SailNet Community banner

21 - 40 of 58 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
7,167 Posts
Re-ran a bit of wire yesterday. Had the choice in my cupboard of tinned or untinned.

The run was from the bow nav lights through the anchor locker and into the forrard head connecting under the sink.

I went tinned :grin :grin :grin
 

·
bell ringer
Joined
·
4,804 Posts
And there there's the cruisers. When you need to replace a wire you have to use what is available. But I've personally never had to replace a wire, just a fitting on it. Unfortunately replacing a terminal lots of times becomes splicing in a new section of wire. I bet the cost of all the spare wire on the boat in my electrical bag is like $50. But the cost of the wire terminals etc. in the bag is at least $300.

Now I do run wires for new equipment on the boat. I think I tend to get that wire from a marine store just because there's one near me when I decide to do it. I also tend to oversize the wire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,059 Posts
My OEM wiring is not tinned as the boat was made in Holland. Some of the smaller gauges show corrosion... I discover this when I might want to replace a pump for example. So I simply change the wire to tinned... especially since there is not enough length to cut back to the shiny non corroded wire. I maintain several spools in different gauges and colors for this purpose. The entire main 12v wiring from the batts to the busses was all changed to tinned wiring when I upgraded the batteries.

I assume that corroded wire connections offer more resistance/less current or lower voltage will pass. Most of the loads are low enough that there is no danger of fire from heat. But 110v is another story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,868 Posts
My 2006 Yanmar wiring harness has untinned wire.

What about the engine in your boat?
As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of things on boats with untinned wire. I just replaced a brand-name bilge pump, a brand-name switch, and installed an expensive brand-name shower sump pump, and a waste pump. All of these are in wet places, and none of them came with tinned wire. In these cases, using tinned wire runs to them doesn't help much. Put the money into quality connectors and adhesive heat shrink instead.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
I've recently ripped out a significant percentage of the wiring in my boat for the electric motor conversion. Not a bit of it was tinned. However, some of it was so well wrapped that even at 25 years of age in a marine environment it still was free of damage, and my multimeter showed it was still well within spec.

The worst cables were corroded, but not so badly that they failed to work. I didn't find a single cable that wasn't well crimped. Whoever was in charge of wiring my Hunter originally definitely had an eye for detail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
My boat is only 22’ and doesn’t have a lot of systems, so there ins’t much wiring and the runs are short. The cost of the wire is negligible compared to the cost of fittings and the time consumed, so I’ve been using oversized tinned wire for everything I’ve replaced. I’m sure the wiring will outlive the boat, but that’s the case with most of the repairs I’ve done (like a bronze seacock on a 22’ boat that will never see saltwater).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
ABYC standards cover much more than what has been discussed here, wire type, strand size, oil resistance of the insulation, temperature rating and voltage loss among others. I don't know if Home Depot conductors would meet those requirements.

Of course many have no use for ABYC Standards. To each his own.
Home Depot standards? Oh, for heavens sake. I'm guessing you ave no use for UL or ISO.

This is industrial wire from Southwire, which meets UL and ISO standards. It carries a second jacket to protect it from damage during pulling, is extremely oil resistant and heat resistant, and is used in refinery and steel mill applications you can't imagine.

This is apparently outside of your experience. It is common on ships.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
... I suspect anyone using untinned wire in the US, and having problems with it, is using cheaper stuff than THHN.

Mark
That's the thing. The article ONLY referenced THHN, and the title was misleading. I've seen lamp cord and finely stranded non-tinned wire that was chewed up.

By the way, tinned is not perfect. I should have taken pictures. I was working in a refinery a few weeks ago, opened and old instrument (mercury switch) and found the tinned (marine) wire leads had been eaten back 2 inches by fumes that had leaked past a failed seal. The wire and the insulation were not damamged, they were gone. The THHN wire they were attached to with a wire nuts was still fine and I attached new instruments. It seems the fine strands have a lot more surface area and couldn't take it. I have never seen THHN wire fail in that way. And this is why the USCG approves it. But not just any wire.

And as you pointed out, it's not cheaper. You pay for quality.

Just sayin'.
 

·
Catalina 400 MKII
Joined
·
818 Posts
I recently did a lot of work in my son's bilge. He has a Mako 22' sport boat. I rewired the bilge pump and the aerator pumps (for the bait wells). The untinned wire showed a lot of discoloration. I did the re-wiring with tinned wire. I better get a lot of fresh fish!! (Yes, my son is very generous!!)
 

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Home Depot standards? Oh, for heavens sake. I'm guessing you ave no use for UL or ISO.

This is industrial wire from Southwire, which meets UL and ISO standards. It carries a second jacket to protect it from damage during pulling, is extremely oil resistant and heat resistant, and is used in refinery and steel mill applications you can't imagine.

This is apparently outside of your experience. It is common on ships.
Actually ABYC Standards are based on NEMA, ANS, NFPA, SAE and UL. These are mentioned right in their standard.
The difference is that ABYC uses the marine version of those Standards. Now if you can convince me that Home Depot also uses the marine versions I'll happily buy my conductors there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
How are you checking that with a multi-meter ?

If you are checking resistance by ohms, one intact strand can show 0.0ohms.
My Multi has a clamp. I ran power through the 00 cable to see if it was still good after the continuity test. The input amperage matched what the multi was telling me right up to the cut-off of 180A, so I assume the cable is still good.

Now that I think about it, I should have done a temperature test at the same time to make sure the cable wasn't heating up under load. I'll check that when I finish wiring the batteries into the boat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,765 Posts
Home Depot standards? Oh, for heavens sake. I'm guessing you ave no use for UL or ISO.....
Having a bad day? BoatPoker said "I don't know if Home Depot conductors would meet those requirements." He did not say they didn't.
 

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
I have never seen THHN wire fail in that way. And this is why the USCG approves it. But not just any wire.

And as you pointed out, it's not cheaper. You pay for quality.

Just sayin'.
Ok, Your post #3 proves you have never read the ABYC Standards .... You stated they required tinned wire..... they don't

This post proves you have not read the US Regulations as they are laid out in Code of Federal Regulations Title 33 and 46 not in any USCG regulations. Neither these regulations nor USCG "approves" any wire.

If you have a citation that states otherwise please show it.
 

·
bell ringer
Joined
·
4,804 Posts
It's 1 leg ass kicking contest time. Got get them fellas.
 

·
bell ringer
Joined
·
4,804 Posts
This is the City.....................


even for me this is a old one

and before the mods get into it (you hear me Mark) it's about being stiff, like a wire, and that's on topic

:captain::pirateraft::spam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Ok, Your post #3 proves you have never read the ABYC Standards .... You stated they required tinned wire..... they don't

This post proves you have not read the US Regulations as they are laid out in Code of Federal Regulations Title 33 and 46 not in any USCG regulations. Neither these regulations nor USCG "approves" any wire.

If you have a citation that states otherwise please show it.
The wire I posted is dual rated as THHN/THWN and is listed as an acceptable classification in 183.430.

I simply responded to the OP's question and am not interesting in a pissing contest.
 
21 - 40 of 58 Posts
Top