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Living aboard advice

4K views 23 replies 14 participants last post by  mbianka 
#1 ·
Hello everyone
We are a couple looking for close a chapter and open a new one. During this year living on shore have been really bad and it make us think even more about getting a sailing boat. So the question for those who actually live on a boat, is this a good option ? Obviously I assume that it depends in which area is the boat but even though please share your experience. We are planing to do charter in Croatia and Greece for few month and if the sailing is good probably buy a low budget boat after winter. Thanks
 
#2 ·
We don't live aboard full time, but spend well more than half the season aboard. We just stepped off, after a month aboard and will be back in a few days for another two weeks.

We try not to sit in the marina, unless we are just working remotely. Even then, with good cell service and a hot spot, we will often choose to do so at anchor. Living aboard is more of a lifestyle than an alternative to dirt living. It requires a different mindset and appreciation for the sport, the outdoors, the water, etc. There are some sacrifices too. Personally, I can't relate to those that are full time live aboards, but never leave the marina.

It's said one can live on their sailboat, but you can't sail your house. We find the boat serves many more purposes than land. It's a greater attraction for family and friends to visit and stay a bit. It allows us to be more active, particularly doing something we both enjoy together. It also has downsides. Fridge space, water supplies, power, storage, holding tank limits and pumping out sewage, all take significantly more focus and planning. I believe those that can't effectively downsize to live aboard, eventually junk up the boat to the point that it's too cumbersome to secure everything to go sailing.

Of course, there is way more to it, so hope these thoughts helped. Ask any questions, there are many full time liveaboards here. Final thought, if you are going to live aboard, chose a boat that is most comfortable to live aboard (how about a hot water shower?). How fast or suited to certain types of sailing is secondary (though not irrelvent).
 
#3 ·
Minnewaska points out a lot of issues. The thing is many of those items are not issues for us, but other things are. My Wife is well adapted to the small space but chronically feels insecure. And then there are relationship issues, our marriage counselor says we bring “couples intimacy” to extreme sport levels. Yes, we are 67 and 69 and talk to a marriage counselor, it’s an adaptation to living this intimately, we need to spout off in a safe space.

Whatever living aboard is for us will be different for you and your family. I don’t think there is any way to truly know without doing it. Things will come up that you never imagined, things you imagined will be no problem. So I would recommend leaving some path back until you are confident it’s for your family.

It’s a couples experience and it can be very rewarding. For the right couples.
 
#6 ·
It is what it is and most likely will not be what you thought it would be.
Lots of times when people learn I live on a sailboat they go "That sounds nice.". I normally respond with "Yes when it's nice it is really nice. But when it sucks it REALLY SUCKS!" But of course I am still doing it and I think it all depends on the "why" of doing it.


BTW - please don't do it because you think it will be a cheap way to live. That wouldn't probably work out for you.
 
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#7 ·
BTW - please don't do it because you think it will be a cheap way to live. That wouldn't probably work out for you.
For sure!

We rationalize that it is much cheaper than owning a waterfront second home on the Bay in RI. However, that's just silly expensive. The only cheap live aboards are the neglected ones allowed to get into non-seaworthy condition, which become highly controversial at the marina. Many marinas have been disallowing liveaboard for this an other reasons.

Which raises another important point. Be sure you know where you'll live aboard and understand that marina, even anchorage rules can change. Ours, for example, permits living aboard over the summer, not the winter.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I have lived aboard since 1969. It has its ups and downs. Sailing is by far the easiest part of boat owning and living aboard. The maintenance and repairs are the big deal, unless you have plenty of money to pay professionals to do that work for you.
As for chartering, I don't know how much sailing experience you have, but the biggest thing to remember, other than you are bringing complete strangers into your home with all their quirks and foibles, is that there are no weather windows when you charter. It doesn't matter if it is flat calm or blowing 50 knots, you must stick your nose out into it and go where you have to. You have a schedule to keep and that's very hard on you, your guests and the boat, at times.
Good luck.
 
#10 ·
I haven't lived aboard since 1969.
I think there is a typo. Should it say you have?

