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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A few weeks ago I decided that my continuing back problem, worsening knees and compromised balance was a reason to end my ownership of Shiva, a Contest 36s I had bought new in August 1985. It was a very hard decision. The boat was our "weekend" home... as we live in an apartment. Even when we didn't sail we would stay aboard for weekends and enjoy the beautiful harbor and the calm. We loved cruising to harbors from City Island to Mount Desert Island. I recall very well when on Sept 11 2001 I drove to pick up my wife and escape to our boat which at the time was moored in Stirling Harbor, Greenport. We felt safe there and had everything on board we need to carry on our lives. There are untold number of memories living in that boat including 5 years of living aboard and cruising the Caribbean. In fact my identity as an architect changed to be a sailor who worked as an architect.
My best friend who introduced me to sailing and mentored me for years... passed away 2 years ago. He used to tell me frequently to keep the boat when I got old because owning the boat, caring for the boat, sailing the boat was therapeutic. He sold his boat a few months before he died. I think to make that easier for his wife.
Over the past months as I mostly worked on my never ending list of projects I realized it was getting harder and hard to do them... I paced myself... I was not in a rush... But I was slowing down. We didn't sail much because the weather was just pain lousy. If this was the coming pattern... that was another reason to exit.
So I contacted a broker and arranged for him to see the boat... which was in great shape. I had no idea what the boat was worth to someone else. Of course I out tens of thousands of dollars into the boat over the years and thousands of hours of work. My improvements made this 36s very special. I have been planning an nav electronics upgrade to N2K but was holding off as my present instruments work perfectly and do the job. I also figured that the next owner would upgrade the electronics to suit them. I think all boat owners enjoy "tricking out" their boats and making them fit to their needs.
So the broker comes by... nice enough fella. He had just sold a Beneteau 37 across the dock from me. He spent less than 45 minutes. Took some photos of the exterior and the interior... But I I found him completely incurious about what I had done. He told me the RIB and OB were not going to be in the listing, He told me to remove everything in the lockers. He didn't want to look at my dry bilge. I offered to show him and lifted the floor board. My impression was he did not know Contest although he told me he had sold Halburg Rassy and had been a Baltic dealer at some point to "give me confidence". He did not mention any familiarity with Contest. And there are very few of them in the States. I think I know of most of the 36s in the region and have been contacted by their owners for assistance. I am the grand daddy of 36s owners. I get referrals for helping new owners from the broker who had been selling them for years. I told the broker I have hundreds of photos of the boat and every detail in it if he wanted them. He seemed indifferent.
A week later an email arrived from the broker.

He spelled my name wrong:

Hi Jeffery​
After looking at the comps and I also had a couple of other brokers in my firm run comps. We all felt that a asking price on the vessel should be $39,000. This asking price reflects the current strong market.​
It was also suggested that the vessel should be hauled and a quick structural survey be preformed by a accredited​
marine surveyor.​

WOW was I unimpressed. Wife and I had already decided to keep the boat before the email arrived and were both curious as to what he would tell me. She laughed. The Contest Owners Club members told me that the value was ridiculous and the boats were selling for much more in Europe. And I have looked at those boats and most are newer but hardly as well appointed and upgraded. That's fine. Many people just want a good boat to sail not an ongoing "property" to improve. They own for a number of years and buy a bigger boat. I have not met anyone who has owned the same boat for 36 years. Sure many have been sailing longer and have owned several boats.

We are not going to stay on a dock in summer. It's close and convenient for work... but not a place we would spend a weekend. No privacy, no breeze... no views. Next summer we move back to a mooring in a lovely harbor.

I will have to come up with a plan for the next owner of the boat. It's that time of life. Not there yet...
Water Sky Boat Watercraft Tree
 

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Great to hear you've decided to keep the boat.

Yes, the brokers valuation is correct.

Sorry to tell you. But folks can buy a 20 year newer 40 footer for $10k more than yours.

