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snake charmer, cat herder
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2,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
ok so i went into marina here in barra de navidad in june, towed in, ignominiously, by panga due to runaway diesel experience... fun.... we even grounded softly on way into marina and lost steering..lol cable jumped off quadrant -- is fixed .
we have been fixing everything except engine over the past 5 months, and now we get around to the problem we dont wanna deal with. i even has some , err, one set ratlines on main mast shrouding. found wood for belaying pin rails fro december for my christmas present to boat.

we looked all over block for numbers. finding none of the indented variety, we decided ours is a bastid perkins sin numeros and therefore deserves different colors.





ok and parts will look even different after our artist is dine with certain lil bits she is painting with pretties and intricate lil stufffies which will not be known even by me until it is done.

so.
so far engine went back together nicely...had to fab some bushings for fuel line...went to injector place for diesel bits//funny how they were closed, so we went to a transmission shop and had some made... price was excellent..nada/ gratis.. wow. i love mexico. try that in usa!!!
so my boat is one with spare bushings for injetionsystem. lol
then we go to start the beastie.

KALUNK

ok. corrosion on terminals. fixed.now i has better battery power.
next day we do some more lil stuffies to engine beast....

KALUNK


now i am asked if i have a pry bar. (some of you know what is next..lol)

no pry bar in marina. ok. so all boats here are megas and some very few cruisers who left for summer...

OK GUYS, WHY DONT YE CARRY A PRY BAR IN YOUR CRUISING BOATS!!???

SOO..... spozedly today we lube beejeeziz out of the interior of engine and wait.
prybar is being built. is raining like crazy today as we are under a pretend tropical storm wannabe(is too late in season for a real one) so work may have to wait to tomorrow yet again....(see how it coulda seized up , as we had to wait a lot this past season. we had letters A-S form over us in some fashion, as we are southwest coast of mexico, 20 miles north of manzanillo)

yeah . the engine seized up while we waited after runaway so we get to unklunk it and make it new inside. ok
is only money...

meanwhile, i could be stuck in a worse place.

but i WANT noise and smoke and drippyness and leakiness and smoke......and....NOISE.
i WANT noise!!!!!! i WANT stinky......ggrrr

is gorgeous here. is actually a good place to stash a boat for summer, as long as rates are low in summer...for me the rate differential summer at 4400 pesos to winter at 14000 pesos.... peso is being charged here in marina at 12.15 to one usdollar.
rate is 13.0 at present.
good thing it is gorgeous here.
and parts are findable.
aarrgghh..my feet itch bad......

ok so now i cannot brag on how my sailing weather is soooo awesome...... aargghhh
but i will sail opb while mine is repairing.....so i still could have pix if i can find wifi like today..lol..on my boat.


here is how it looked after a nice named storm not too long ago...
 

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snake charmer, cat herder
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2,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
corrosion in 2 cylinders and dirty injectors. figgered we would have dirty injectors as per history.
working on this .. will keep posted after the tboomer from hell leaves us alone. no mas de electricos (luces) horita.....oops.. this is invest 98e feeders...lovely end of season non named storm with 30 percent chance..yada yada bye bye....
 

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corrosion in 2 cylinders and dirty injectors. figgered we would have dirty injectors as per history.
working on this .. will keep posted after the tboomer from hell leaves us alone. no mas de electricos (luces) horita.....oops.. this is invest 98e feeders...lovely end of season non named storm with 30 percent chance..yada yada bye bye....
I see, I think. "runaway diesel experience"? Curious to know why? Don't see a turbo? Excess engine oil blowby? Injector pump run amok? Did it seize during the runaway?

