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So, still relatively new to the awesome fun of sailing and looking to add a light air/downwind sail to our Jeanneau 44 DS, that my SailNet supporters encouraged me to buy despite having decades of sailing experience. ( Thank you All !)

Anyways, the boat's bowsprit is all set to add a second furler and the manufacturer recommends a furling Code zero. The jib is presently a 106% genoa - stock. I'm not sure if I want to go the code zero route or do a traditional spinnaker or a non furling asymmetric. Frankly, I don't have any experience with any of them, which makes the thought of a furling code zero very attractive.

We sail out of Mystic , CT- so summer winds are a bit light, and the code zero does have some upwind capacity as well. Any thoughts ?

Thanks
 

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Hey,

If it were my boat I would get an asym spinnaker on a furler.

You have enough sail for upwind work. The asym will be good for 80 degrees to 140 or maybe even 150 if the wind is up.

Good luck,
Barry
 

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code 0 is not a downwind sail. it is a way to fly a spinnaker upwind during a light air race on boats that are limited to small jibs because of outboard shrouds . the code 0 lets a racer fly a genoa type sail that is bigger then allowed buy the rules because it is not attached to the forestay it is considered a spinnaker. it can be a 198% sail. A flatter Asym on a furler is your best choice.
 

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If new to sailing with large downwind sails bear in mind that anything needing a pole to fly it adds considerable complication to your experience and therefore is less likely to get used and likely to be less enjoyable when you do. I would start (did start) with an asym tacked to your bowsprit and launched in a sock. This will get you a big boost in performance and likely get you into some trouble (hey, trouble is mostly fun right). Once you're on top of that trouble and bored add the pole into the mix for a more dynamic sail and a lot more lines to play with.

Don't get me wrong I do sail with a poled out spinnaker and enjoy the experience but an asym is a simpler place to start.

*Edit* Or on a furler - don't have any experience with them though toying with the idea of one. the sock worked pretty well.
 

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I second the asym on a furler...while I don't have one (or have experience with one), that is what I would get if purchasing a downwind sail for a bowsprit.
 

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The 44DS has a bowsprit? If you mean the anchor roller assembly, which most use to tack their spinnakers, be sure it is properly anchored for the purpose. Ours requires an additional anchor to the bow.

Anyway, I do find that so many recommend the code 0, but I don't get it. If you want deep light air downwind capability, it's not the most useful. The Code 0's claim to fame is being able to sail further upwind that most downwind sails, and gives up some downwind capability to do it.

Symmetrical spins are the best performing downwind, but exponentially more complicated to fly and to rig than an asymmetrical. Btw, a Code 0 is just a version of asymmetrical spinnaker. They are all cut differently to perform differently.

If the 44 sails anything like the 54, you may find this technique works pretty well. Let's face it, you're not going anyway fast in light downwind air with any sail. Try pulling the main back in and flying just the genoa. If you don't have enough wind to fill it, then furl it in a little bit. I find it works pretty well, unless there is a following sea, which slops the stern around. Generally, if the wind is that light, seas aren't much to contend with. We also have a whisker pole, but don't find it adds substantially to performance. If anything, it makes it a bit easier to fly both the main and genoa. Of course, if the winds pipes up, the genoa is more than sufficient.

In the end, you need to think about how often you would really use a light air DDW sail.
 

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If you are choosing just one sail for light air, I'd go code zero. Everything you are reading here is right, if the goal is to go steeply down wind, you'd be better of with an asymmetrical, in fact you'd be best off with a traditional spinnaker and a pole. With a crew I love to mess with this stuff, but when alone or double handed, I'm often too lazy.

You'll get a greater variety of usable wind angles from a code zero than either of these choices. Deployment is dead nuts simple, pull it out of a bag and run the snake up. On a light air day, we do this on the mooring or dock. After that, no one is required on the foredeck to deploy or furl. In the AM in Vineyard Sound when the wind is light, we'll sail whatever angle it takes to keep going. It's amazing what apparent you can generate with a super light sail close hauled in these conditions. A single handful of knots true wind can generate enough apparent for hull speed.

Ours is designed to work in up to 12kts apparent. After that you get ribbons. Then the 100-110 rolls out and the Code zero rolls in. Still, no one on the foredeck.

Yes, there are days I wish I had an asym. because I'm way off the wind and it's light. But there are more days when I find a way to keep sailing with that code zero, and it couldn't be simpler to use.

But, to be clear about me, I'd rather sail in the wrong direction, than motor in the right direction;)

YMMV.
 