As for chartering, I don't know how much sailing experience you have, but the biggest thing to remember, other than you are bringing complete strangers into your home with all their quirks and foibles
We have bareboated with several other couples over the years. Overall, we enjoyed them all. Some never sailed a day in their lives, others owned their own boats. Quirks and foibles, for sure. I've found, after a day or two, everyone let's their guard down a bit and learns to live well together. No choice really. :)
 
#9 ·
We lived aboard for a year. We lived on the hook for half of it mostly alone and spent the winter tied up to a dock with power, water and wifi and a city to explore. But we spent most days in the Library working or walking and exploring. One can go a bit stir crazy cooped up (especially in latitudes where you have short days). But I would (and hopefully will) do it again as soon as life allows it. There is a lot of freedom being away from it all, especially if you like your cruising grounds. And a lot of stress because you might not be able to find the ready solutions you are used to to the problems that crop up.

Some interesting things that you might miss: wardrobes, (shoe selection was a big deal especially for the docked months), kitchen toys, tools (big ones like table saws etc.), the ability to spread out and work on projects, books (if you are a bibliophile), an address to get deliveries, etc. ...

I second the comments about relationships. The stresses of living aboard are different and so the triggers and mechanisms to deal wit them are also different—and they're either new or non-existent. Patience with your partners "new" foibles is surprisingly hard maintain; and vice-versa.
 
#12 ·
How can you give or take advice without a saltmine handy?

I got into sailing in mid life...38 yrs old. It seemed like a fabulous thing to do and learn and offered the possibility to literally go anywhere "on my own". That appealed to me so I set out to learn.... and boy is there a lot to learn. I never changed a spark plug in my life... but I am mechanical and was a very skilled woodworker in my 20s and 30s... and had a complete woodworking facility. I had no boating experience so it was all uncharted territory. But I was dedicated and a pretty fast learner.

After about 5 years of learning and upgrading a new boat and fitting it out for "anything" I came to a time in my life where it was sh*t or get of the pot. I got a divorce, no kids, both parents had passed away... a recession/downturn dried up work... so I decided to go sabbatical of undetermined length of time.

I gave away all my possessions save what I could fit and needed aboard, got some crew and took off in the Fall for the Caribbean. My only ocean work was the Marion Bermuda race in '91... but I had sailed a helluva lot in those first 6 years. I loved spending time on the boat. I did not dread projects but rather like making the upgrades and they were all learning labs for me.

After a couple of weeks I found myself essentially alone on board in English Harbour, crew having returned north. I spent the next 4 years living on board in the Caribe, in Southern NE, some deliveries including on from NY to Brazil! and a stint of 5 or 6 months living on a GF's Swedish boat and cruising it around the Canaries.

But after all this time living aboard with nothing to plan for / live for but the next horizon.... the coming weather... and the next boat project.... I began to miss many things from "dirt" and the big city I came from - NYC. I was actually bored. But I do love being aboard, sailing, doing projects... but I also like concerts, theater, seeing ballet and museums... dining out... whatever that was not happening in paradise.

I sailed back to NYC almost sold the boat but got married and decided the boat would be a weekend home, and a vacation. We cruised LIS and Southern NE up to ME and love it.... but it's not full time. I am totally OK at this point with this boat sailing as we / I do. We talk about retiring to live on the boat... but I don't think that makes sense for many reasons... the main one being little and growing grand children and a sister who I am guardian of until she passes. We aren't going far and aren't going to be gone for very long.

Circumstances inform decisions.
 
#13 ·
One thing that stood out for me in your original post is that you posed this choice more as a negative reaction to a bad year on land, rather than a positive choice about living aboard. That doesn't feel like a good starting point to me.

Whether living aboard is right for you will depend on a lot of factors.

Are you planning to work or are you retired?
What kind of space do you need to live happily with two people aboard?
Do you want to stay in one place or move around?
How important is it for you to be near friends and family?
What are your shore side transportation and storage needs if any?
What kind of health care access do you need?
What kind of exercise do you need to stay healthy?
Do you have the skills or mechanical ability to repair and maintain a boat?
Can you afford to maintain your boat?
Do you have time and patience to deal with the added complexity of everything from grocery shopping to laundry to personal hygiene concerns?