Paul T
 

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snake charmer, cat herder
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2,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
just prior to coming into marina we had runaway,. was stopped by cracking all 4 injectors, so we figgered it to be fuel delivery, aka injector pump. we got the lift pump and injector pump and the transmission heat exchanger rebuilt here and now we put it back together to find omg no go just literally ka lunk. so......onward and upward.....today we found the dirty injectors which does follow the history of this boat and this engine.
now we look for where the water is coming into cylinders so we can fix that and fix the cylinders and all the rest to be able to leave this precious pricy palace that costs arms and legs and such and continue on along my cheapo cruising lifestyle.

is perkins 4-108, probably built in 1982, or there abouts as the forging drop number is august of 1982.
 

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just prior to coming into marina we had runaway,. was stopped by cracking all 4 injectors, so we figgered it to be fuel delivery, aka injector pump. we got the lift pump and injector pump and the transmission heat exchanger rebuilt here and now we put it back together to find omg no go just literally ka lunk. so......onward and upward.....today we found the dirty injectors which does follow the history of this boat and this engine.
now we look for where the water is coming into cylinders so we can fix that and fix the cylinders and all the rest to be able to leave this precious pricy palace that costs arms and legs and such and continue on along my cheapo cruising lifestyle.

is perkins 4-108, probably built in 1982, or there abouts as the forging drop number is august of 1982.
My apologies, but I am having just a bit of a problem understanding some of your descriptions. Did it overheat prior to or during the runaway? If so, maybe a blown head gasket allowing coolant into the cylinders, or worse, a cracked head or block?

That must have been interesting opening all four fittings while the engine is trying to scatter itself. Maybe a fuel shut off valve somewhere downstream of the filters? Not sure if an injector pump going wacko is usual or unusual? Maybe some of the experts out there can comment?

Paul T
 

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snake charmer, cat herder
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2,648 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
there was no overheat and no detonation when we had runaway
injector pump rebuilder found sea water in the injector pump, in places it shouldnt have been able to access..
i bought the engine used. i put 3000 miles on it at 1.2-4.5 kts per hour except when we sailed at 8.4 kts in a chubasco...(.hooyaah that was fun...lol)
i was in cockpit, repair guy was on the engine within 5 min of onset it as off. he was pale and shakey. i have gauges in cabin near engine, so he was watching the temp as he cracked the injectors --no overheat of water. engine has always run well and not ever hot even in hot ocean.

hopefully is only a blown head gasket if anything...i dont wanna have to replace the block...but if i had to, i guess here would be as good as anywhere--but we would have t find someone with a truck and a crane--those things are not availabe in this location
 

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there was no overheat and no detonation when we had runaway
injector pump rebuilder found sea water in the injector pump, in places it shouldnt have been able to access..
i bought the engine used. i put 3000 miles on it at 1.2-4.5 kts per hour except when we sailed at 8.4 kts in a chubasco...(.hooyaah that was fun...lol)
i was in cockpit, repair guy was on the engine within 5 min of onset it as off. he was pale and shakey. i have gauges in cabin near engine, so he was watching the temp as he cracked the injectors --no overheat of water. engine has always run well and not ever hot even in hot ocean.

hopefully is only a blown head gasket if anything...i dont wanna have to replace the block...but if i had to, i guess here would be as good as anywhere--but we would have t find someone with a truck and a crane--those things are not availabe in this location
"Pale & shaking"?, brave guy to get that close to it. Sea water in the pump? If you have a good water separator it is hard to imagine where it came from?

Maybe "dirty injectors" are a sign of some water in the fuel? Any water in the lube oil, milky colored oil? In any event it is seized? There have been some posts here about how to "un-seize" it, from penetrating oil from the top to hammering on the pistons, which sounds a bit scary. But at this point, you don't have too much to lose. Let us know what happens.