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If the 44 is anything like the 54, once you get to 100 degs or closer to the wind, the main/genny do just fine, even in light air. Well, to a point anyway. I'll say anything over 6kts, albeit, we aren't pushing our 20 ton displacement very fast in 6 kts of breeze.

If you're trying to maximize performance of a 44 ft boat below 6kts on a beam reach, you must be racing.
 

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Most cruising sailors think a code 0 is a downwind sail when it is not. A true Code 0 has a usable range from about 60 true to 90* true. That's it. Above that you should be using a jib. Period.

A lot of cruising sailors ask for a code 0 and actually get a gennaker. Basically a smaller flatter spinnaker, which would be the right sail for the OP. Fly it from the stem fitting or preferably from a short sprit off a furler and you'll be very happy.

A0 - due to them not being attached to the forestay, they need a lot of luff tension to keep their shape. Sometimes this means upgrading the halyard to a 2:1 or adding additional purchase or hydraulics to the backstay to get the required tension. They also are not the easiest sail to trim either. Not what I would recommend for a weekend cruiser.
 

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For a cruising boat Code 0's are generally a terrible idea. There are some out there that can use them to effect, but a code zero is an upwind beating spinnaker that induces a lot of loads on the boat and gear. The halyard has to be incredibly tight, which can bend the mast forward, so you need a lot of backstay to counteract this... The sprit has to absorb a lot of verticle load and so needs to be either very stiff carbon or needs a bob-sta or both. Sheet angles are tight so you need large and very strong turning blocks... The list goes on and on.

A more reasonable sail is something like a genneker. Designed for 75-145 AWA. Loads are lighter, it will sail reasonably deep, and can be put on a furler to reduce crew work.
 

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If you are choosing just one sail for light air, I'd go code zero. Everything you are reading here is right, if the goal is to go steeply down wind, you'd be better of with an asymmetrical, in fact you'd be best off with a traditional spinnaker and a pole. With a crew I love to mess with this stuff, but when alone or double handed, I'm often too lazy.

You'll get a greater variety of usable wind angles from a code zero than either of these choices. Deployment is dead nuts simple, pull it out of a bag and run the snake up. On a light air day, we do this on the mooring or dock. After that, no one is required on the foredeck to deploy or furl. In the AM in Vineyard Sound when the wind is light, we'll sail whatever angle it takes to keep going. It's amazing what apparent you can generate with a super light sail close hauled in these conditions. A single handful of knots true wind can generate enough apparent for hull speed.

Ours is designed to work in up to 12kts apparent. After that you get ribbons. Then the 100-110 rolls out and the Code zero rolls in. Still, no one on the foredeck.

Yes, there are days I wish I had an asym. because I'm way off the wind and it's light. But there are more days when I find a way to keep sailing with that code zero, and it couldn't be simpler to use.

But, to be clear about me, I'd rather sail in the wrong direction, than motor in the right direction;)

YMMV.
As far as day sailing, I'd put the money into an asym rather than code 0. When your sailing downwind, you are just going to feel sooooo much slower on a hot day with light wind while on a reach you still have a nice apparent breeze.
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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So, still relatively new to the awesome fun of sailing and looking to add a light air/downwind sail to our Jeanneau 44 DS, that my SailNet supporters encouraged me to buy despite having decades of sailing experience. ( Thank you All !)

Anyways, the boat's bowsprit is all set to add a second furler and the manufacturer recommends a furling Code zero. The jib is presently a 106% genoa - stock. I'm not sure if I want to go the code zero route or do a traditional spinnaker or a non furling asymmetric. Frankly, I don't have any experience with any of them, which makes the thought of a furling code zero very attractive.

We sail out of Mystic , CT- so summer winds are a bit light, and the code zero does have some upwind capacity as well. Any thoughts ?
I agree with those above that would dissuade you from a Code 0. An asymmetric spinnaker is a much better downwind sail to start with.

I raced for decades before I got to old and creaky for the foredeck.

You are starting with a main and working jib (a #3 in conventional parlance). For light air summers I would add an asymmetric with a sock (not a furler) - think about stowage and deployment. My sail locker is under the v-berth so everything goes in and out through a big hatch. You can do a lot over the deck, especially if you rig things at the dock.

In my opinion your next sail should be a 135(ish). You can have one built with light fabric (a #2 sail with #1 fabric) so you can keep it full in light air without having so much material to move around. I keep my #3 on the furler in winter and offshore, and my #2 on in summer.

Find someone with a 30 or 35 foot boat you can race with once in a while. Make sure they race spinnaker. You'll learn a lot, a faster. One of two things will happen: either you'll fall in love with spinnakers and get a second really light symmetric chute, or realize it is all too much work and stay with what you have.

