[steveg353]

Well, 2009 is starting off sort of rough for my wife and I and our boat. We have a 1982 34 ODay with an M30 Universal engine. While returning to the slip under power on New years day, we lost the engine. The oil sending unit was attached by a 4" brass pipe nipple that sheared off and dumped all of the oil in a matter of seconds. We have not owned this boat very long and one of my upgrades was going to be a low oil pressure horn but I had not done it yet.
After cleaning out all the old threads and installing a stainless steel nipple with the sending unit, and filling her up with oil....we started the engine. It ran fine for about three minutes.....I thought all was right with the world....and then...bam. The engine made a frightful sound as it grinded to a stop.....it was seized. We suspect a rod bearing failure. My stomach churned.

The boat is in Port Aransas TX.
I am looking for advice on the options I should consider....

 

[AllThumbs]

Uhg. Sorry man. Don't know what to tell you. If you are handy rip her out and get some quotes to rebuild it. If you are even handier, take it apart, buy a new rod and have the crank ground. If you are not too handy, check around for a rebuilt engine.

I know of two folks who have just given up on thier inboards and mounted an outboard. I really hate this fix but if it's the only way to get out sailing then it's the least expensive option.

Eric

 

[Rockter]

steve :

It sounds like a bottom end failure. You must have torn something up when running with no oil after the line rupture. The problem is that you cannot tell for how long you were running with no oil, and something must have torn up. It could be bores, but I don't think so. A troubled bottom end is a pronounced knocking-rattle. My one experience with siezure was that it sounded like a loud whine, and slowing rapidly.

If it is the bores, it may be economical to fix.

The other problem is that there is likely to be more scoring on the other bearing surfaces within the motor..... in the bottom end, and possibly the bores also.
Plain-bearing cranks do not tolerate a lube failure for long. Roller bearing cranks... rare.... are more tolerant of it.

It does not look good there Steve. It looks like a re-con motor is needed, and your existing motor may be beyond economical repair.

For all the effort it takes, I would take the motor out and strip it myself. It costs very little to strip the motor if you do it yourself. Then if you find it in bad shape, you will not have paid someone to tell you, and you can trust your own eyes. You might get lucky there Steve. It may not be too bad.

Rockter.

 

[bljones]

I may get burned at the stake for saying this, but engine repair/ rebuilds, especially bottom end work, is not rocket science. In fact, IMO, after you get the engine out and torn down, i'd much rather recon a crank and install bearings than R and R the top end or the fuel injection system. Of course, the hard part is getting the engine out. once you do, the rest is straightforward for anyone with a basic understanding of automotive engine fundamentals. It does sound like you likely spun a bearing, (best case) or (worst case), broke the crank. Time to pull it apart and find the truth.

If you have the time, the tools, and the ability and inclination to learn, at least get the engine out and torn down yourself. After all, at this point, what have you got to lose? Besides, I could use another good multi-installment project thread to get through winter withdrawal.

 

[Leither]

Yergh! What a horrible start to the year. Sorry for your loss, man. I agree with BlJones. Rebuilding an engine is more a matter of being systematic and careful than anything else, so if you feel you could manage it, I would go for it. You will certainly save a lot of cash in the process....

Stuart

 

[JimsCAL]

Whether you go for a rebuild or a new engine, the old one has to come out. If you can the removal yourself, you are going to save money. At that point dropping the pan to look at the bottom end is pretty easy. As noted previously, that will help you decide how to proceed.

 

[mdbee]

It Depends

It depends on how mechanically minded you are and how much money you have to spend.

In my line of work I see many people try to work on engines themselves, mostly to save money. Some do a pretty good job, some do a marginal job (unreliable) and some end up costing them more because someone has to go back and do the job right.

Most people can tear an engine apart, not everyone can put it back together RIGHT. Fewer know what to look for in a particular engine. A good mechanic has some knowledge of the type of engine he is working on. While they are in it, they look for other things that may need attention etc.

That is how it should work. The reality is you usually don't know much about the mechanic without several good referals. I got stung this year because I decided to let a franchise dealer work on my outboard. Even though he has been in the business over 20 years, I had to go back and redo the whole repair and even fix some screw ups he made. I am "mechanically minded" and have owned a related type of business for over 30 years. I thought I would let an "expert" do it.

 

[Rockter]

Yes, take it apart and look.
At least turn it upside down, take the sump cover off, and have a look at the bottom end. If something has let go, you will see it readily.