It hurts, I know it hurts. I was out at dinner with a broker that specialises in smaller, old boats and she confirmed my pessimistic valuation on my boat and how monos languish and cats sell.

As for Europe, nope, they're not after older boats either.

This means that it's a great option to continue to enjoy your boat, and, most importantly, ease up on the self-imposed work list. There is no value in working too hard on your boat. Use it. Enjoy it. If the varnish falls off who gives a rats bum? Don't rewire NMEA but buy a PC, ipad or smartphone instead.


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Great to hear you've decided to keep the boat.

Yes, the brokers valuation is correct.

Sorry to tell you. But folks can buy a 20 year newer 40 footer for $10k more than yours.

It hurts, I know it hurts. I was out at dinner with a broker that specialises in smaller, old boats and she confirmed my pessimistic valuation on my boat and how monos languish and cats sell.

As for Europe, nope, they're not after older boats either.

This means that it's a great option to continue to enjoy your boat, and, most importantly, ease up on the self-imposed work list. There is no value in working too hard on your boat. Use it. Enjoy it. If the varnish falls off who gives a rats bum? Don't rewire NMEA but buy a PC, ipad or smartphone instead.


Mark
I think that the Contest is a sort of "cult boat" and this, at least in northern Europe has kept prices higher than for similar sized boats of the same age range. This was what Contest owners in Europe wrote to me.
I am not going to take on difficult / large projects without competent help. But I DO enjoy "improving" the boat. Broker tells me painting the bilge will make a prospective buyer think I am "covering some defect up". This is not true.... Same for painting the engine... which he said was something I should not do.
I am not a varnish freak and have done little varnish work as the varnish on the teak has held up very very well. I did strip and redo the cockpit table varnish and the coaming trims. But this is not a lot of work... the table was done at home over the winter,,, and it protects and preserves this teak.
The electronics upgrade is clearly not needed. It's like tires which have a fair amount of wear in the treads... You can drive with them,.... they are safe... but at some point will not be and should be replaced. People do drive on tires with no enough tread and imperil others. I end up replacing a tire when I get some sort of flat which cannot be repaired.. I don't replace all 4 tires when one has a repair.
Likewise I can replace a component like a plotter when it fails. However I cannot find new matching dash displays... no longer made and new ones work with N2K protocol. So at some point I will be forced to do the N2K upgrade. I sense the upgrade to N2K is not far off. For now... I am OK.
 

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If the valuation is correct that's rather disheartening news. Like others have said, might as well keep the boat as long as you are able. I'm most likely going to be selling soon ( whatever that means) I don't want to leave it as a burden for my kids to have to deal with. They'll have enough to deal with as it is. At least they are both people who purge rather than accumulate (most people call what I do hoarding, but I prefer to call it accumulating). I suspect that not long after I'm gone that they will ponder why in the world would someone need nine hammers???? That's the problem with academic types ....
they don't know what they don't know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If the valuation is correct that's rather disheartening news. Like others have said, might as well keep the boat as long as you are able. I'm most likely going to be selling soon ( whatever that means) I don't want to leave it as a burden for my kids to have to deal with. They'll have enough to deal with as it is. At least they are both people who purge rather than accumulate (most people call what I do hoarding, but I prefer to call it accumulating). I suspect that not long after I'm gone that they will ponder why in the world would someone need nine hammers???? That's the problem with academic types ....
they don't know what they don't know.
If I am survived by my wife, she will have to deal with it. She knows she can call a broker and have the boat sold.... they can move it to a yard and have it hauled and so on. Maybe her grown son will want the boat and learn how to sail and care for it. He's been on boat many times.
I'd consider giving the boat to charity... rather than selling it for a pittance. I suppose they sell it for a pittance and use the money for the needy.
 

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The broker doesn't sound very good, but to be fair, there is not a lot of money to be made from older boats like yours, so probably wasn't prepared to put too much effort into selling it anyway. If you did decide to sell her you would probably be better off selling privately, and creating your own ad using your knowledge to tell people what she really is, and exploit your contacts among enthusiasts for your type of boat to find someone who really appreciates what she really is. You probably won't mind letting the boat go for a lower price if you find someone who is going to treasure her as much as you have.

