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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My mast is down I'm looking over my swaged fittings. They all look good, except for this one in the image below, it looks off to me:



The wire seems to have lost its twist right where it enters the fitting. It seems to have straightened some.

Do you think this is something that happened when the fitting was compressed on - or did this happen over time?

Is this serious, maybe it's in the process of failing?

As always your thoughts are appreciated!
 

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Jnoiur Mebemr
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Its hard to tell what would have caused that especially without seeing it in person, but you are correct that its not right. If I found that during a rigging inspection I would defiantly recommend replacing it. Just out of curiosity, how old is your rigging?
 

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My mast is down I'm looking over my swaged fittings. They all look good, except for this one in the image below, it looks off to me:



The wire seems to have lost its twist right where it enters the fitting. It seems to have straightened some.

Do you think this is something that happened when the fitting was compressed on - or did this happen over time?

Is this serious, maybe it's in the process of failing?

As always your thoughts are appreciated!
Is this the top end of a head stay with rollerfurling?
If so it can look like the result of a halyard wrap.

It looks as if the fitting has been rotated against the lay of the wire.
 

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islander bahama 24
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Did it look that way last year looks like it was twisted when tightening the turnbuckles have a rigger look at it. But off in doubt change it out. Cheaper than a dismasting
 

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Is this the top end of a head stay with rollerfurling?
If so it can look like the result of a halyard wrap.

It looks as if the fitting has been rotated against the lay of the wire.
That is what I was thinking, or perhaps it got bound up in a turn buckle and got twisted when adjusting? I think I would replace it, unless it is almost new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is at the upper (masthead) end. I did go up my mast a year ago, but I don't think I would've noticed this if it had been there. So maybe it's new, maybe not..

I wasn't sure if anyone had seen something like this before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Is this the top end of a head stay with rollerfurling?
If so it can look like the result of a halyard wrap.

It looks as if the fitting has been rotated against the lay of the wire.
Yes, this is my head stay w/ furling gear! A halyard wrap would make sense. I was 90% planning on replacing it, now I'm 100% definitely going to replace it.
 

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Yes, this is my head stay w/ furling gear! A halyard wrap would make sense. I was 90% planning on replacing it, now I'm 100% definitely going to replace it.
Replace the stay.

It's important that you find out why you got this halyard wrap.
There are two common reasons for a halyard wrap
  1. The angle between the stay and halyard is not correct
    • On some boats this can be fixed with a strop (dyneema/wire) between the head of the sail and the swivel.
    • On other boats you need a halyard deflector
  2. User error, if the halyard is too slack while furling/unfurling the halyard can also wrap around the stay/foil.
 

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Knut has it right, I just wanted to jump in and reiterate, as soon as the wire starts to inlay like this it must be replaced. By itself that little twist is a massive decrease in strength, I haven't seen any testing done but somewhere in the 50% loss would be my guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Replace the stay.

It's important that you find out why you got this halyard wrap.
There are two common reasons for a halyard wrap
  1. The angle between the stay and halyard is not correct
    • On some boats this can be fixed with a strop (dyneema/wire) between the head of the sail and the swivel.
    • On other boats you need a halyard deflector
  2. User error, if the halyard is too slack while furling/unfurling the halyard can also wrap around the stay/foil.
Knuterikt,

I do have a halyard deflector near the top of the mast to keep the halyard pull-direction aft of the forestay.

Is it possible the halyard wrap occured because the forestay was too loose?

My forestay had too much sag (when observed close-hauled). While the mast was still up I had tried to tension it via the furling drum as the Harken Mk 1 instructions stated - but it didn't work. When I took the drum assembly home recently I discovered the turnbuckle mechanism on the drum was completely locked with RED loctite. Now that I've freed it I will be able to tension the forestay properly.
 

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Knuterikt,

I do have a halyard deflector near the top of the mast to keep the halyard pull-direction aft of the forestay.
For the halyard deflector to help the top swivel must be at the correct height to create the correct angle between the stay and halyard.

If the luff length of the sail is to short you must get the top swivel higher up by a strop between the tack and the tack attachment or between the head and the top swivel.

Is it possible the halyard wrap occured because the forestay was too loose?
Don't think so..
You should be able to get the correct halyard tension with a slack stay, since the sail/swivel runs on a rigid profile.

My forestay had too much sag (when observed close-hauled). While the mast was still up I had tried to tension it via the furling drum as the Harken Mk 1 instructions stated - but it didn't work. When I took the drum assembly home recently I discovered the turnbuckle mechanism on the drum was completely locked with RED loctite. Now that I've freed it I will be able to tension the forestay properly.
Strange to secure the turnbuckle mechanism with loctite.
Any pictures of the turnbuckle mechanism?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·


Once you loosen the nut and star-shaped locking washer, turning the drum allows the the assembly to ride up and down on the lower threaded stud. This tightens / loosens the stay tension.

