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Tundra Down
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Discussion Starter #1
We have been enjoying our I-28 with the suit of sails it came with. A 135 and a 150 and the main with a "shelf". No tears or major flaws but I am guessing they are at least 20 years old. Thinking about new sails I asked Hood to spec out a new head sail and got back a "boilerplate" quote for a roller #3 head sail. I inquired a second time on their web site and got the same result. I want hank on head sails. Not impressed with that response. I did call Hood and got an apology for their lack of attention to my inquiry. Technology??? I thought I would ask the "Crew" about new sails.

Biggest question is about changing the main. What to buy. We cruise the NE coast. An occasional race for fun. How high tech should we consider? Things have changed since the "original" main was specked. We want to keep a new sail for 10 years. Would like a couple of reef points.

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I would go with a loose foot, two full/oartial battens, at least 2 reefs depending upon the winds you sail in. I like laminate sails over dacron personally. But boats like yours and mine where the main is 1/3 of the total sailarea, a GOOD dacron will work, or for about the same money, one can get an Ullman tri-axil panel sewn laminate that is better for lighter/stronger winds, etc. I went with a string main, should have done this option for about half the price.

Jib wise. depends upon again, the winds you sail in. Puget sound where I am is a bit light. so laminates usually do a better job. I have a 3ox nylon drifter for the really light days, a 155 for crew racing up to 15=18 knots of wind. a 140 for the next 5 knots and 2 of us, cruising daysailing etc. the all around sail. along with a 110 for higher winds to 30-35 knots, and a storm jib that is original.

I also got rid of the hank ons, and went with a harken carbo foil. Personally, I fell this is a better way to raise and lower sails than hank on. I am also not furled either.

Marty
 

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Tundra Down
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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Marty and thanks. Your sail selection for wind speed is a bit more aggressive than mine. We enjoy 5 - 8- 15 k winds most of the summer. I am making hull speed with a 135 in these winds and find a single reef down to a 100 / 110 more comfortable at the high end. Still making good speed. We don't use the 155 and rarely have it aboard.

A loose footed main might be the way to go. Haven't ever had one. Why is it your druthers? Ease of handling and lazy jack management are starting to be important criteria.

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Spent many hours on an I28 & thoroughly enjoyed it. Don't remember where the main came from, except that the battens liked to work their way out, so pay attention to how they are secured and have the pockets over-reinforced because they become wear points.

I don't think I have the VPPs any more but we were surprised to see how early the boat should be reefed, and once we started doing that, found it was faster and flatter as well. Double-reefed, it was surprising what the boat would take and still behave.

With what an I28 weighs, I don't think high-tech has to be on your mind. Conventional sailcloth, well made and detailed, works very nicely on the I28. There's just no way she'll be a light air boat, although you probably can target the 150 for lighter airs.

A nice low genny does help the boat, although that's going to be the usual tradeoff of forward vision unless you add a window, and then someone needs to pay attention because you don't want to FOLD the hank-on jib in the window.

I think you're right to have some concerns about a loft that doesn't read the quotes. Little things like "Oh, did you want a window in the genny?" "Oh, was that cringle supposed to be reinforced?" can be a RFPITA when the sail has to go back and forth to get the omissions fixed up.

If I can find those VPP's I'll let you know.
 

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Down,

Some of what HS said is true. Your I28 and my Jeanneau Arcadia are probably real similar in specs. 30' LOA, 28 LOD, 24-25' WL, 5.5' draft for me, 2400 lbs of iron, 6500 lbs of disp. So to a degree, high tech sails help, but probably do not. The jib, more than the main. Altho if you can do as I can, my 195' main, 10' foot 32' luff, the tri- axil main is about the same cost as Ullmans dacron equal speced reefs etc.

i do find when it is wife and I, at 15-20 knots depending upon temps etc, a single reef and 110 is fine, good speed, level'ish boat etc. With a crew of 5-6 racing, I can get upwards of low 30's with a double and a 110 up. Altho a 70-80% luff and an LP around 100% would be a better sail IMHO for winds over 30 knots. Or the ability to reef the jib.

I feel the loose foot is easier to get the correct shape vs the non loose footed main. I can also get IMHO a better shaped main with 2 full vs all partial. I have not had a 4 full batten setup. The partials down below do make reefing pretty easy IMHO.

I would get a 155'ish sail with light cloth for those 0-10 knot days, Then over 10 or so knots, the 130-140 sail works fine. I came with a 135, had a 140 made for the lighter days.....should have actually gone with a 130, as I have a mini forestay to get the genoa around. A 130 would be easier from this standpoint. BUT, I like the performance of my 140 better all around frankly! That is a triaxle from Ullman. THe 155 is a string style. But that is used racing only. The others get used as needed.