As for the valuation, it could be fairly accurate for your region. How much they sell for in Europe is irrelevant because nobody is going to go to the expense of moving a boat that old across the ocean.

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The broker doesn't sound very good, but to be fair, there is not a lot of money to be made from older boats like yours, so probably wasn't prepared to put too much effort into selling it anyway. If you did decide to sell her you would probably be better off selling privately, and creating your own ad using your knowledge to tell people what she really is, and exploit your contacts among enthusiasts for your type of boat to find someone who really appreciates what she really is. You probably won't mind letting the boat go for a lower price if you find someone who is going to treasure her as much as you have.

As for the valuation, it could be fairly accurate for your region. How much they sell for in Europe is irrelevant because nobody is going to go to the expense of moving a boat that old across the ocean.

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk
Good post. For sure boat aesthetics have evolved since this boat was designed. I suppose there are also some new hull technologies out there. However... I for one don't even like many of the newer boats.... and features... such as instrument pods and dual helms which seem to be very common... or GPS driven APs. The 36s is a very good design as far as interior features... a huge dry comfortable cockpit and a large flat deck work on if needed. It's also a very good sailor for 36' boat... I do 150-175 NM in 24hrs on passages. This is not intended as a stripped out racer. It was designed and marketed as a racer-cruiser... a weird designation in my opinion. It's not a slow heavy cruising boat and it's not a plastic race boat. The craftsmanship is steller... the build quality second to none. Catalina, Hunter etc. and so forth are not comparable boats. A person wanting a Halberg Rassy is not going to look at Hunters.
I am perfectly aware of who the buyer for this boat is. And it is not Joe Sailor going to a broker to "see what he's got on his listings". The person who wants a 36s and particularly THIS one with it's equipment list and owner improvements, know the brand, the boat and is looking for THAT not a 36 or 38' boat.
I think of it like getting a new used car... Do you look for a sedan or a BMW, Audi or Benz? Almost every buyer knows the brand and model they want. And as there are millions of cars buyers are more educated. Boats are very much different. And this boat is very rare in the States. I was the only Contest moored in Northport (1000 boats) Dering Harbor, Stirling Harbor, Sag Harbor and in almost every winter store location I was over 36 years.
I am not desperate to sell the boat and will keep it but find help in maintenance... I already gave up DIY on the bottom waxing and so forth. Changing oil and filters is something I can do with no problem. I always (almost) has help with getting sails on and off... I will continue.
I think sale by owner is the way to go. I can make a page and post it and see who bites... but not for now.
Onward!
 

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Sander, I would say that your boat is an add for you even if you never sail her again. The reasons you listed in your first post are why we have not sold Interlude. I had a very real brush with death this spring and the resultant emergency open heart surgery. I am unable to sail presently and am not getting younger. I paid to have her sails put on this year as i could not begin to lift the sail bags. I will more than likely pay to have them removed. I don't get to Interlude as much now but hopefully that will change. When I am aboard, knowing she is ready to go even though i am not is very comforting. The broker and owner of our marina talked me out of selling her. My wife did too. We first set foot aboard her at the Annapolis boat show in 1989 and i suspect we will continue to have her in our lives even if circumstances have changed. Don't sell her, I'm sure your friend who recently passed away lost a little of his life before his passing when he sold his boat. Don't underestimate the therapeutic effect of simply sitting in her cockpit and dreaming.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Th
Sander, I would say that your boat is an add for you even if you never sail her again. The reasons you listed in your first post are why we have not sold Interlude. I had a very real brush with death this spring and the resultant emergency open heart surgery. I am unable to sail presently and am not getting younger. I paid to have her sails put on this year as i could not begin to lift the sail bags. I will more than likely pay to have them removed. I don't get to Interlude as much now but hopefully that will change. When I am aboard, knowing she is ready to go even though i am not is very comforting. The broker and owner of our marina talked me out of selling her. My wife did too. We first set foot aboard her at the Annapolis boat show in 1989 and i suspect we will continue to have her in our lives even if circumstances have changed. Don't sell her, I'm sure your friend who recently passed away lost a little of his life before his passing when he sold his boat. Don't underestimate the therapeutic effect of simply sitting in her cockpit and dreaming.
Thank you for this post. Thankfully I can still sail and with the wife it's pretty much not a problem and not at all when mooring or anchoring. Boat is in good shape and so needed maintenance is not pressing. I have projects because I like to be "optimizing" the boat,,, and will do them when I can and when I have the money... like the N2K upgrade.