My choice to live aboard was based on financial, recreational and environmental concerns. I paid a little more and bought a very well maintained boat that has a comfortable living space. This allows me to live a short bike ride away from work and pay about 1/3 of the cost of a decent apartment here in the East Bay. My carbon footprint is minimal both due to the short muscle powered commute and the fact that I use much less energy aboard than I would if I lived in an apartment and I now can go sailing whenever I want. Going kayaking from my slip is much easier than it used to be from an apartment. Since I work pretty long days and usually go rock climbing or mountain biking on weekends I don't spend enough time aboard for space limitations to bother me. Staying in place, I have easy access to health care, recreation and friends as well as a storage locker to keep my bikes, climbing gear, tools etc.. Having a permanent spot in a marina means that I can easily travel without having to worry about the security of my boat and it is (well, was) nice to have access to a major airport. I have been sailing all my life, and have good mechanical skills, so I am comfortable maintaining and repairing my home. The money I save from living aboard means there is no shortage for maintenance. Because I commute to work most days I have easy access to groceries, hardware stores, laundry etc. and can shower at work or at the gym (pre-pandemic) Work also gives me access to high speed internet, which is not available in my marina. I mostly use shore side facilities, but I have easy access to a pumpout station and there is a mobile pumpout service available in the marina, so dealing with waste is an infrequent and minor issue for me.

If you were describing your life aboard in response to the questions I posed above, what would your answer look like?

In closing, please reconsider the idea of buying a "low budget boat." There is no such thing. Nothing a previous owner spends to fix up a boat will increase the price more than it will cost you to fix it yourself. For example, a boat with a recently replaced engine will cost less than an equivalent vessel that needs a repower after you add in the cost of the new engine and installation.
 
#14 ·
Have lived aboard with Xmas breaks and sailing home most years to live half time in our house during the summers. Full time on the boat spring winter and fall. The house is a big deal. Wife said “you can do whatever you want and I’ll come but I want a house to come back too”. That gave us a land based legal address. Sounds like a small thing but solves a lot of headaches. Also allows breaks to see family. Catch your breath and not be unidimensional. There’s as many ways to live aboard as there are brands of boats. They are more divergent than you can imagine. We had more in common with folks using their boats intensely during sailing season than charter folks or racers. We had less in common with people using their boat as a residence and commuting to work from the same mooring or slip.
Our goal was to never see freezing rain and to wander. We had no aversion to doing two 1500-2000nm passages twice a year and in fact looked forward to the challenge. We very much being as self sufficient as possible and living off the grid away from the tourist traps or charter circuits. We found a excellent group of like minded cruisers who were great fun to buddy boat with or run into as we wandered around. Got a true sense of community as we helped each other in so many ways as our prior skill sets were different and our knowledge was shared. Great fun to run into a couple when you hadn’t seen them for awhile.They are now friends for life
maintenance is maintenance. Upside Is it feels so good when your boat is Bristol fashion and everything works. Other upside is you can’t help but learn new understandings and skills. Nothing is as good as messing around in boats. You gain knowledge in the most unexpected ways and from the most unexpected people. Your precruising biases fall away and you more truly see the good in people of all backgrounds. Also you must change your attitude toward the world to survive. Must think whatever don’t kill me makes me stronger. Must be cheerful and enjoy a challenge.
interpersonal relationships need be approached more like soldiers together in a firefight. You are dependent on each other in a way you don’t see when living on land. Kindness and concern at all times. There’s no room for being pissy or egocentric about anything.
We’ve been doing it for 7 years now. Its been a great 7 years. So thankful I could do it and my bride was so supportive throughout. As we move on she says she will also miss it. Although I thought nothing could make our marriage stronger but cruising together has. I think the above comments don’t reflect that for many cruising couples that’s true as well. The past predicts the future and you most definitely take your troubles with you. Being a liveaboard solves no interpersonal issues.
We plan to continue to cruise but in a different fashion. On an ocean rated trawler. Now the breaks will be months not a week here and there. Being less draft restricted and able to escape weather in a pilot house the cruising grounds different as well. Still don’t like slips and do like quiet. In the last 7 years only came in to a slip for maintenance or to leave the boat and get on an airplane. Think that attitude will continue.
 