My sail suite: a heavy cruising main with three deep reefs, a heavy working (#3) jib, a very light (#2) genoa, a 1.5 oz assymetric, a .75 oz symmetric, and a hank-on staysail with one reef.

Here's an article by a sailmaker that alines with my experience with all 3 sail types

Downwind Sails for Cruising | Sail Magazine
The "collar or strap" (like an ATN Tacker) described in the article as required is bad advise. In fact, with the tack line run aft you can get windward rotation of an asym and increase projected area.
 

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Hey,

That was a good article, but it was written in 2008. Since then the major development has been in furlers for asymmetric spinnakers. I think it's easier to use a furling spinnaker than a spinnaker / sock combo.

Assuming the boat has a bowsprit or a good place forward of the headstay to attach the tack of a furling unit, a furling spinnaker would be the way to go.

Barry


rocdoc,

Here's an article by a sailmaker that alines with my experience with all 3 sail types

Downwind Sails for Cruising | Sail Magazine
 

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Hey,

That was a good article, but it was written in 2008. Since then the major development has been in furlers for asymmetric spinnakers. I think it's easier to use a furling spinnaker than a spinnaker / sock combo.

Assuming the boat has a bowsprit or a good place forward of the headstay to attach the tack of a furling unit, a furling spinnaker would be the way to go.

Barry

Barry,

2008 when you get to be my age is like yesterday:)

Hey, I've had symmetrical spinnakers I've deployed from a bag using a pole, asym that I deployed from a sock, and code zero's on a furler. Never had a asym. on a furler. I'd like to hear about experiences with these, can always use another sail:D
 

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I don't agree, but why do you think so?
Everything I have seen, they are immensely easier to deploy (especially if we are talking light air). You pull the spin bag out, like normal, and hook up the halyard to the furler head, hook the tack to the sprit, hoist tight, then run your furling lines. Done. Your sheets are already attached. Leave up for the day/weekend, then furl and take down in the bag and your done. More work than a traditional spinnaker.

- Ronnie...on the geaux
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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Everything I have seen, they are immensely easier to deploy (especially if we are talking light air). You pull the spin bag out, like normal, and hook up the halyard to the furler head, hook the tack to the sprit, hoist tight, then run your furling lines. Done. Your sheets are already attached. Leave up for the day/weekend, then furl and take down in the bag and your done. More work than a traditional spinnaker.
Thus my question.

I have lots and lots of experience with asym and sym spinnakers the old fashioned way. I have a good bit of experience with spinnakers with socks and furlers, and Code 0 with furlers.

I'm not impressed with the furlers. Lots of extra rigging and potential points of failure for no real benefit, in my opinion.
 

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Thus my question.

I have lots and lots of experience with asym and sym spinnakers the old fashioned way. I have a good bit of experience with spinnakers with socks and furlers, and Code 0 with furlers.

I'm not impressed with the furlers. Lots of extra rigging and potential points of failure for no real benefit, in my opinion.


My question is maybe the same or at least related. The Code 0 at least for me works great on the removable furler, but it's not as fat bellied as an asym. What I'm wondering about is when you put a big bellied spinnaker on a furler, does it still work, how do they avoid it getting all bagged up in the middle (do they do something like add some padding to the middle like on a furling genoa?). And what about this top rollers, do they solve this problem and work? Any experienced users out there?
 

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Hi Guys,

I don't have lots and lots of experience with free flying sails and furlers, but I do have some.

I used to race on a c&c 34 that the owner spent lots of $ on. That boat had lots of sails, top notch gear, etc. He had light and heavy spinnaker, plus and asym for reaching. He had that sail modified to work with a furling unit (swivel at the top, drum at the bottom, torsion line to furl around). The furling unit didn't work very well on that boat because the tack was right on front of the headstay and when the sail was unfurled or furled the top of the sail would hit the headstay foil. Plus, when racing we always had a full crew so there were plenty of people to hoist and douse the spinnaker.

There are now a bunch of boats racing in my fleet that do use furling spinnakers. They all have bowsprits, so there is plenty of room for the spinnaker to furl without hitting the forestay. Note that these sails are only used when running (or reaching in light air). the sail comes on deck, hoisted (furled), unfurled, flown, then furled and dropped at the lower mark. It does take some time to rig the sail and run the furling line, but not very long. Anyway, those guys all seem very happy with the furling units. They mostly sail short handed, so I'm sure the furlers are a big benefit.

When I had my Newport 28 I used to fly and assym with a sock. It was easy to do and a lot of fun. I really don't know which is better - furling assym or assym in a sock. I that that if I had a bowsprit I would go furling because it does seem easier than dealing with the whole sock thing.

Barry
 
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