One of my projects evolved. I stored the boat when I had lumbar surgery and when I splashed her the tach was under reading. First I had to figure out why... faulty gauge... faulty sender... faulty wiring. That project got me to seek a replacement gauge after replacing the sender did not change anything and temping a new wire... wires were OK. It was an ordeal to find a no longer manufactured tach. I looked for used. Got a few which didn't seem to work right. This was a crazy problem. Finally I located one that fit and picked it up in Milford, installed it and it seemed accurate. I will connect both tachs and confirm that one is wrong (or maybe discover the old one is OK hahaha). But in the process of removing the panel trying the various gauges I managed screw up some of the wiring to other gauges... The wiring was a mess and I had to actually draw up a wiring diagram, make up some new wires and so on. I Also cracked the corner of the case the gauge sits in. I was able to get a new one... so once again took everything apart and rewired it again. In the process I discovered the Oil Pressure sender was broken. Again bought a gauge and a sender, checked the wires and it turned out to be the sender. I returned the gauge. Everything is working and in a new panel. This was a long project, but not a hard one... I can't even remember how many times I worked on the panel. Frustrating but satisfaction in the end... and everything in the panel is much better than it was.

It's not unusual for one project to morph into another or bigger one. I don't mind... When I am done the boat is better than before... new parts, neatly installed...or even better. Can't top this: ....like the AGM 8D & 12v and battery upgrade.

Circuit component Electricity Electronic engineering Electrical wiring Audio equipment

Without the boat I would be bored and looking at flat screen TV more of the time.
Rationally it makes no sense to sell the boat.
 

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Good post. For sure boat aesthetics have evolved since this boat was designed. I suppose there are also some new hull technologies out there. However... I for one don't even like many of the newer boats.... and features... such as instrument pods and dual helms which seem to be very common... or GPS driven APs. The 36s is a very good design as far as interior features... a huge dry comfortable cockpit and a large flat deck work on if needed. It's also a very good sailor for 36' boat... I do 150-175 NM in 24hrs on passages. This is not intended as a stripped out racer. It was designed and marketed as a racer-cruiser... a weird designation in my opinion. It's not a slow heavy cruising boat and it's not a plastic race boat. The craftsmanship is steller... the build quality second to none. Catalina, Hunter etc. and so forth are not comparable boats. A person wanting a Halberg Rassy is not going to look at Hunters.
I am perfectly aware of who the buyer for this boat is. And it is not Joe Sailor going to a broker to "see what he's got on his listings". The person who wants a 36s and particularly THIS one with it's equipment list and owner improvements, know the brand, the boat and is looking for THAT not a 36 or 38' boat.
I think of it like getting a new used car... Do you look for a sedan or a BMW, Audi or Benz? Almost every buyer knows the brand and model they want. And as there are millions of cars buyers are more educated. Boats are very much different. And this boat is very rare in the States. I was the only Contest moored in Northport (1000 boats) Dering Harbor, Stirling Harbor, Sag Harbor and in almost every winter store location I was over 36 years.
I am not desperate to sell the boat and will keep it but find help in maintenance... I already gave up DIY on the bottom waxing and so forth. Changing oil and filters is something I can do with no problem. I always (almost) has help with getting sails on and off... I will continue.
I think sale by owner is the way to go. I can make a page and post it and see who bites... but not for now.
Onward!
======================================================

