SailNet Community banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any ideas why... Jib is rolled on a furler, it is hard to roll up and unroll. Tonight i could not get it to unroll completely. The drum at the bottom moved freely, i think there is a wrap or something up top but I do not know how to avoid it. Is it to much or not enough halyard tension? How do you ensure the roller furler works properly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,689 Posts
I experienced this with my old roller furling system. The swivel snap at the top seized when under pressure and it actually untwisted the wire halyard to the point where the sail would not furl out completely, and when there was no wind, the twisted wire actually tried to roll the sail back in. I replaced it with an Alado system, which is rated at the top and among the least expensive. Take a look at Alado Nautica USA Reefing and Roller Furling Systems Home Page

Gary :cool:
 

·
s/v Tiger Lily
Joined
·
624 Posts
Mine also did this a few seasons ago. Seized under load. I ended up having to replace mine (15-20 years old). I got a Harken Cruising II.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,072 Posts
<snip> Is it to much or not enough halyard tension? How do you ensure the roller furler works properly?
Usually has nothing to do with halyard tension.

The typical 'problem' is called halyard lead angle ... the angle that the halyard makes between the mast sheave and the furler's top swivel; the lesser the angle the more potential that the halyard will 'wrap' around the top swivel and cause the binding. Every furler manufacturer specifies a halyard to furler LEAD ANGLE and if this lead angle is not met, then you can experience 'binding' of the furler. One solution is to mount a secondary 'lead angle diverter block' to the front of the mast to attain the proper lead angle. Here's another way to do this:

1. Disconnect tack of the sail from the bottom furler swivel
2. Raise the sail all the way up the foil (without binding or jamming the halyard in the mast head sheave .... do this 'softly').
3. Measure the distance between the tack shackle on the furler drum and the tack of the sail (sail fully raised on the foil).
4. subtract 1-1/2" from the distance measured in #3
5. Make up a rope 'pendent' precisely to the dimension of #3 minus 1-1/2"
6. Place the rope pendent between either the tack of the sail and the furler drum or between the head of the sail and the top swivel.
7. With the pendent installed, the top swivel will now be within 1-1/2" of the TOP of the furler foil and the 'halyard lead angle' will now be at its 'maximum'.

If the top swivel is 'noticeably' lower than the VERY top of the furler foil, binding is always a possibility. The solution is to install a 'rope pendant' so that top swivel is at very near the VERY top of the furler foil.

hope this helps.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,357 Posts
Rich H is probably right on. Usually is cause by wrong angle at the top of the halyard, Mast sheeve and furker,
 

·
Over Hill Sailing Club
Joined
·
3,688 Posts
Angle of the halyard to the furler roller is a prime suspect as well as distance of the top roller/halyard eye to the sail attachment. There should be only a matter of a few (maybe 2-3) inches of halyard out beyond the halyard block to the roller eye. If a lot of halyard is extended down to the roller, it will inevitably wrap around the forestay/foil. If the head of the sail is far from the halyard block, a pennant needs to be put on the top of the sail (or sail itself raised higher) so that the top roller can get up closer to the halyard block. Also, a major cause of hard rolling is inadequate forestay tension. If there is a big sag in the headstay, it's obvious that it is harder to rotate that arc than if it is straight(er). Other things to check: binding furler line, lubrication, location and friction created by fairlead eyes.

I think many people wind up replacing perfectly good furling mechanisms not because there is anything broken but because over the years they have become out of adjustment. That critical distance at the top gets forgotten and new sails may result in too much halyard being extended at the top.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,357 Posts
What ever you do dont put the furling line on a winch and try and "force it".
 
  • Like
Reactions: smurphny

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
The above advice is good, using a binocular you may be able to see if there is a halyard wrap. If there is no wrap and the halyard length and angle look ok then another issue may be binding of the top swivel. This happened to me. Lower the sail and take a look. Some are meant to be lubricated, some not. Knowing the difference is important becuase if you lube one not meant for it you can ruin the bearings. If a you have a non-lubed swivel a good flush with water can help, although sometimes it meeds to be rebuilt.

In my case I could not lower the sail because like you it would not fully unfurl. I ended up having to untie the sheets and manually pull the sail around the furler, not a fun job if there is any wind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Several years back started to encounter an occasional hard to furl situation first season with a new boat - furling line seemed a little more difficult to haul but nothing that seemed extraordinary. Then during a good blow one day while attempting to furl in some sail the stay snapped and and all fell to deck. Luckily no one injured and the mast stayed up and we quickly rigged a spare halyard as a forestay.

I am guessing the furler had been experiencing some halyard wrap for some time. An examination of the broken stay revealed comprmised forestay wire no longer tightly wound. I installed a Halyard diverter and have never had another issue. I did first try to add a pendant extension but this solution did not resolve the halyard wrap on my boat. The diverter in my situation worked best.

...I would suggest given my experience taking a trip up the mast and examining your fore/furler stay to ensure the stay is in tact and to avoid future unnecessary excitement.

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,434 Posts
Installing a halyard retainer near the top of the mast will prevent a halyard wrap. Too much halyard tension will make it harder to furl and unfurl also. Google "halyard retainer" to see some varied approaches.
 

·
Mermaid Hunter
Joined
·
5,686 Posts
Any ideas why... Jib is rolled on a furler, it is hard to roll up and unroll. Tonight i could not get it to unroll completely. The drum at the bottom moved freely, i think there is a wrap or something up top but I do not know how to avoid it. Is it to much or not enough halyard tension? How do you ensure the roller furler works properly?
Did it ever work reasonably? In light air you should be able to furl the sail by hand without breaking a sweat.