Winter with colder temps, reefing, smaller head sails etc come upwards of 5 knots earlier than summer temps of say 60F and above. The colder air is denser, with more moisture, so one needs to reef/reduce SA sooner! Also depending upon how many people racing vs spouse and I will vary the reduce needs also. My main, I would probably do another 25-50% reduction when I get a new one on the first reef, and make the 2nd reef on par with a triple! This will not reduce my SA enough even racing to worry me, and give me a few more upper wind speed knots before having issues on those days. WInds above 20 or so are only sailed when racing generally speaking too! I have another 3-5 folks on board to help in these conditions. with spouse, we are motoring or down to a 110. Motoring is more the norm.

Hope some of this is helping, and the why I have the sails I do. Racing is a bit more use of my boat vs cruising. But I try to keep both uses, how many people on board, in given wind strengths as to how I will sail the boat etc.

Here is a pic doing around 8 knots with a 90% asym I have, at times I wish I had the full rated spin.....some day. I have a wider post fastnet half ton rear end, vs your rear that is narrower pre fastnet rule changes. If BP gets into this, well, it is what it is! You still have a nice boat for what it is etc.......



Marty
 

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Tundra Down
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Discussion Starter #6
Very helpful information Marty. Thanks again. Ha! I am partial to double enders! BP's I-28 qualifies. Nice pics. We do have a full spin.

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Marty-
I28:
LOA 27.92 ?
LOD?
Displacement 7000 lbs
Ballast 3000 lbs
Ballast/D 43
D/L 255

Jeanneau Arcadia:
LOA 29.5
LOD 28.1
Displaces 6,171 lbs.
Ballast 2,358 lbs
B/D 38 %
D/L 190

The D/L ratios are very different. Similar, maybe, but I suspect in a T-bone he'd go right through you without slowing down, because once you get an I28 moving...I wouldn't say it is built like a fireplug but it is a very heavy, solid boat. And exceptionally well-balanced one, although if the wind goes up and you forget to reef, yes, you can lose the helm as it rounds up into the wind and patiently waits for you to fix that. (G)
 

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HS,

Those comparisons do not surprise me. I figured both were with in 1-1.5' at most all around. Again, with out looking up the actual specs.....it does appear a bit shorter, heavier hence for the D/L being larger. Then again, that does make up for the pre vs post fastnet design figures too.

Other than that, I would suspect that where I reef, reduce sail area, will be with in a knot or two of an I28 in equal conditions.

Generally speaking, my boat is also well balanced, EXCEPTING when over powered. Him having another 1000 lbs of total wt, will allow some conditions for his boat to be better than mine, others mine........I still feel both will be overall similar. Mine probably does fewer round ups in some conditions, more due to the actual hull design etc.

Both are good boats, both probably have a similar design spec, both were designed to a given how things were designed about 5-7 yrs apart.

Marty
 

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I have a Pearson 28-2, which is sort of right in between the two in D/L. A big difference between my boat and the Islander 28 is that my boat has a bigger main at 172sqft, where the Islander 28 is about 143sqft (my boat has more E and a hair less J than an Islander 28). Smaller differences are that my boat is about 10" longer, has less ballast (2550 vs 3000lbs), same displacement, and the D/L is 214 vs 254.

Anyway, I bought a new dacron genoa (135%, 310sqft) last year and it's been great so far. However when I buy a new main (probably next year) I plan on going with a cruising laminate. They aren't that much more money and I want a sail that will hold it's shape for a long time to come. The main is up all of the time, where my genoa shares headsail responsibilities with a working jib (100%, 200sqft) and a couple of spinnakers, so it's only flying about half of the time. Dacron sails last a long time, but they don't hold their shape for a long time. Right now I'm flying a main that I can't get as flat as I'd like in higher winds, but which has a lot of life left in the cloth and stitching. I'm hoping that a cruising laminate will fix that.
 

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Tundra Down
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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks to everyone here. This has been a very helpful post. I sail "alone" Downeast. Not much opportunity for these kinds of comparisons. You have to love Sailnet. I truly appreciate the insightful analysis of the I-28 and it's "brothers". It is a little heavy but it helps it feel "solid". It is "easy" to sail in all conditions and was the perfect boat to teach my wife (and me) how to sail. I did have a bit of prior experience but not with a boat this "comfy" under sail. Starting to wish it was just a bit bigger but that is another issue.

Any and all other remarks about sails and which ones to select for "Tundra Down" will be most welcome.

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7000lbs for a 28' cruising boat isn't all that far into the heavy side. There are a lot of full keel cruising boats that are a lot heavier (and a lot slower) in this size range, like my friend's Pacific Seacraft Orion at 10,000lbs. The main thing that gives your boat a higher D/L ratio than my boat or blt2ski's boat is that the waterline length is a couple of feet shorter, not that it is heavier (it is the same weight as my boat and about 800lbs more than blt2ski's).

