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bell ringer
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Discussion Starter #1
Even though I don't think I am going to get to a cost/benefit point I continue to do my homework on consideration of changing from my FLA to LFP. Cost of course is a major consideration and I see posts on other sites of 3.2V cells a lot lower than I have found on a web search.

So this thread is for providing sources for the cells with suppliers, websites, links, etc.

I figure there are already budget people who went down this path and have answers.
 

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bell ringer
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Discussion Starter #2

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Go to that CALB list from the other thread, I already reco' my top picks there, make some calls or emails, post their quotes delivered.

Bring everything back to $ per kWh, or do Ah @12V for apples to apples.

big enough cells ideally no more than two paralleled strings, or put all the paralleling in the "bottom level" grouping for Ah, then series for voltage.

BMS is its own whole thread, just focus on the cells.

Personally I'd only go with cells from sub-par / unknown makers if they were well below 60% of the top-tier pricing, delivered.

Besides CALB, GBS Winston & Sinopoly
 

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Go to that CALB list from the other thread, I already reco' my top picks there, make some calls or emails, post their quotes delivered.

Bring everything back to $ per kWh, or do Ah @12V for apples to apples.

big enough cells ideally sono more than two paralleled strings, or put all the paralleling in the "bottom level" grouping for Ah, then series for voltage.

BMS is its own whole thread, just focus on the cells.

Personally I'd only go with cells from sub-par / unknown makers if they were well below 60% of the top-tier pricing, delivered.

Besides CALB, GBS Winston & Sinopoly
I have built my own portable LifePo battery box system. I struggle to understand a single sentence in your post.
 

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bell ringer
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Discussion Starter #7
a 12V 400AH complete build pack with box and BMS (not a "drop in") for $1900

https://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/12v-400ah-preferred-lifepo4-lithium-battery-pack
I was about to thread drift, Well Ok I will: this "package" is using Perferred Batteries. I don't know what or who that is and maybe the batteries aren't as good as those of other good brand names I don't know either. If they really only only have 90% of stated capacity does that matter to me? It doesn't really as that is still 400 x 0.8 x0.9 = 288AH, which is still more than my current 220AH at 50% FLA.

But this being supplied by The Electric Car Parts Comapany and they are one of the suppliesr who get spoken about as a good seller.

Now back on topic: if you can live with a 6 weeks delivery time that 400AH complete set in an alum box, with BMS, is $1700.
 

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Master Mariner
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a 12V 400AH complete build pack with box and BMS (not a "drop in") for $1900

https://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/12v-400ah-preferred-lifepo4-lithium-battery-pack
I'm confused. This 12V 400AH complete build pack has these ratings:
Rated Capacity: > 204 Ah (typical) at C/3, 73°F (23°C); > 200 Ah (minimum) at C/3, 73°F (23°C)
Operating Voltage: 25.6 V (average) at C/3, 73°F (23°C); Working voltage range is 29.2 ~ 20.8 V
Seriously, am I missing something.
Yeah, I haven't had my coffee yet, so probably.
 

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bell ringer
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Discussion Starter #9
I'm confused. This 12V 400AH complete build pack has these ratings:
Rated Capacity: > 204 Ah (typical) at C/3, 73°F (23°C); > 200 Ah (minimum) at C/3, 73°F (23°C)
Operating Voltage: 25.6 V (average) at C/3, 73°F (23°C); Working voltage range is 29.2 ~ 20.8 V
Seriously, am I missing something.
Yeah, I haven't had my coffee yet, so probably.
Yes I caught that and asked them and it is a problem between their translator and web guy. They sent me the full spec sheet (at 1 am) and I am sure they will get it fixed. The specs are pretty much "standard" for a 12V 400AH LFP
 

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I was about to thread drift, Well Ok I will: this "package" is using Perferred Batteries. I don't know what or who that is and maybe the batteries aren't as good as those of other good brand names I don't know either. If they really only only have 90% of stated capacity does that matter to me?
The issue of 90% **capacity** when new is of zero interest.

The difference might be, cared for properly lasting 8-10,000 cycles, vs only a thousand or less

or mismatched cells forcing you to buy dedicated balancing gear that does so at rates 100 times faster than a normal BMS.

You may not even notice any problem, for years, the seller may be long gone by then.