Have you maintained the furler? Most require periodic cleaning and lubrication of the furler at the bottom and the swivel at the top.

If the furler ever worked right the halyard lead angle is probably okay. That becomes more sensitive if the upper swivel isn't clean and lubed.

Do the simple things first: ease halyard tension and see what happens. You should have easy operation with snug but not not tight (no wrinkles) halyard tension. Remember the impact of the backstay tensioner if there is one.

Since the sail is hard to unroll halyard wrap is unlikely to be a problem but a couple of minutes with binoculars will make that clear.

If those two things don't work get the sail down even if that means unwrapping it by hand, and do manufacturer's recommendations for maintenance. Clean (vinegar-water) and lube (SailKote) the foil track before hoisting the sail again and trying. Note that clean and lube may require two trips up the stick unless you are very coordinated and have lots of room for stuff in your bosun's chair. You'll want rags (I like the big bags of terry rags from a warehouse store), vinegar-water in a spray bottle, a putty knife for deposits that don't want to come off, and a big can of SailKote.

RTFM for your furler.
 

·
Over Hill Sailing Club
Joined
·
3,688 Posts
One problem I occasionally have is that the foil groove tends to get slightly corroded or maybe just salted/dirty which makes getting the luff tape up through the track difficult at times. Maybe SVAus has a recommendation about lube of the foil itself? I've been reluctant to put anything that can potentially collect stuff and maybe exacerbate the problem in the foil. I'm not a racer, changing sails a lot, so that probably has something to do with it. The track really does not get a whole lot of use from changing sails very often.
 

·
Mermaid Hunter
Joined
·
5,686 Posts
One problem I occasionally have is that the foil groove tends to get slightly corroded or maybe just salted/dirty which makes getting the luff tape up through the track difficult at times. Maybe SVAus has a recommendation about lube of the foil itself? I've been reluctant to put anything that can potentially collect stuff and maybe exacerbate the problem in the foil. I'm not a racer, changing sails a lot, so that probably has something to do with it. The track really does not get a whole lot of use from changing sails very often.
I already did:

Clean (vinegar-water) and lube (SailKote) the foil track before hoisting the sail again and trying. Note that clean and lube may require two trips up the stick unless you are very coordinated and have lots of room for stuff in your bosun's chair. You'll want rags (I like the big bags of terry rags from a warehouse store), vinegar-water in a spray bottle, a putty knife for deposits that don't want to come off, and a big can of SailKote.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,184 Posts
Rich H has it right, I've been through this myself. I struggled with a reluctant furler for a while, until it wrapped terminally. Then I got to spend half an hour bobbing up and down at the bow, furling the jib by hand. Fix it properly!
 

·
Over Hill Sailing Club
Joined
·
3,688 Posts
I already did:
Sorry, thought you were talking about the gear near the top. Have you ever seen a gadget to run up and down the foil from top to bottom, specifically made to clean out and lube the track, something secure enough to avoid losing the halyard up top? Maybe just a piece of #5 luff tape with two grommets, one attached to the roller and the other to a line? Seems there should be something made to just run up and down a bunch of times to clean and polish up the groove of the foil.
 

·
Mermaid Hunter
Joined
·
5,686 Posts
Sorry, thought you were talking about the gear near the top. Have you ever seen a gadget to run up and down the foil from top to bottom, specifically made to clean out and lube the track, something secure enough to avoid losing the halyard up top? Maybe just a piece of #5 luff tape with two grommets, one attached to the roller and the other to a line? Seems there should be something made to just run up and down a bunch of times to clean and polish up the groove of the foil.
You can do that. I've jammed a rag into the luff groove on a main mast with a downhaul. You can't count on getting it clean if you can't see it. There is no substitute for a person in a chair. It really doesn't take long.

On an Alberg 35 like yours it should be less than a half hour.
 

·
Over Hill Sailing Club
Joined
·
3,688 Posts
You can do that. I've jammed a rag into the luff groove on a main mast with a downhaul. You can't count on getting it clean if you can't see it. There is no substitute for a person in a chair. It really doesn't take long.

On an Alberg 35 like yours it should be less than a half hour.
Doing it with the bosun's chair would be great but I'm always single-handed. I installed mast steps in order to get aloft but they sure won't get me out to the forestay 1/2 way down. It's a stretch even to reach out to the spreader ends. The bosun's chair mainly gets used as a safety and to carry stuff. I am going to sew up a piece of luff tape and maybe even try to find something, some kind of wire brush, maybe like a very small caliber gun cleaning brush to sew into a section of the luff tape. Will likely get the thing jammed half way up and THEN need to find someone to hoist me up:) My foil has two channels. One of them is quite fouled up and really needs a cleaning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,072 Posts
snip

I am guessing the furler had been experiencing some halyard wrap for some time. An examination of the broken stay revealed comprmised forestay wire no longer tightly wound. I installed a Halyard diverter and have never had another issue. I did first try to add a pendant extension but this solution did not resolve the halyard wrap on my boat. The diverter in my situation worked best.
The problem with installing a diverter block to the face of the mast is that youre now limited to using only ONE headsail ... a headsail that exactly matches with the lead angle from the diverter block.
If you raise/use more than just one headsail and the luff dimensions of those various sails are of different length, the pendent method (one pendent for each headsail) is usually more 'versatile'. see post #5 above.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top