 

[steveg353]

Well, I have decided that I am capable of removing the engine myself (with help from fellow sailors at our marina). I am also comfortable with partial disassembly and inspection but I am not comfortable with my ability to rebuild myself.
A couple questions on removal:

1.Can I safely use my boom, ratchet strap and/or halyard to lift a 400lbs engine or is that out of the question?
2.Should I leave the gearbox attached to the engine and disconnect from the prop shaft or should I disconnect the gearbox from the back of the engine?
3.What other items should I be aware of besides the obvious disconnections?

 

[Rockter]

If the weight is manageable, leave the gearbox on it.
400 lbf is a lot for a boom.
I bribed a crane driver driver at the docks to lift my very heavy Volvo out of the boat, at close to 780 lbf.
.

 

[r.furborough]

The Universal M30 is base on the Kubota D-1101. Westerbeke/Universal usually removed identifying marks from the engine when marinizing. I suggest you contact a local Kubota tractor dealer a see if you can get parts through them, it will be significantly cheaper than going to Westerbeke/Universal. They will normally need the serial number off the engine before they can look up parts. PM if you need more information.

 

[bubb2]

I would build a crutch or brace for that boom if you are planing to use it to pull the engine.

 

[r.furborough]

Here is a link to Kubota's engine website that shows where the serial numbers are on their engines
Kubota Engine America - Compact Diesel Engines

 

[Leither]

Well, I have decided that I am capable of removing the engine myself (with help from fellow sailors at our marina). I am also comfortable with partial disassembly and inspection but I am not comfortable with my ability to rebuild myself.
A couple questions on removal:

1.Can I safely use my boom, ratchet strap and/or halyard to lift a 400lbs engine or is that out of the question?
2.Should I leave the gearbox attached to the engine and disconnect from the prop shaft or should I disconnect the gearbox from the back of the engine?
3.What other items should I be aware of besides the obvious disconnections?

400lb sounds heavy for the boom, unless you support it in a couple of places with wooden crutches. If you are going to use the boom, then I would remove the gearbox before the lift just to save weight. I would be easier if you could bribe a crane driver (as per Rockter's post).

Once the engine is out, then dismantling is normally fairly straightforward, as long as you are systematic and logical about it.... Having the workshop manual does help, of course!

Stuart

 

[captainjay]

You can easily brace the boom by using the Halyard or the topping lift or both. We just put a 440 pound Yanmar Engine in 45 foot hunter this past week using this very method. Just tie a boland around the boom at the point were the come along will be attachted. Lift the boom up with the halyard. We actually picked then engine up off of the dock with the boom, swung it into the cockpit, then put it down in the cockpit repositioned the come along and lowered the engine down the companionway. This was brand new 75 HP Yanmar with the transmision attatched. We did use two come alongs to balance the weight going down the companionway.
Jay

 

[steveg353]

R.F. Thanks for the info. I have located a Kubota service center near Houston where we live. I may have them do the rebuild. If I am going to haul this little beast out of the boat, I would like to put it back in all clean and pretty with internals that are ready for another 2500 hours!
I am concerned about the boom and I don't think a small crane will be in the plans so.....I will remove the gearbox, starter, fluids, and any thing else I can see to reduce weight.
Except for using the halyard to take some of the weight, I'm still not sure how to brace the boom and still allow it to swing. Any suggestions?
Thanks for the input folks. I will update this thread and take some pictures as things progress.

 

[boofus]

just did this, with my kubota d1105
used a couple of halyards, passed the halyard through a snatch block that was attached to the end of the boom, to hold the halyard away from the mast and over the companionway, a cleat and a little purchase would help here to be able the adjust this position. I did this alone, but would be much easier with two people. I did a lot of back and forth from the winch to the engine to make sure it was clearing everything. majority of loads were on the mast with some compression on the boom, but no weight. I used two halyards because mine are old and suspect. bummer was the engine was just put in by old owner..... not exactly a full and complete install, he used 2x4's and drywall screws to "pack out" the stringers

 

[Sailormon6]

The Universal M30 is base on the Kubota D-1101. Westerbeke/Universal usually removed identifying marks from the engine when marinizing. I suggest you contact a local Kubota tractor dealer a see if you can get parts through them, it will be significantly cheaper than going to Westerbeke/Universal. They will normally need the serial number off the engine before they can look up parts. PM if you need more information.

I have a 30 hp Yanmar engine that needs parts. Can anyone tell me if it is also based on a tractor or similar small engine, who's parts might be less expensive than if bought from Yanmar and, if so, what brand?

 

[captbillc]

steveg353-----if you have the proper tools & the mechanical ability & decide to over haul it yourself, get the shop service manual for the engine. if you have someone do the work see if you can watch. you will get an education.

 

[r.furborough]

Sailorman, sorry Yanmar is Yanmar is Yanmar...... They do make tractor variants of their engines but they are difficult to cross-refer...