Now that I think about it, I was caught in a strong squall this past summer that ripped holes in my genoa. I had been trying to furl it when, unbeknownst to me my sheets knotted themselves around my lifelines (due to the crazy wind). I didn't realize the sheets were locked so I thought I was fighting the wind pressure on the sail. I really hauled hard on the furling line (until I noticed the sheets weren't gonna give).

Could that have done it?
 

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ok ive read this thread now

you have one of the most common symtpoms badly installed or even normally installed furler do to forestays

its a common nowadays to replace your forestay twice as fast on a furling stay system then you would on an open stay not just because of thise but because most systems have hidden turnbuckles that make visual inspection much harder.

what happened either by failure or bad installation is that the furler simply exerts to much axial pressure on the connecting parts...basically even when hard in the wind and you dont have correct straps to by pass the tunrbuckle or whatnot your sail is pulling on the stay axially

if you are on stb tack and your stay is right hand laid guess what?

you are "unwrapping" the lay of the wires...

there are many fixes for this easy and hard...

my fix for now is no furler...

ps. and yes pulling on a furler and confusing that for wind resistance is one of the many mistakes people do on furling systems

you must always always stop if you feel resistance...and easy trick is to head into the wind a bit ease foresail and then only then furl in...a bit at a time

to many times(on the boats I have been on with furlers) have I seen people yank on the furling line so hard that even the pulleys leading aft get sprung off

be nice to your furler and sails! jajaja
 

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Once you loosen the nut and star-shaped locking washer, turning the drum allows the the assembly to ride up and down on the lower threaded stud. This tightens / loosens the stay tension.
Don't know the Harken furlers, sounds a bit strange to use red loctite to lock an adjustable turnbuckle..

Now that I think about it, I was caught in a strong squall this past summer that ripped holes in my genoa. I had been trying to furl it when, unbeknownst to me my sheets knotted themselves around my lifelines (due to the crazy wind). I didn't realize the sheets were locked so I thought I was fighting the wind pressure on the sail. I really hauled hard on the furling line (until I noticed the sheets weren't gonna give).

Could that have done it?
Likely..

The rule is never use excessive force to furl the headsail, it should not be necessary to use a winch to furl the headsail (the furler must be properly installed and maintained)

When I furl the head sail I ease the sheet a little bit to let the wind spill but not so much at it starts flogging. Often a couple of turns on the sheet winch give enough friction to stop the sheet from running out to fast.

I don't think that heading up to furl is a good idea.

Here is what Selden write in the instructions for the Furlex 200 S / 300 S systems
The whole doc is here http://www.seldenmast.com/files/595-104-E.pdf

11.3 Furling the sail
  1. Release the windward sheet and ensure that it can run freely.
  2. Furl the sail by pulling the furling line. Release the leeward sheet but keep a little tension on it, for example by placing a turn around a winch. It is important to furl the sail tightly and evenly, as a sail which is furled too loosely can blow out a little in strong winds. If the boat is left unattended, the
  3. sail may flap until it tears. A very loosely furled sail may also cause unnecessary wear, as the sail roll will swing back and forth in the wind.
  4. Belay the furling line carefully. If the boat is left unattended, the furling line should be belayed on a cleat for safety
12.2 Reefing under sail
  • In strong winds it may be necessary to reef the sail. It is important then to furl the sail tightly, as this both preserves the sail and gives it a better shape.
  • The best point of sail for reefing is on a close reach to beam reach. The wind will then partly fill the sail and help to improve its shape when reefed.
  • If using a winch for the furling line, first check that there is no obstruction which may interrupt the furling operation and possibly cause damage.
  1. Slacken off the leeward sheet until the sail just begins to flap along the luff.
  2. Pull in the furling line so that the sail is furled and flattened out. Belay the furling line.
  3. Repeat the procedure as required to obtain the desired sail area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Don't know the Harken furlers, sounds a bit strange to use red loctite to lock an adjustable turnbuckle..
The loctite was definitely a mistake by the previous owner. Harken's special lockwasher removes any need for loctite. All it did was make me think my furler was broken until I discovered otherwise.
 

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al brazzi
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Older thread I know, but does anyone know how much adjustment is in the length of the drum up and down. I haven't see my unit disassembled and I need to slack the furler to rake the Mast. This looks like the one I have. A drawing of the furler would be good. I've GOOGLED and searched this forum and can find adjusting instructions but not a full breakdown. Will it hit a stop before coming apart, don't want to damage the rig trying to make a simple adjustment.
 

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The problem with swages is you really can't tell without destructive testing and then you'd have to replace it in any case. Would replace the wire myself using mechanical terminals, Norseman, StaLok, Hayn. Easy to do and you won't have the swage worries anymore, at least on that one wire.
 
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