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Discussion Starter #1
The attached pic is of the base of the mast. It is located very close to the companion way (the fabric in the picture is the cover for the companion way which indicates how close the mast is). There are two horn cleats in the photo which are close to the deck.

There's no room to install a deck organizer to route the halyards to the cockpit. There are two horn cleats but they are very close to the deck as shown in the picture.

The only solution I have come up with is to mount some large clamcleats with a fairleads on the sides of the mast above the horn cleats.

Looking for suggestions/solutions... thanks.
schock25halyardcleat.jpg
 

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not really sure what you are trying to do. running line back to the cockpit works on larger boats but it also adds a lot of friction to the halyard and therefor requires a winch to get the halyards tight what you have are Jam cleats and they are installed upside down. the jam end should go on the up side so the line coming down the mast can go down and up around the smooth side and then down and thru the jam side. they are angled so the jam side will hold the line only slightly while you sweat the line tight. once tight you tie a cleat hitch.
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If you're trying to run things back to the cockpit you could mount turning blocks on the bottom of the mast or the mast step. The bolt at the aft end of the mast step looks like a good place for swivel blocks to attach. Clam cleats work best for dinghies and control lines that need to be or can be attended frequently. Halyards... not so much, especially up on the mast where they aren't easily tended. Overbored is also right about your existing cleats.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The first pic is of a jamcleat. They are also called clamcleats. I don't have any of these on the boat.

The second pic is a horncleat. These are what I have as shown in the pic in my initial post.

It seems that the terminology is being confused here.

The mast is so close to the cockpit that the halyard lines are already at the cockpit.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The first pic is of a jamcleat. I don't have any of these on the boat. These are also called clamcleats.

The second pic is a horncleat. These are what I have as shown in the pic in my initial post.

It seems that the terminology is being confused here.

The mast is so close to the cockpit that the halyard lines are already at the cockpit.
 

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what you have is a 5" Schaffer Jam cleat and with the cam side down so it is very hard to pull up on the line. you are pulling it into the jam side. turn them over and you will be able to get the halyard tight with very little effort. during my time working a Schock boats I installed about 10k of those cleats.
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Discussion Starter #7
OK.. I'm heading for the boat this morning and I will take a closer look at the cleats and also take another pic or two.
Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
what you have is a 5" Schaffer Jam cleat and with the cam side down so it is very hard to pull up on the line. you are pulling it into the jam side. turn them over and you will be able to get the halyard tight with very little effort. during my time working a Schock boats I installed about 10k of those cleats. View attachment 136162
I began to loosen the jam cleats yesterday to invert them as you suggested. As I was unscrewing the first one, I saw that the threads indicated a bolt rather than a screw. So I stopped and tightened back down. I was concerned that if I unscrewed it all the way the nut inside the mast would drop off the bolt.
Do you know if these are bolts or screws? Thanks.
 

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It's not likely that they'd simply cut threads in the mast wall to hold a cleat, so you will probably have to lower the mast and open up the end to hold the nuts. Of course, if you've started loosening the bolt, then you won't be able to tighten it back up again without holding the nut, so you need to lower the mast and open it up anyway. Welcome to the cascading effects of boat ownership: Every action you take has at least two unequal and greater re-actions. The bolts at the butt of the mast ARE probably threaded into the cast shoe that fits inside the bottom of the mast. They may be difficult to remove because of electrolysis/corrosion, but be persistent. Good luck!
 

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Hardware is often attached to the mast by tapping a hole and installing with a machine screw.
 

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could be nuts or threaded backing plate just depends on when it was built. the mast base has modern flange head self tapping screws in it now but would have been pop rivets when new. could be that the PO did some work on the base and cleats and did not know they were installing them upside down. it has been redone since new
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the comments. I was able to screw it back in and get it tight again.
The boat was built in 1962.
The cast shoe is quite shallow and the cleats are mounted above the cast shoe.
Rather than lower the mast/re-step the mast, I'll cleat off the halyards using a clamcleat with a fairlead.
 

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Have never seen a mast where hardware is attached with other than drilled and tapped Machine screws or Pop Rivets. Tapped course threads hold just fine unless bronze fasteners are used. Fasteners should be installed with TefGel, Lanocote, silver Never Seize, Blue LocTite or other insulating goo to make removing the fasteners easier after multiple decades have passed.
 

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What you pictured and titled a Jam cleat is a Clam Cleat. Would never use them on a halyard or other line I wanted to be securely fastened. They have a place on lines that are often retensioned but I ditched them on my sheets because any little nudge would dislodge the line and let the sheet run free.

As others have said, the Jam Cleats are mounted upside down. The tension side of the line should go around the smooth end and the jam side after tension is taken up on the smooth side.

Don't use self tapping/sheet metal screws on a mast or boom. The course threads get a minimal bite on the aluminum and WILL strip out in short order if under much tension.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
From looking online at pics of the different cleats, the terms "jam" and "clam" are used very loosely and often interchangeably.
 

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You can call them the wrong thing if you want but they aren't interchangeable and are very different animals. What you pictured labelled as a jam cleat is actually a clam cleat as was the black plastic cleat pictured later.

Overbored's photo and the cleats on your mast are jam cleats.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
OK... just do a image search on google and you will see that numerous sources use the term "jam cleat" for "clam cleat." You will see pictured what you call a "clam cleat" labeled as a "jam cleat."

It's not me calling a "clam cleat" a "jam cleat." I'm just quoting what numerous sources say. The terms are being used interchangeably. Your argument is not against me.
 
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