Paul T
 

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snake charmer, cat herder
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Discussion Starter #9
the water in the fuel pump wasnt from my boat. it was antique and in places not normally found with water during a fail in system. it was outside of the fuel passage areas.
i have racor, no water in my fuel and all is well there.... we did have many troubles with air in fuel line but that isnt the same problem. no condensation in these 85-95 degree f waters with 85-90 f air.
no cafe au lait, no mayonnaise
all we had was black carbon and black fuel from return line. then fuel in oil, after i got into marina there was fuel in oil on the second change, not the immediate oil change after runaway.

most of the gremlins with this engine have been identified and given names....soon we will master it and let ye know what it is....mebbe even have pix....
oh, yes. we are doing the we aint got no spare dough repair.
it will be done so there is minimal damage caused by the repairing itself.
estimate of number of hours on this beastie which was really not treated right, as it wasnt aligned and motor mounts were so flakey...
3000 miles at average 3 miles per hour. before i got it, is unknown. drop date on block is 1982.
it is good there are easily obtained parts here for reasonable prices.
 

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Zee...
The obvious problem is not enough pink paint. good luck! look for the simple solution grasshopper!
 
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Kalunk is hardly ever good. Will engine turn over by starter? with crow bar? Will it turn with injectors out. Water in cylinder? Possible bent/broken con rod? How's the compression? Broken rings don't cause klunk but still not good. At least the parts are colour coded for reassembly . I've done several 4 108 's on cardboard and carpet on the salon sole but easier to lift out with a cumma long if it comes to that and replace with my favourite, a 60 hp Isuzu .
 

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Not unheard of to leak coolant into exhaust port from manifold to await turning of crank and kalunk. Hardly ever one problem but an interesting cascade of causality. Waiting for updates with baited breath.
 

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Learning the HARD way...
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just prior to coming into marina we had runaway,. was stopped by cracking all 4 injectors, so we figgered it to be fuel delivery, aka injector pump. we got the lift pump and injector pump and the transmission heat exchanger rebuilt here and now we put it back together to find omg no go just literally ka lunk. so......onward and upward.....today we found the dirty injectors which does follow the history of this boat and this engine.
now we look for where the water is coming into cylinders so we can fix that and fix the cylinders and all the rest to be able to leave this precious pricy palace that costs arms and legs and such and continue on along my cheapo cruising lifestyle.

is perkins 4-108, probably built in 1982, or there abouts as the forging drop number is august of 1982.
FWIW - The reason that cracking the injectors stopped the runaway (I can't believe that someone did this on a running engine:eek:) is that compression was lost. Whatever the source of fuel that the engine was running on, it could no longer ignite, due to the lower compression.

I don't know the Perky in particular, but the preferred way to stop a runaway is to block the air supply.

For the symptom that you describe, I would suggest that you put a socket on that big nut on the crankshaft and try to turn the engine over slowly. If you can do this, then the kerlunk is the starter/battery. However, if you can turn the engine, I would then try to VERIFY that you have the compression within each cylinder within spec.

It is likely that a connecting rod, or a bearing, went bye-bye. This is because the loss in compression when the injectors were removed, allowed the pistons to place unusual strain on the connecting rods and bearings (that the compression was no longer helping to slow these rapidly moving parts down). This is why those of us with compression release levers should NEVER use them to stop a run away engine. It is better to cram a cushion in the air cleaner.

I suspect that you may have a connecting rod that has detached itself from a piston, and is stuck against a cylinder wall. Turning the engine over slowly, and testing compression will help you diagnose if this is the case.
 

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snake charmer, cat herder
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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
FWIW - The reason that cracking the injectors stopped the runaway (I can't believe that someone did this on a running engine:eek:) is that compression was lost. Whatever the source of fuel that the engine was running on, it could no longer ignite, due to the lower compression.

I don't know the Perky in particular, but the preferred way to stop a runaway is to block the air supply.

For the symptom that you describe, I would suggest that you put a socket on that big nut on the crankshaft and try to turn the engine over slowly. If you can do this, then the kerlunk is the starter/battery. However, if you can turn the engine, I would then try to VERIFY that you have the compression within each cylinder within spec.