#15 ·
Have lived aboard with Xmas breaks and sailing home most years to live half time in our house during the summers. Full time on the boat spring winter and fall. The house is a big deal. Wife said "you can do whatever you want and I'll come but I want a house to come back too". That gave us a land based legal address. Sounds like a small thing but solves a lot of headaches. Also allows breaks to see family. Catch your breath and not be unidimensional. There's as many ways to live aboard as there are brands of boats. They are more divergent than you can imagine. We had more in common with folks using their boats intensely during sailing season than charter folks or racers. We had less in common with people using their boat as a residence and commuting to work from the same mooring or slip.
Our goal was to never see freezing rain and to wander. We had no aversion to doing two 1500-2000nm passages twice a year and in fact looked forward to the challenge. We very much being as self sufficient as possible and living off the grid away from the tourist traps or charter circuits. We found a excellent group of like minded cruisers who were great fun to buddy boat with or run into as we wandered around. Got a true sense of community as we helped each other in so many ways as our prior skill sets were different and our knowledge was shared. Great fun to run into a couple when you hadn't seen them for awhile.They are now friends for life
maintenance is maintenance. Upside Is it feels so good when your boat is Bristol fashion and everything works. Other upside is you can't help but learn new understandings and skills. Nothing is as good as messing around in boats. You gain knowledge in the most unexpected ways and from the most unexpected people. Your precruising biases fall away and you more truly see the good in people of all backgrounds. Also you must change your attitude toward the world to survive. Must think whatever don't kill me makes me stronger. Must be cheerful and enjoy a challenge.
interpersonal relationships need be approached more like soldiers together in a firefight. You are dependent on each other in a way you don't see when living on land. Kindness and concern at all times. There's no room for being pissy or egocentric about anything.
We've been doing it for 7 years now. Its been a great 7 years. So thankful I could do it and my bride was so supportive throughout. As we move on she says she will also miss it. Although I thought nothing could make our marriage stronger but cruising together has. I think the above comments don't reflect that for many cruising couples that's true as well. The past predicts the future and you most definitely take your troubles with you. Being a liveaboard solves no interpersonal issues.
We plan to continue to cruise but in a different fashion. On an ocean rated trawler. Now the breaks will be months not a week here and there. Being less draft restricted and able to escape weather in a pilot house the cruising grounds different as well. Still don't like slips and do like quiet. In the last 7 years only came in to a slip for maintenance or to leave the boat and get on an airplane. Think that attitude will continue.
One thing Out mentions which is often not included in "get away" plans... is to maintain your land residence. I think this is an excellent point and has many advantages and the downside may be the cost of maintaining a residence which is not used. I suppose it could be rented when you're away... but getting the rental to align with when you are away is the hurdle. A family member house or apartment sitting is also a possibility. But maintaining your land based residence is spendy. But it does allow a punctuated experience. This was not something I could afford when I sailed away. I wonder how many can? I suppose one could move to a small "cabin" which offers most of the advantages at a lower cost. It also allows you to unload lots of possessions and just keep important things... and somewhere to leave your vehicle.

Out's advice about becoming socially engaged with the sailing community of live aboards is never a bad thing. You can't have too many true friends and especially one who are on a similar trajectory. We all know that lots of projects are immeasurably easier when you have another person to assist.

And since you are not "stuck" in one place you can up anchor and set up shop in another environment...everything new except the boat... keep in touch by radio/phone and rendezvous when it makes sense.

Thanks Out for this post!
 
#16 ·
My wife and I are having the discussion right now about whether we keep a land based home, when we cruise away in retirement. Still a few years off. Ultimately, we prefer a condo, which allows more flexibility to travel, in our view. I have zero intent to ever mow a lawn or have to manage anyone mowing the lawn ever again. We’re on the bubble of some waterfront condos, with their own marinas. Maybe.

Getting home and pulling right up to the front door has real appeal to me. Boat essentially in the front yard to do maintenance or refit work, then head out again the next season. She likes the concept, but thinks as long as we set the money aside, we should wait to buy, until we get back. Not clear which makes more sense, but having a firm plan to have a dirt dwelling is a given. Virtually everyone eventually returns to the dirt. Price changes can be an issue and I’m not a fan of timing markets. The idea of owning and not knowing exactly when we’ll return from the first retirement cruise is complicated. No doubt we could get some part time house sitters, especially family that may want to vacation.

