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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to rig my main with single-line reefing for the first two reefing points.
My original thought was to put blocks on the sail at the reefing cringles. I wasn't to keen on the weight or aesthetics of that but I wanted to reduce the friction as much as possible.
These low-friction rings look as though they might do the trick:

Does anyone have experience with them? Would I see a noticeable difference between using these rings or just passing my reefing lines through the reefing cringles - these aren't grommets: they are stainless rings on either side of the sail?
Thanks in advance
 
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Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
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I have never seen a single line reefing system which actually worked very well. There tends to be a lot of friction, much higher line loads, and an absurd amount of line to haul. I have actually removed single line reefing from a couple of my boats after not being able to get decent sail shape when reefed and not being able to get a reef in quickly enough.

But if you have your heart set on single line reefing, then I would strongly suggest that you look at ways to reduce friction. While those rings are supposed to offer a lower friction than simple stainless steel rings, I would suggest that you would do better using small low friction blocks instead. I would also suggest using small diameter high modulus line, or the core of a high modulus line with its cover removed to further reduce friction.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have never seen a single line reefing system which actually worked very well. There tends to be a lot of friction, much higher line loads, and an absurd amount of line to haul. I have actually removed single line reefing from a couple of my boats after not being able to get decent sail shape when reefed and not being able to get a reef in quickly enough.
Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have my heart set on the single-line system per se, it's just that I intend to single-hand a lot and would prefer to not have to leave the cockpit especially in conditions that would call for reefing. I thought that the single-line system would be 'safest' in that regard. Two lines would, I think, present the same challenges regarding sail shape and would require additional clutches.

The other alternative would be to have a line on the leach and hook the luff cringle onto the hook. This is how I have been reefing up to now, and, although a good sail shape can be achieved, there have been some interesting moments up at the mast.

I will be installing a stack-away (stack-pack) with lazy jacks this year (up to now I don't have lazy jacks) so this would eliminate the need to go on deck to tie down the sail when reefed.
 
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You could run both tack and clew reef lines aft individually, that would allow reefing from the cockpit but avoid the overly long single line ple of rope. That costs more in clutched, stoppers etc, but it's another idea...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You could run both tack and clew reef lines aft individually, that would allow reefing from the cockpit but avoid the overly long single line ple of rope. That costs more in clutched, stoppers etc, but it's another idea...
I agree, but I think you would still have the challenge of sail-shape that Jeff mentioned.
 

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I agree, but I think you would still have the challenge of sail-shape that Jeff mentioned.
Actually, I think that's what Jeff H uses, you can individually adjust tack and clew and it should work just fine. I think Jeff's beef (on sail shape/settings) was not with the friction so much as the common tension on both tack and clew.
 

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my boat came with hooks....into cringles on the main...there is a high tech line used to a small very small winch almost all the way forward towards the gooseneck

im eager to try it out as its a similar thought process to what the op is suggesting if I dont like it Ill have to try something else out...

my boat also has lazy jacks...never have been a fan but what are the pros? im used to very simpe less lines mains...
 

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Ron (Faster) is right. I use a two line reefing system for each reef. I have one line that is tied at the gooseneck, runs vertically up to the luff reef cringle and then back down to a turning block at the deck and then back to the cockpit. There is a second line which is tied around the boom, runs up through the leech reef cringle and then back aft to a turning block at the boom end, inside the boom to a block near the gooseneck then back down to a turning block at the deck and then back to the cockpit.

On a boat like the Hunter 30 you should be able to use a simple cam cleat for the luff line since you tension the luff with the halyard and its winch. The leech will probably require a stopper and be led to a winch.

This allows the luff to be tensioned independently of the foot of the sail. The luff line has almost no load on it when it is pulled in so it happens very quickly. The leech has a lot of load and requires some grinding, but there is a lot less line and friction involved.

Jeff
 

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I suggest you read this article on "low friction" Low Friction Rings

I have used low friction rings in a cascade for my cunningham but I don't think that it is a good choice for a single line reef setup.

I have two line reef setup for all three reefs (Will only have reef three ready for use when we plan longer offshore crossings).

Two line reef works fine.
-Good control of sail shape
-Less rope in cockpit

My tack reef line is tied to the reef cringle, go through a block at the mast down to a turning block at deck level - no mechanical advantage.
Back to the winch/clutch.
Don't use much force to pull down the tack reef line (a better name anyone)

Here you can see
Tack reef line (Green&White) going through the block (This block ensures a good angle for the reef line)
Cunningham with the low friction rings


The clew reef line go from the boom down to turning block at mast base.
 