It is likely that a connecting rod, or a bearing, went bye-bye. This is because the loss in compression when the injectors were removed, allowed the pistons to place unusual strain on the connecting rods and bearings (that the compression was no longer helping to slow these rapidly moving parts down). This is why those of us with compression release levers should NEVER use them to stop a run away engine. It is better to cram a cushion in the air cleaner.

I suspect that you may have a connecting rod that has detached itself from a piston, and is stuck against a cylinder wall. Turning the engine over slowly, and testing compression will help you diagnose if this is the case.
all of what you guys said is all well and good. this was not a fuel line fix. this was a crack injectors fix.
it wasnt the engine blowby causing this it was injector pump grande fail.
then came the rest.
yeehaaaw.....
and so ka lunk , as i shall rename my gremlin riddled engine, is going to be silent for yet another month until we get more parts. like a head gasket.
we will also have the head examined...not the toilet, the engines head..lol
the appropriate wrench has been painted green and shall live on an attachment to engine in appropriate location.
who has time to don appropriate safety apparel when your engine is running at 28000 rpm.. rodlmffao.aint happening. you die with it if you are there.
is why my repair guy had pallor not color.
no it cannot be stopped by pinching fuel line.. that is wasted time and energy. go for the engine FAST or both you and boat will DIE.
pinching fuel line only does that which the now nonfunctional kill switch does. now , as you are burning only what is or was in your oil tank, kill the engine. injectors will do that. they are readily available and fastest way to kill the 29000rpm grenade to be.
tennis ball in a mushroom shaped air cleaner..not just no but****NO, as you first must remove that lovely mushroom and that is also wasted energy and effort. go for the first thing you are able to kill. injectors. or stuff a shirt into the mushroom and pray you havent any air leaks into engine...
do not wast time.

mine ranaway for less than 5 minuets.
no registered overheat(water system) and no BOOM.....now is just stuck.
nothing an old derelict boatwright cannot fix, at this time. it will just take a bit of time, as money is rare when disabled..lol...poco a poco.

as for the main part of engine being bad now--i think not. perkins isnt yanmar or delicately made fancy engine....they are forklift, bus and tractor engines with burliness and gutz. there was NO boom. no detonation . no noise of appropriate sound to have broken interior of engine beyond what we have so far found. all makes sense.
until one has actually experienced this and been thru it, it is all well and good to spew noise and type words, but the reality is that this is how it was. i didnt make up a theoretical bs trollit thread, honey, i lived tru this with my boat intact and my repair guy still alive and willing to work.
nor did i die or pull a ***** girly move and quit.
we will remove the head in a month's time and take to repair shop to evaluate its trueness and repair what is necessary to repair. it is a wondrous blessing i am not doing this in usa, as pricing would be more than 5 times greater than it will be.
my injector pump and lift pump and transmission oil heat exchanger cost me less than 200 usdollars to rebuild in full each and every piece i took to the wonderful and intelligent pump rebuilder, who is mexican and awesome good. try doing that in usa. pparts alone would kill ye in price.
i writ that which i endure as teaching for others. whenye bad my words you negate the experience i am trying to relate. quit the argumentative bs as it is not productive.
what i endured i endured. so did my repair guy. and my boat.
i will post updates as i am able to so do. enjoy your winter. mine will be spent fixing instead of sailing. yes it is our best sailing season and i am missing outdammit.......
thank gods for opb......

first kalunk was investigated as battery so we fixed that. not involved. is mechanical, not electrical.


btw, i am not an engine ingenue..i am a motorhead, and have much experience with blowing up engines what with having done much work for many years in sports car racing arena. hell, i even repaired my own 1970 buick gs 455 stage I. biggest engine i ever fixed....lol....i was used to repairing all volkswagens even my mommas before i did nursing work.
throwing a rod , warping heads, holing pistons, and breaking valves and pushrods is a great way to learn how not to do it...also watching others do same is even funner.

engines are quite similar in systems to humans.

i love the smell of petrochemicals and hydrocarbons in the morning.....
 
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