[smackdaddy]

You guys really should do a search on lost keels on j-boats over at sailinganarchy. There have been several incidents over the past few years. Here are a couple of the threads:

J80 Loses Keel - Sailing Anarchy Forums

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=73728&st=0

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=68245&st=0

And then here's one I started here a while back - it's got some great stuff:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/racing/52993-whats-up-j80-keels.html

 

[smackdaddy]

2 J80s out of a production run of over 1000

NO J24s that i have ever heard of

There have been issues with 105s and 109s BUT none fell off just repiars and are 1970 C&C 35 has required plenty of glass work to keep the keel ON

There are sure a heck far more Catalinas in many different sizes with rotten Plywood keel sumps amd keel issues

I'm not passing judgement - I'm just pointing out that there have been quite a few stories about J-Boats and keel issues over the past couple of years. This seems to be another one.

 

[smackdaddy]

SO whats the issue ? that a 1979 J24 hull needs a repiar kit it was suppose to have gotten 20 years ago and the keel is still THERE ?

I guess so.

 

[smackdaddy]

smackdaddy, J's are mainly racing boats and racing boats go rockhopping all the time. UNLESS a boat has only had one owner since it was splashed, you can't ever be sure that someone hasn't grounded it and damaged the keel attachment.

So losing a keel? When you don't know if it ever was abused? Come on now, that's like asking a six year old "Who punched you out?" when they lose a kiddie tooth. Simply uncalled-for.

I promise that I've never punched a six year old - at least not hard enough to knock out his tooth. I have no ****zu in the J-Boat hunt...I'm just posting the stories I've come across about keel problems with J-Boats.

Here's a post from Tom from that SN thread I linked to above - he says it better that I can:

J105

J120

A repiar job

In the past starting with the J24 they have sent out field repiar teams or made the kits nessary to beefup there many weak keel sumps

The first problem was the J24 with the Mushy Vermiculite Problem and i guess its allways been quite because they have taken care of the problems on the down low

From what i read from the first J80 owner to have lost the keel they are throwing him under the bus as well as his insurance company

He has had independent work done to prove the boat was sound before the keel was lost so it still not resolved 1 year later

"OK, here's the story on J80 #21, Skillagalee, since the crash. We had a policy for $25,000 (plus liablility) with International Marine Underwriters, NY, since 1994 when we purchased the boat. Many happy years sailing and racing, nothing more extreme than occasional downwind broaching. Then the keel sump was ripped out and the boat sank.

First survey done almost immediately, paid for by insurance company, which stated "delamination due to fatigue"; insurer got back to say, sorry, we will not pay any loss due to 1) wear and tear, delamination, 2) "your failure to maintain the yacht". We responded with maintenance/yard receipts totaling $28,168. over last five years, not including new sails or gear. They confirmed exclusion, and offered insight that 'sailing is an expensive sport'. I guess it is.

The hull was then transported to RI by J-Boats (at their cost) and another survey done (also at their cost). This resulted in bold statement quoted in prior SA post regarding "longitudinal crazing", supposedly present for substantial time (without my or my high priced yard guy noticing it, despite regular inspection), and keel floor tabbing delamination. In short: no ammunition with insurer.

Act Three: hired my own surveyor. Believe it or not, I just received his report on Monday. He performed core samples in area of keel, and found 1) "fiberglass and balsa core to be perfectly intact showing no sign of water intrusion and no delamination between inner and outer laminates", and 2) very low moisture detected by Tramix moisture meter anywhere in hull. Bottom line: "catastrophic fiberglass failure due to rapid athwart ship pressure from two high speed jibes that accidently occurred in heavy wind... THIS LOSS WAS NOT DUE TO NEGLECT OR LONG TERM DELAMINATION.

So, now another incident, more harrowing and thank god without loss of life or limb. Does this affect my understanding of failure and potentially my case? I think so, and my wife is on the war path. It does not sour me on J-Boats, with whom I've had a positive experience (other than that one time...) including a call yesterday to make sure we're still friends. But I hope it leads to a settlement in arbitration which would allow me to buy a boat and get back on the water."