I'd be happy to own an Islander 28, they look like good boats. I really like boats in this size range and have little desire to own something larger (especially since my moorage would go up by $1000/year).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Alex,

It isn't a "heavy" boat. You are right. The fin is heavy enough to give the boat a very comfortable motion without the sacrifice of performance of a full keel. It is a very responsive boat. The size is just fine for the short cruises we enjoy here along the Maine coast.

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I've noticed some of the more recent 28' boats are in the 8-9K range, altho they are really fat in the ass, full pressure water, showers etc......all add wt!

These three boats are a bit closer in size than it shows actually. PHRF the ratings are me at the fastest with a local NW base of 189, the i28 at 204, Alex will be in the middle. He appears to not be a member of PHRF-NW, so did not find his actual boat to see how it rates. I race at a 195 with a code 6 Jib and code 2 really small spin. So I get a 9 sec credit for the spin, and a 3 sec penalty for the too large of a genoa.

If you want to race, and get a main, try to get as full a roach as phrf will allow with out getting penalized, that would a max code 5, or about 120% of the 100% triangle. My main is 162 1`00%, 194, 195 is max per local code. 340 would be the total for a genoa, I am at 345.

The other to do, is look in the fall, Ullman gives 30% discount many years during sept, you order by oct 1, sail comes in march......if you want it sooner, you pay a bit more. Pay full price when done during the spring and summer months. Just a way to save a couple of bucks on all this!

marty
 

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I had a provisional rating of around 201 last year, but that was due to cruising credits for a 120% jib, older sails, big dodger, and fixed 3-blade prop. If I race my boat this year I need to get it updated since I now have a feathering prop and a new 135% genoa. PHRF-NW gives us the same base rating of 189.

I expect to do more racing on the 5O5 in 2014 than my big boat, but that can always change.

For the record my boat came from the Pearson factory with full pressure water, a hot water tank, shower, Webasto hot air heater, etc. I removed the hot water tank and shower head. I'm keeping the cabin heat They don't change the dry weight much (maybe 50lbs for the hot water tank?), but realistically it is hard to empty the tank and the 6 gallons of water adds another 50lbs of dead weight.
 

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Alex,
I swag'd the middle as looking at USSAILiNGs high/low/ave had me faster OA, you in the middle, and the I28 on the slower side of things. it all works out.

Looking at the I28 on the hard at my marina getting some bottom work, the I28 appears to have about 2 of 5' of draft in the hull, the keel about 3'. My boat with a tape is 1.4' of hull, and 4.1' of keel. I measured the keel to see about getting some fairing templates.

I think OA, these three and others in the same relm would make as it does a lot of times at the BRBR or equal when one can get 8-10 boats in the 180-220 range, a fun race. THere are a bunch of boats in this range from a few years ago. They are not bad boats overall.

Marty
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I am not a sailboat racer. I do like racing and crew on a friends IOD from time to time. My responsibilities vary in that role but I do not worry about the boat. I enjoy the I-28 and will probably start racing a bit in some of the double hand races along the Maine coast after my wife retires. That will be very soon, hence the thoughts about new sails.

Following this discussion has been valuable to this I-28 racing novice. Thanks again for the insights. Any more thoughts on battens in the main? We might have to buy two new, but different, main sails?

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I would buy one main. Choose your flavor for the battens. I like my 2 full top, 2 partial bottom ones. I also have a light and heavy batten for the top. Sometimes do not use a batten at all, when in winds under 5-7 knots.

Your boat like ours is head sail driven. So get the biggest one you can, then adjust the SA you need with the jib. Your boat in reality, was probably designed to use upwards of 160-180% jibs. A 180 jib and your slightly smaller main than mine, would put you probably about 550sqft as I am with a 195 and 345 jib. For me, around 24.x-1 sa/disp, vs my 18-1 in 100% mode or you in the 15.x range.

What you should look at even from a cruising mode, is will the improvement net me more than the credit or penalty. Example, Alx's BIG 3 blade fixed prop. He gets IIRC a 12 sec credit on his rating for this extra drag. But I would swag he would net .5 knots of boat speed going to a feathering/folding prop. A gain of .5 knots afrom 5 to 5.5 knots, is in reality a total of 1 minute a mile. so a literal gain of about 48 secs vs the credit. FREE speed if you will on the handicap. Choosing sails for the boat should be the same method per say.

Anyway, off to work with me.

Marty
 

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On our old Islander 28 we had full battened Quantum sails for the main, loose footed.

I loved that boat. Not as much performance as opur C&C 35 MKIII but was quite a comfortable boat for its size range.

I28 hold a special place in my sailing heart.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I also have a "small" 3 blade prop. An Indigo for my A-4. Perhaps one main and a second prop! That would be serious time! I wonder what a folding prop would do for me? Ha! Thanks again.

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