Jury is still out.
 
#17 ·
My wife and I are having the discussion right now about whether we keep a land based home, when we cruise away in retirement. Still a few years off. Ultimately, we prefer a condo, which allows more flexibility to travel, in our view. I have zero intent to ever mow a lawn or have to manage anyone mowing the lawn ever again. We're on the bubble of some waterfront condos, with their own marinas. Maybe.

Getting home and pulling right up to the front door has real appeal to me. Boat essentially in the front yard to do maintenance or refit work, then head out again the next season. She likes the concept, but thinks as long as we set the money aside, we should wait to buy, until we get back. Not clear which makes more sense, but having a firm plan to have a dirt dwelling is a given. Virtually everyone eventually returns to the dirt. Price changes can be an issue and I'm not a fan of timing markets. The idea of owning and not knowing exactly when we'll return from the first retirement cruise is complicated. No doubt we could get some part time house sitters, especially family that may want to vacation.

Jury is still out.
Marina condos are for people who have not really left the grid... I hear you on maintenance of a house... a main reason I never wanted to own one. As a teen I did enough chores to rid me of the idea of home ownership... and I design them!. Maybe a small house in the Vermont or Maine woods or the Catskills of Berkshires... if they exist. These are easy to rent out seasonally and can be low maintenance and even off the grid. Also with a marina condo you really never escape the boat... and that could be something you may want to do... avoid the ever present reminder of boat work. The cottage in the woods is the compliment to cruising away off the grid.
 
#18 ·
We lived aboard for several years. For most of it I was working full time, so we went with slips in Toronto and Niagara. The community was fantastic, closer than any community we have experienced on land.

It was a really inexpensive way to live too. I went from paying $1700/month for a one bedroom apartment to ~$400 a month for a premium down town slip on a boat with 2 bedrooms. We were able to save enough money to eventually buy a house, so that was nice perk.

Things started getting tricky when my son was born. Brought him home from the hospital to boat, lifting him at ~24 hrs from dock to boat then up and down companion way in car seat was less than awesome.

Canadian winters were hard. We had days where we were maxing out our 60 amps of shore power on heat and bubblers and still couldn't get the boat interior above 12-14 celcius for days on end.

Snow Freezing Water Winter Ice
 
#19 ·
Thanks everyone to take the time to share your experiences.
Let me try to explain my situation and the reason to get into sailing.
I've been triying to have the sailing experience since I was 30. Familiy, kids, etc stopped me (I stopped myself). Now I'm 50 and my son and daughter are independent so I think is the right moment.
On the other hand, this year my life kinda turn upside down with this worldwide casedemic. I don't know you guys, but I don't want to get trap on a quarantine concentration camp or to be forced to get a poisoned vaccine. Before this, I was dreaming about sailing freely from port to port, ,,, now I'm not sure about that would be possible. Every country is taking draconian/dictatorial meassure against citizens and traveling from country to country I think is not going to be like it was.
I did my dayskipper few years ago in UK, unfortunately I didn't continue sailing so I forgot pretty much everything, so I need to refresh it.
My plan is during the next Oct/Nov to get a charter with a good skipper for few weeks, or as many weeks need it to get a decent understanding of sailing (like a private lesson), then I'll start to search for a sailing boat. I am in Italy right now but I think we will expend the winter in Greece and during that time I'll be checking on possible boats to buy.

Choosing the right boat isn't easy at all. We want to get a blue water cruiser, we want to do mediterranean and caribe if we can. Too many options and very little knowledge from our side to decide the right one. So I though that it could be an option to pay somebody to help us to choose the boat. First we though about getting a 20K eur boat, just to learn and see if we like it but I know that if we like to sail we will want to get a bigger and better boat and selling the boat is going to be a pain for sure, so maybe is better to buy a boat that has the right specs.. I see 40-50K boat that looks good. Obviously I'll get a survey on the boat before buying..
So going back to the begining my concern is with the situation that we are facing in every country and expecting to continue like this with more lockdowns, do you guys think that life will be harder living in a boat than living in a country house?