Hope is not too private a question,if so, apologize.
Why the name Shiva?
David
 

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A few thoughts:
  • Does owning the boat "stress" you? Worry that she will run down? Sell.
  • If it starts to run down sell, before it does. Much easier.
  • >35 years with one boat. Yes, unusual. I understand the average with cruising boats is more like 8-10 years. I'm on my 4th sailboat (37 years).
  • Are there other things you enjoy? There should be. There better be. You'll need another obsession.
  • Consider downsizing. I have. Just as much fun, much less work. I was done cruising.
None of those? Keep her for a while. But don't keep her out of momentum.

When it is time to sell, SBO can be great, but it takes some smart work:
  • Start a blog now. Document stuff. MAke it look fun. It will form a good foundation.
  • Be visible in the owner's group.
  • Use a closing service for escrow and closing. Makes it "feel" like using a broker to the buyer and is MUCH cheaper.
  • Rare boat? Write a review for Good Old Boat Magazine or similar. It's real work, but also fun and great advertising when the time comes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
======================================================

Hope is not too private a question,if so, apologize.
Why the name Shiva?
David
It's not too private... Here's the story. My sailing mentor/best friend who passed away had a Contest 31HT he had named Diva. He also happened to have a GF at the time who sand opera... It was a nice name for a boat... spoiled and all.
I took a trip the summer I bought the boat... and visited Nepal where I encountered Hindu culture. Upon my return I was having dinner in a Indian restaurant on the upper West Side with a college classmate and we tried to find a good name for the boat. I thought maybe a Hindu god... they have many of them... and Shiva is one of them and it rhymed with Diva and a sort of homage to my friend's boat. We were moored in Dering Harbor 100 feet apart,

from Wiki:
Shiva is known as "The Destroyer" within the Trimurti, the triple deity of supreme divinity that includes Brahma and Vishnu.[1][21] In the Shaivite tradition, Shiva is the Supreme Lord who creates, protects and transforms the universe.[9][10][11] In the Shakta tradition, the Goddess, or Devi, is described as one of the supreme, yet Shiva is revered along with Vishnu and Brahma. A goddess is stated to be the energy and creative power (Shakti) of each, with Parvati (Sati) the equal complementary partner of Shiva.[22][23] He is one of the five equivalent deities in Panchayatana puja of the Smarta tradition of Hinduism.[12]
Shiva is the primal Atman (Self) of the universe.[9][24][25] There are many both benevolent and fearsome depictions of Shiva. In benevolent aspects, he is depicted as an omniscient Yogi who lives an ascetic life on Mount Kailash[1] as well as a householder with wife Parvati and his two children, Ganesha and Kartikeya. In his fierce aspects, he is often depicted slaying demons. Shiva is also known as Adiyogi Shiva, regarded as the patron god of yoga, meditation and arts

So I "destroyed" and savings account and created a life of sailing and discovery,

The name has nothing to do with the Hebrew period of mourning. But I am asked about this occasionally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
A few thoughts:
  • Does owning the boat "stress" you? Worry that she will run down? Sell.
  • If it starts to run down sell, before it does. Much easier.
  • >35 years with one boat. Yes, unusual. I understand the average with cruising boats is more like 8-10 years. I'm on my 4th sailboat (37 years).
  • Are there other things you enjoy? There should be. There better be. You'll need another obsession.
  • Consider downsizing. I have. Just as much fun, much less work. I was done cruising.
None of those? Keep her for a while. But don't keep her out of momentum.

When it is time to sell, SBO can be great, but it takes some smart work:
  • Start a blog now. Document stuff. MAke it look fun. It will form a good foundation.
  • Be visible in the owner's group.
  • Use a closing service for escrow and closing. Makes it "feel" like using a broker to the buyer and is MUCH cheaper.
  • Rare boat? Write a review for Good Old Boat Magazine or similar. It's real work, but also fun and great advertising when the time comes.
good wisdom there.
Boat is extensively "documented"
Age is not as important as condition and performance and for me aesthetics. I suppose the same applies for people who like classic cars.
 

