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Tartan 27' owner
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Discussion Starter #1

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Tartan 27' owner
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Discussion Starter #3
Agreed ianjoub about the boat speed.

I can almost understand why us news media chose not to include that photo in their reports. While there is no blood or bodies, the violence that boat must have endured is plain to see and rather viscerally disturbing.
 

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Judging by the bow, that was high speed into the jetty and the boat flipped.
That's in line with other reports I've seen—speed was definitely a factor (drugs/alcohol not suspected to be involved).

Well, speed, and the fact that it was almost 3 AM in what I'm told is not the most predictable area. When you're traveling at high speeds in a 30-foot power boat at three in the morning, it probably doesn't take much to send everything sideways.

Jose Fernandez was originally scheduled to start today's (Sunday's) game against Atlanta, but had his start pushed back to Monday, which meant he had Sunday off. You have to figure that, if he'd been starting Sunday as usual, he would have long since been in bed by the time the accident occurred. Which is not to say that the Marlins are in any way to blame for what happened, but there's some disconcerting butterfly effect stuff for you. Mattingly in particular is probably in really bad shape right now. Awful stuff.
 
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Tartan 27' owner
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Butterfly effect:
What is Chaos Theory? ? Fractal Foundation

As boaters we are all more familiar with cause and effect, which certainly falls within the realm of the Butterfly effect.

Forget to stow that extra anchor rode on your boat for a long weekend outing and lose your main anchor?
 

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Incredibly sad story - he was a good guy and well loved in the community here.

It's not uncommon to have boats run into that jetty at night - I've almost done it myself. With the lights of the city in the background the channel markers can get obscured and you can believe you are in clear water if you're not paying close attention.
 
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Stupid to race at high speed at night especially... poor visibility and situational awareness. I've seen a number of this late night crashes into jetties resulting in fatalities in Greenport LI... Looked exactly like this one. Had a day marker at the end.
 

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Old as Dirt!
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When we first moved to Florida we kept our boat at the Miami Beach Marina for several months. Even at that time (1993) the speed with which the go-fast boats would take the Government Cut inlet at all hours of the day and night was stunning. I mentioned the matter to a fellow that was a Fountain (sp?) go-fast boat owner who laughed and responded that he had the "latest" GPS device with which he "...could thread a needle..." so it was a "...no brainer". (I thought "no-brainer" was a fairly accurate description of the practice but kept that sentiment to myself.) I wonder in this case whether they were relying upon GPS rather than keeping track of marks to make their entrance; and, if so, whether the equipment survived well enough for investigators to reconstruct their track.

In any case, it is a sad, sad end and our hearts go out to the victims families...
 

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This certainly is tragic.

But, gosh, what if you had been out there at the time in another boat? If someone is traveling at that kind of speed, would they see your lights?
 

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One report estimated they were going in the 50+ mph at night with virtually no visibility.

He may well have been a "nice guy" but this is Darwin award territory. Thankfully these idiots only killed themselves and not some poor bastard who wasn't handling a boat like a reckless ass.

Sorry but I've seen enough idiot behavior out on Barnegat Bay that I have trouble feeling any sympathy, except for the family they left behind.
 
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Incredibly sad story - he was a good guy and well loved in the community here.

It's not uncommon to have boats run into that jetty at night - I've almost done it myself. With the lights of the city in the background the channel markers can get obscured and you can believe you are in clear water if you're not paying close attention.
Andy, knowing what you just said would you run that inlet at 50+ mph -- at NIGHT -- with NO visibility?

These guys were VERY familiar with those waters. They were incredibly irresponsible and thankfully only killed themselves.

Would it be a sad story if it wasn't a baseball player?
 

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Tartan 27' owner
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Discussion Starter #12
Ok, so finally the us media outlets are showing the photo of the wreck.

I still think it is interesting that bbc.news was the first to show it.

I am trying not to armchair speculate about all the details of this wreck but a new detail has emerged. The 32' boat was registered to Jose Rodriguez.

Impossible to speculate who was at the helm or just how fast they were going.
 

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Andy, knowing what you just said would you run that inlet at 50+ mph -- at NIGHT -- with NO visibility?

These guys were VERY familiar with those waters. They were incredibly irresponsible and thankfully only killed themselves.

Would it be a sad story if it wasn't a baseball player?
Jim - yes I think it would be a sad story regardless of who was involved, but the fact that it involved a well known sports figure just means the incident is getting more attention than if it only involved three average joes. There are a lot of incidents just like this in south Florida every year, and every one of them is a tragedy for the families and friends of the people involved. I do share your resentment for irresponsible boaters, though, whether they are intentionally being jackasses behind the wheel or are just ignorant of basic boater safety.
 