My reply to chicory83
Are you planning to work or are you retired?
I am not planing to work, just try to make enough money with my investments
What kind of space do you need to live happily with two people aboard?
after checking on many boats, around 40' seems to be the right one
Do you want to stay in one place or move around?
We want to move around, from continent to continent.
How important is it for you to be near friends and family?
at this time we are not conditioned for that
What are your shore side transportation and storage needs if any?
we want to travel as light as possible, so I'll be selling or giving away everything
What kind of health care access do you need?
Fortunately we still ok, but we probably will need to get some kind of insurance at some point
What kind of exercise do you need to stay healthy?
We like to do crossfit, montainbike, ... is going to be hard if we are sailing!
Do you have the skills or mechanical ability to repair and maintain a boat?
I can consider myself handyman so I am good with tools, electrics, etc
Can you afford to maintain your boat?
If we are talking about light repairs, TLC, probably with a little info I'll probably be able to do it myself. If we are talking about big jobs probably I'm not capable to do it. At this time I do have some money to fix some mayor dissaster.
Do you have time and patience to deal with the added complexity of everything from grocery shopping to laundry to personal hygiene concerns?
Sure, we can do that
 
#20 ·
My thoughts.
Your plan is basically OK... you will of course evolve the plan as your execute it... but if you are determined to you get there.
Hard to say what your 40'+ boat will cost. I would advise to spend a lot of time looking at listings and visiting as many for sale boats as you can. This will eventually get you wiser and closer in your thinking not only to the boat you want, but the boat you can afford and manage.
Most time is spent NOT sailing and this makes comfort and accommodations even more important. As sailing time is a small fraction we can tolerate some level of discomfort. But a lot of time at anchor is spent in the cockpit so you'll want a boat with a comfortable comfort to "hang out" in.
Check out Robert Perry's Fan Club Facebook page. Not only is Bob a fabulous naval architect, but he is an approachable, genuine nice guy. Some excellent discussions there as he is designing a new boat for a new client... tagged FC37 (fan club??) because members are weighing in on features and their experience. This is a fabulous page/group and highly recommend it.
As far as specific boats and features.... although I have 35 years of experience including living aboard and multiple ocean passages... it's almost all been aboard my first and only boat - Contest 36s. I am a big fan of this design because of my experience but can't really speak from experience about the many fine and not so fine boats out there.

Good luck!
 
#23 ·
If I was simply looking to “live aboard”, I’d buy one of those Holiday Houseboats or a 35’+ cabin cruiser with a large aft deck for deck chairs and a table. I bought a sailboat so I could sail places. Living in a marina on a sailboat has MANY downsides that you would not have on a houseboat. Unless of course we’re talking about a large, 50’+ sailboat but even then there would be compromises. Ideally if I lived in a marina full time I’d have a 35’ houseboat, then next to it a J24 sailboat and next to that, my 13’ Boston Whaler. Would make for comfortable living with plenty to do for fun. Having been trapped in a marina since May due to the Pandemic, the shortcomings of living in a marina on a cruising boat are immense. All the things that make her safe and comfortable offshore and at anchor become hindrances at a dock long term. Not to mention crazy bottom growth from not moving, having to have HVAC in the companionway due to no airflow, the weekenders who “come to party” and all the other little things that come with what is essentially living in an expensive trailer park. If you’re used to open water and serene anchorages, it’s quite a shock. On the flip side you meet lots of cool people, a few eccentric ones, and make long term friends. Also don’t discount the extra work such as constant prepping and fear from Tropical systems. (So far, Christobal, Hanna and a VERY close call from Laura).....being mobile means you’re not in the way of these storms. The boat projects you inevitably get into when tied to a slip means you kinda are. Just some things to think about. Minnie is spot on when he says “it’s more of a lifestyle”. You either love it and all that comes with it or you end up miserable. Been aboard for a few years now and I couldn’t even imagine doing anything else. Though in truth I can’t wait for Hurricane Season to be over; finish this minor refit and GTHO of here and back to traveling again. Pushing four months of 16 hour refit days and it’s becoming like a self inflicted prison. Lol. November can’t come soon enough. Good luck in your endeavors. All the best. AA
 
#24 ·
Recommend you read this Robert Pirsig Essay before you decide to take the plunge. Don't be taken by the lifestyle presented by the You Tubers. There are serious compromises and challenges and you have to be prepared for them:
 
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