agree with them<g>) and the nature of my role here. Thanks.
 

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cardiacpaul...your statement is racist. you assume my race and you insinuate that a certain class of people are unlawful.

sorry that i wasted both of our time trying to help you from misunderstanding the protections gauranteed b our bill of rights.

mike
 

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One thing I have found about forums like this is that (as frustrating as it may be, sometimes) you have to play by the forum owner's rules. Look at it as if you were a guest at someone else's home. If what you were discussing got too racy or heated for the homeowner's taste, he could ask you to change the subject or even leave his house. Same deal here. Of course we're all for free speech, but this isn't a street corner where you can shout whatever you like, as loud as you like.
 

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Have I mentioned what a nice day it was Sunday... Beautiful yesterday too... Catalina makes a better yacht than Hylas... I am uncertain which anchor to choose, can someone help? SHould I crimp or solder??

Thank you everyone in advance for all of your help as I know nothing about sailing or cruising...

- CD
 
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