The name is not relevant here. If you exercise some detective work you will find a dozen or more Ali sellers. Most of them may know nothing about batteries, they just sell them through. The seller may not know who actually assembles the battery, and in fact there may well be several, and it may vary from one month to the next.

In any case very likely not the sort of place you and I would call a "factory".

The maker may also source their chemical slurry from different providers, based on a nickel's worth of profit. Purity and ratios, mixing procedures make a huge difference!

Even the huge well established companies may outsource their chemical sourcing & mixing, the difference being the stringency of their QA processes, actually employing experts rather than just $20/day laborers.

They have a brand worth billions to protect, government agency and military customers with their own QA procedures.
 

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I have built my own portable LifePo battery box system. I struggle to understand a single sentence in your post.
I would be happy to clarify

if you just take it one statement at a time, and indicate where specifically the meaning is not clear.
 

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bell ringer
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Discussion Starter #12
everything about these LFP battery systems appear to be a crapshoot, chosing a long term piece of equipment is only good if ones assumptions work out
 

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Master Mariner
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everything about these LFP battery systems appear to be a crapshoot, chosing a long term piece of equipment is only good if ones assumptions work out
Perhaps MS will become a retailer of a reliable system and instead of a crapshoot, we just pay a bit more.
I wouldn't have any problem with that.
 

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Can't speak for his current thinking, but he has stated he will not be in that consumer level business wrt LFP systems, consulting / advising / selling banks to semi-DIY cost-conscious non-expert prospects.

I'm sure if you know exactly what component you want he can get it for you and he always gives appropriate support for what he sells.

A turn-key Victron, EPS, or OPE-Li3 (Lithionics/Ocean Planet) system is really the way to go if you want a "just pay no worries" LFP setup.

Not to mention when insurance survey time comes around, the ABYC working group has not yet released their standards documentation.
 

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bell ringer
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Discussion Starter #15
Perhaps MS will become a retailer of a reliable system and instead of a crapshoot, we just pay a bit more.
I wouldn't have any problem with that.
Define a "bit" as he already sells them and they are waaaaaay beyond a "bit" in my money world. 125AH is $1649.
 

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Master Mariner
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Define a "bit" as he already sells them and they are waaaaaay beyond a "bit" in my money world. 125AH is $1649.
Frankly, I'm not doing any research now, but just following the threads.
If I had to pay three times more for a reliable system that lasted let's say at least twice as long, with a support system behind it, I'm not at all sure that wouldn't be the best way for me to go, with something I expect to live with on a daily basis for ten years or more.
There's more to me than just up front cost. I have to live with it and maintain it, and if something fails, having a support system is invaluable.
 

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bell ringer
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Discussion Starter #17
a 12V 400AH complete build pack with box and BMS (not a "drop in") for $1900

https://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/12v-400ah-preferred-lifepo4-lithium-battery-pack
I figured out why that is such a good deal. The cells are "pouches" not stand alone plastic units like DIYers are used to. Heck they may even be waht the "drop in" builders are using. But research doesn't seen to say they are bad etc and since in this case the whole thng comes assembled in a box etc it would seem fine to me. It basically now becomes just a preassembled 400AH "replacement"
 

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Both pouches and the hard-shell case enclosed units are often referred to as "prismatics".

I believe the casing is just enclosing those pouch type cells.

A123 is one of the industry's top quality makers of LFP cells, in fact I believe foundational to the industry when the US was still involved. Many say Winston Chung moved the center of gravity to Asia, there is a mess of lawsuits and buyouts with the other leading Chinese firms.

Lithium Werks took over A123's IP and Chinese factories, along with Valence and Super B.

My point is you can still buy A123 20+Ah pouches, just check LiFePO4 you don't want NMC chemistry

and just do a DIY enclosure

and you will have a top-notch bank at relatively low cost.

Just a bit more DIY work than most sailors want to do.
 

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Master Mariner
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I took "complete build pack with box and BMS (not a "drop in")" to mean that you must assemble the battery. It arrives in pieces and the owner assembles the battery. Isn't that why it is $200.00 cheaper?
 

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Engineering the connections between the flimsy tabs at the top of each pouch is so easy, not like wires and bolts.

I bet it arrives as pictured, "built box", you may not even be able to open it to see what's inside without breaking things & voiding warranty.
 
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