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I use single line reefing on my Pearson 28-2. I have an Antal low friction ring at the tack. The system works well for me.

My reefing line is Amsteel, which is a lot more slippery than a double braid. It is also smaller and lighter for what that is worth. I think that the Amsteel reefing line made a bigger difference than the Antal ring, but both helped.

I used to run it through both cringles, but added the Antal ring to the tack cringle last year. I made a "dogbone" that has a stainless ring on one side of the cringle and the Antal ring on the other side. The Antal ring noticably reduced friction compared to running the reefing line through the cringle. Running the reefing line up and down on one side of the sail avoids crushing the sail against then boom when it is reefed. This was causing noticeable chafe on my main.

If I know that I am going to reef at the dock I can use the reefing hook and use the reefing line only for the clew.

My boat has a fairly small ~175sqft main sail. I can see why two line reefing might work better on a larger main sail as the loads go up.

Here is an image of the ring in use:



I don't like how this setup is trying to pull the padeye out of the mast, or that the line slides through there. I keep meaning to experiment with an alternative routing at that point.
 

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Have single line on first two reefs and double on third. Built boat and main to accommodate. Have blocks sewn into sail. Using dyneema/spectra lines. Deck set ups have minimal angles for bends and good blocks. Jeff is right you need to do everything possible to decrease friction. But with Dutchman I can hoist,reef and strike myself without leaving the cockpit. Unlike in boom I can go to a reach or stay on a beat trim the jib ease the main sheet reef and resume course without need to wake anyone. On single line reefs can shape a bit with halyard tension and not pulling reef way tight. More so then I would get from in boom. Have power on all winches but grind the last few inches when worrying about over tensioning.
Spaghetti is longer but less lines. Dump under hard dodger so non issue. Everything runs through clutches so winches left free. ( usually leave main sheet on winch with clutch open).
Don't like in boom.if you lose halyard whole sail pores on deck and would be uncontrollable for me.
Don't like in mast.have had jams and too much excitement.
So far single on first two and double on third has been just fine.
 

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This is a very interesting discussion, as I installed a two line-per-reef system last year.

The tack lines go up to a Gargauer block attached to the tack, then back down and back to the cockpit. This gives a 2:1 purchase at the tack. This works great with very little friction.

The clew lines just go through the clew eye, and there is more friction than I'd like. I tried a block there, but you could no longer pull the clew down far enough. A block with its associated piece of line attaching it to the clew, was too long overall.

I wonder if these low friction eyes would work instead?

Edit : just saw the Gioits, very cool
 

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RichH, do you have experience with the Goiot roller cringles? I have seen adds for them over the years and have been intrigued but would like to get a testimonial before I pull the trigger. I have been pretty happy with the single line reefing set up on my 34. My biggest point of friction has been the (reefing) tack cringles. (Not so much a problem on the clew reefing cringles). I have tried the micro block and ring thing but the block has a nasty habit of flipping over and twisting the reefing line resulting in a heck of a lot more friction. The Goiot cringle, if it works, would be a perfect solution to my friction problem.
 

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It seems, at least on my setup, that to get the mainsail fairly flat requires the ability to pull the clew right down to the boom. So only a block fixed right to the sail would work.
 

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MarkSF: You can make the dogbone quite short and achieve that with an Antal low friction ring. I'm using a longer soft shackle for my dogbone because that gives me the ability to also hook the stainless side onto the reefing hook.

The typical way to do these dogbones is with a piece of sewn webbing. Look at a high quality sail and you'll probably see them on there.
 

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Yes the tack has a webbing dogbone, with rings on each end. I simply attached the block to the ring. The length of the webbing is not an issue at the tack.

But at the clew it would be - I really need to get the clew right down to the boom.
 

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This is a very interesting discussion, as I installed a two line-per-reef system last year.

The tack lines go up to a Gargauer block attached to the tack, then back down and back to the cockpit. This gives a 2:1 purchase at the tack. This works great with very little friction.

The clew lines just go through the clew eye, and there is more friction than I'd like. I tried a block there, but you could no longer pull the clew down far enough. A block with its associated piece of line attaching it to the clew, was too long overall.

I wonder if these low friction eyes would work instead?

Edit : just saw the Gioits, very cool
My clew line go through the eye like this, don't think that using low friction rings would help much here.

 
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