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Without the boat I would be bored and looking at flat screen TV more of the time.
That’s the exit ramp to a death sentence. Avoid at all costs.

If you never sell the boat, it will always be worth whatever you say it’s worth. If you do sell her, someone else gets a say too.
 

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I'm kinda glad to hear you decide to keep her Sander. Sounds like she is worth more to you than just about anyone else out there. Why not keep her and use her as health and ability allows? Sitting at a dock or on a mooring is still a good way to live.
 

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It's not too private... Here's the story. My sailing mentor/best friend who passed away had a Contest 31HT he had named Diva. He also happened to have a GF at the time who sand opera... It was a nice name for a boat... spoiled and all.
I took a trip the summer I bought the boat... and visited Nepal where I encountered Hindu culture. Upon my return I was having dinner in a Indian restaurant on the upper West Side with a college classmate and we tried to find a good name for the boat. I thought maybe a Hindu god... they have many of them... and Shiva is one of them and it rhymed with Diva and a sort of homage to my friend's boat. We were moored in Dering Harbor 100 feet apart,

from Wiki:
Shiva is known as "The Destroyer" within the Trimurti, the triple deity of supreme divinity that includes Brahma and Vishnu.[1][21] In the Shaivite tradition, Shiva is the Supreme Lord who creates, protects and transforms the universe.[9][10][11] In the Shakta tradition, the Goddess, or Devi, is described as one of the supreme, yet Shiva is revered along with Vishnu and Brahma. A goddess is stated to be the energy and creative power (Shakti) of each, with Parvati (Sati) the equal complementary partner of Shiva.[22][23] He is one of the five equivalent deities in Panchayatana puja of the Smarta tradition of Hinduism.[12]
Shiva is the primal Atman (Self) of the universe.[9][24][25] There are many both benevolent and fearsome depictions of Shiva. In benevolent aspects, he is depicted as an omniscient Yogi who lives an ascetic life on Mount Kailash[1] as well as a householder with wife Parvati and his two children, Ganesha and Kartikeya. In his fierce aspects, he is often depicted slaying demons. Shiva is also known as Adiyogi Shiva, regarded as the patron god of yoga, meditation and arts

So I "destroyed" and savings account and created a life of sailing and discovery,

The name has nothing to do with the Hebrew period of mourning. But I am asked about this occasionally.
=====================================================
Thank you very much, wonderful story.
Perhaps that is why our "boats" are so special for each one of us, each has a story and that has no real monetary value.
Certain cultures the name of a boat much like the American native cultures, the name represents the soul, and that is one reason not to change the name.(there are some rituals and conditions to change names).
Decided not to sell Martha Lei, feel that will be the kiss of death for me.
Too much emotional investment.
The soul of my vessel is both Martha my wife and Lei short for Leilani, believe the first Jewish Argentinian born in Oahu!!!!
Every time go sailing, they are with me.
Truly enjoy and savor the pleasure.
Besides, for some of us, we do not own these vessels, just a temporary "adoption"
take care.

And yes, am also glad of your change of heart.
David
 

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You can always find a broker to llist it for more or try to sell it yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I get a kick out of many boat names I see. Many are clever puns. And of course many are named after wife of GF. I named my dink after my two granddaughters ... Alana whose nickname is Lani and her cousin Daniella whose nick name is Dani. Dink is called the LaniDani. They love it too!

Boat Water Watercraft White Naval architecture
 

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Take the information. It doesn't mean you have to do one thing or another. Personally, knowing you and Shiva pretty well I think you will never sell the boat She is worth more in the true sense - the joy she provides, and the happy days aboard.

But markets are markets and every time a price goes up, the choices for buyers widen and other competitive attractive boats become available. A lot of those are maybe not nicer, or faster, or more comfortable - but they are newer and more saleable.

As your friend I always hoped you'd get $75k. But I think now you can sit back and enjoy the boat.
 
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