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My experience with "recreational power boats" is that they can't stand going slower than their engines will push the boat... and for the most part consider the waters "theirs". We've also notice that they love to drive across your bow... tossing up a large wake.. even altering course to do this. This is no different from the childish reckless behavior on the road of motorcycles who bob and weave, through traffic... even on the a very crowded highway. Hot "rods" do exactly the same thing here in the NYC metro roads. This is the behavior of selfish narcissists. I suppose they think their wake is like a reminder of how powerful their engines are???? In "open water"... no roads, no signs, no speed limits.. Oh what fun!

And a fair amount of these boats are for speed thrills only... though some big sport fishers are offenders too. There is such easy access to boats.. and no licensing laws in the States... anyone can plot down the cash, pay people to "service" their toys and terrorize local waters at will. They have little to no boating skill... and are a danger themselves, but worse to others.

You don't find many of these irresponsible asshats up in Maine... but in over populated cash rich Southern New England they dominate. Not a good thing.

So many idiots and so little time.
 

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My experience with "recreational power boats" is that they can't stand going slower than their engines will push the boat... and for the most part consider the waters "theirs". We've also notice that they love to drive across your bow... tossing up a large wake.. even altering course to do this.
There's been an increase in this behavior on the Barnegat as well...we've even had them wave to us as they do it, obviously thinking it's funny.
 
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Impossible to speculate who was at the helm or just how fast they were going.
Most of the articles I've seen have said that Fernandez was not driving, but did not say how they were able to determine that. (The one exception I found just said it was "unclear" whether or not Fernandez was driving, but also points out that neither of the other two men who were killed in the wreck had boating licenses).

They've also stated that the initial investigation suggests the boat was traveling at or near its maximum speed, which would put it in the 55-65 mph neighborhood at the time it ran into the jetty.

But I've also seen conflicting reports over who owned the boat itself (some say it was registered to Fernandez, and some say it wasn't), so I guess at this point it's still a bit of "who knows for sure."
 

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I'm a stranger to this jetty, but here's the chart:
Chart 11468

Sand as far as the eye can see to the north, and partly to the south, with the only "rocks" being the entrance jetties, guarded by flashing red nun "12" right near where they ran up onto the north jetty, and quick-flashing green can "11" opposite.

Hard for me to understand, at least from afar. Harbor entrances are where you go from electronic to primarily visual lookout, and slow down from "sea speed".
 

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I've been through that inlet more times than I can count. It is well marked and well lit. Of course I'm generally not going 50 mph. *grin* In my experience even the go-fast guys in full daylight don't run that fast.

I wasn't there and all any of us have to go on is reporting (notoriously bad) and one picture.

I have some speculation but I'm not sure that it would be useful before the official findings are released.
 

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Fernandez was not in command. In fact, it has been reported that the owner of the boat--who was onboard, was also killed, and undoubtedly was in command--was familiar with the area and took friends (including Fernandez and other Marlins players) out night fishing quite regularly. Stupidly dangerous on his part, but his companions probably didn't really know any better. They trusted him. They probably shouldn't have, but they obviously did. So saying that Fernandez's death was a "Darwin Award" situation is incredibly heartless and unfair.

This was clearly the fault of the boat's operator, and no one else. I find it pretty cold, but I guess I can understand if someone wants to say that he got what he deserved. The deaths of the other two, however, are nothing short of an absolute tragedy.
 

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Fernandez was not in command. In fact, it has been reported that the owner of the boat--who was onboard, was also killed, and undoubtedly was in command--was familiar with the area and took friends (including Fernandez and other Marlins players) out night fishing quite regularly. Stupidly dangerous on his part, but his companions probably didn't really know any better. They trusted him. They probably shouldn't have, but they obviously did. So saying that Fernandez's death was a "Darwin Award" situation is incredibly heartless and unfair.
On the subject of "notoriously bad," it has been variously reported that Fernandez was not the owner of the boat, that Fernandez was the owner of the boat (or was at least the name of record on the registration), that Fernandez was not driving, that it is currently unknown whether or not Fernandez was driving, that the boat owner made such outings regularly, that neither of the two non-Fernandez-ers even had boating licenses, etc.

Honestly, though, regardless of what information the reports finally settle on, I'm of the position that no matter what the circumstances, experience levels, ownership situations, or driver scenarios were, going 50+ mph at 3 AM in an area with rocky jetties is never going to be a great idea.
 
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