SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
bell ringer
Joined
·
4,815 Posts
Now if only someone would order and pay for one they could built it. Then they could have pictures of a real boat :grin
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,054 Posts
And if that doesn't show that the end is near, Farr Yacht Design is designing a line of performance cruising cats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
64'
Tide tables are your friend
64' is a very short mast for a 51' catamaran. For example, the Balance 52 is 78', and the Catana 47 is 71'. My guess is that they don't need the extra sail area because the boat is so light (20,000lbs full load) and the hulls so fine (13.7:1 B/L).

I do wonder why so much fuel capacity, and how they will get 861sf of mainsail on such a short stick. We also have 64' mast clearance with a similar length boom and only have 600sf of mainsail. Hard to believe a square top will provide 200 more sf of area. And a furling boom plus square top leads me to believe the owners are going to have a lot of jamming issues in their future - particularly since there doesn't appear to be a rigid vang, or any room for installing one.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,075 Posts
I don't know that the end of the mono hull is the future of sailing. I do see increased acceptance of cats as an alternative. But the infrastructure needs to adapt a fair bit... boat yards, marinas in particular. These are real barriers for someone in Southern NE or LIS to moving to a cat. Do you see the infrastructure changing to more cat friendly in the near term?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
And if that doesn't show that the end is near, Farr Yacht Design is designing a line of performance cruising cats.
It isn't such a stretch for Farr to go in that direction as it is Pacific Seacraft. Next, we will see Formosa come back to life with a catamaran design. Hans Christian actually started producing a catamaran, but seem to have gone out of business before completing it.

Bob Perry led these guys back in the late 90's. I wonder if he is itching to do another?

Didn't Smackdaddy predict this trend here? I bet he's giggling in his cyber grave.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I don't know that the end of the mono hull is the future of sailing. I do see increased acceptance of cats as an alternative. But the infrastructure needs to adapt a fair bit... boat yards, marinas in particular. These are real barriers for someone in Southern NE or LIS to moving to a cat. Do you see the infrastructure changing to more cat friendly in the near term?
The examples given here have been performance cruising cats, so not likely to be spending their lives in NE or LIS. My experience is that once outside those places that freeze half the year, facilities are much better for catamarans, and have increasingly gotten better since we started cruising 10yrs ago. We are in a marina in Georgia now that is chock full of catamarans, and Florida has many catamaran-friendly slips. New marinas are being built everywhere, and they all design for catamarans.

The perspective here is the future of cruising, not sailing in general. Pacific Seacraft has not been selling boats for a while now. I suspect Island Packet also, and they may be the next to jump.

The future of recreational sailing and weekend/short cruising will probably remain with Beneatau, J-boat etc. Beer can racer/cruiser and cruiser/racer types. As for New England, that die has already been set - there are no more Hood, Hinckly, Bristol, Morris, etc to be had (outside of a couple of expensive daysailors). NE will either remain restoring old boats, or start to look like everywhere else.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,075 Posts
Why do you think the seasonal aspect of the more north latitudes is less friendly to the acceptance of cats? or behind in their acceptance? If I would guess it would be the sheer number of mono-hulls and marinas geared toward them that would have to physically re build. Perhaps hearing cats makes use in shoulder season less appealing... more suited for warn weather???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Catamarans are definitely more suited to warmer weather. They are difficult to heat and keep heated due to the large expanse of surface area and the design of two hulls and a large windowed bridgedeck saloon.

But mostly, people don't generally buy $1million+ performance cruising catamarans just to sail them on a weekend for a couple of months. They don't even buy $300k ones for this.

We were one of the first catamarans we ever saw in New England when we brought ours home to CT in 2003. However, before we left in 2008, it had become common to see catamarans up there. I imagine that trend has continued. However, it likely is not like South Florida in this manner, and doubt it ever will be.

Catamarans seem to be more of a cruising decision for most people, rather than a general recreational sailboat one.

Mark
 

·
bell ringer
Joined
·
4,815 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Those are drawings, not photos. I guess you missed my point that they hadn't built any or they would photos.

BTW - I went all the way to Maine last year. Saw only a couple of cats once out of the south.
I was making the point that their newest monohull model is also just drawings at this stage. And it has been at this stage for the past 4 years because they haven't built any.

Mark
 

·
bell ringer
Joined
·
4,815 Posts
Who wants to be first? Come now people put up your $1m so they can learn to build you boat. :laugh
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
7,167 Posts
I have sailed long passages on two Hull Number 1's and I would never buy a Hull #1 (or the first 10 in a mass production run like Bene).

In both boats there were tooooo many Quicky Fixes to get around design shortcomings that would be fixed in Hull #2 or #3.

Both boats were almost junkers.... One was a Swan... The other a highly respected, at the time, builder.


So as Don says, wait till the computer renderings are real photos.
 

·
Registered
S2 7.9 Bear Lake, UT
Joined
·
2,500 Posts
The perspective here is the future of cruising, not sailing in general. Pacific Seacraft has not been selling boats for a while now. I suspect Island Packet also, and they may be the next to jump.


Mark
I think the lack of sails in new monohulls can be attributed to the huge availability of used monohulls. Except for a few touches and that new boat smell, I don't think the new PS are vastly different than a 30 year old one. As an outsider to Catamaran sailing to me it looks like there is a huge amount of evolution to the boats designs and a new catamaran might be very different from a 20-30 year old design.

The signs of a true end of an era to me is that Pacific Seacraft is making a light displacement sailboat. I guess there is no market for a full keeled heavy displacement cat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,901 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
As an outsider to Catamaran sailing to me it looks like there is a huge amount of evolution to the boats designs and a new catamaran might be very different from a 20-30 year old design.
Yes, this is very true. Some good, some bad. The faster designs got faster, safer, and more load carrying capacity, while the charter designs just got bigger and slower. I think the catamaran industry is at a high point of design and material evolution right now.

The signs of a true end of an era to me is that Pacific Seacraft is making a light displacement sailboat. I guess there is no market for a full keeled heavy displacement cat.
I think that is a safe guess! Although some of the newer charter catamarans have eye-popping displacement numbers (some of the 45' displace 45,000lbs light ship :eek ).

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
I think the lack of sails in new monohulls can be attributed to the huge availability of used monohulls....
I think this at least hints at many of the changes we are seeing. The greatest competition ANY builder faces is the used market, so they want to build something that is not there. The tastes of "new boat" buyers are also changing (most of us are "used boat" buyers, so what we like does not matter, at all). Heck, the whole sailing demographic is changing, and the industry is shifting to follow it.

What I see are shifts towards:
* small and sporty (mono and multi)
* big and charter
* big and high-end
That's where the money seems to be. More "average" boat sales come from the used market.

Hopefully I live long enough to see the new end point.
 

·
bell ringer
Joined
·
4,815 Posts
I think cats are near their end and the dawn of tri’s are around the corner
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top