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I picked up the sail to my new Bristol 26 and it says P23 on the top. Is this bad? Is it a sail for a precision 23?
Mainsail?
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I'm assuming you're asking about the mainsail. Yup, it's most likely a Precision 23 sail which, if cut to spec, will be undersized for your Bristol. Comparing the two boats on Sailboatdata.com is the worlds largest sailboat database., the max luff ('P' dimension is 27' for your Bristol and 26' 3" for the Precision. The 'E' dimension for your Bristol is 11' 9" and 10' 6" for the Precision 23. In terms of square feet, the main on the Bristol is 158.63 sq feet versus 137.81 sq feet for the Precision 23 -- that's a big difference. It probably works, but you'll get much better performance from a sail sized to your rig. Try Bacon's or Atlantic Sail Traders and perhaps pick up a used sail closer to your measurements (unless you want to invest in a new sail). Be sure to check your headsail(s). Your Bristol is a masthead rig and the Precision is a fractional -- while the main might work (though not optimal), a Precision 23 headsail won't work on a Bristol 26 (there's a 60 square foot difference between the two).
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Anyone have any experience with Lee sails? They are a lot cheaper. do you pay for what you get? All the other lofts seem to be pretty comparable price wise.
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Check with Sailboatwreckingyard (Sail Inventory) on used sails. They are in Bellingham and so pretty close to your boat. This Islander 24 sail looks like a closer fit:
Main Sail- Islander 24 26' 5" X 11' 9" #89 "Nootka Sails" Good Shape I24 on sail
I will say that it is very hard to evaluate a used sail without flying it and seeing the shape. All that you can really do on the hard is check the sail cloth condition, and that isn't very informative (it will tell you when a sail is bad, but not when a sail is good).
There are many different types of slugs on main sails. When pricing a main keep some extra budget to cover the cost of replacing slugs.
The best used sail source in Seattle was Second Wave, but they stopped carrying sails about six months ago and will likely be closing in March.
Main Sail- Islander 24 26' 5" X 11' 9" #89 "Nootka Sails" Good Shape I24 on sail
I will say that it is very hard to evaluate a used sail without flying it and seeing the shape. All that you can really do on the hard is check the sail cloth condition, and that isn't very informative (it will tell you when a sail is bad, but not when a sail is good).
There are many different types of slugs on main sails. When pricing a main keep some extra budget to cover the cost of replacing slugs.
The best used sail source in Seattle was Second Wave, but they stopped carrying sails about six months ago and will likely be closing in March.
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You'll find at least as many opinions as there are lofts. I have no personal experience with Lee apart from getting quotes from them. Keep in mind that unless you use a local loft, you'll be measuring yourself -- it's not hard, but it needs to be accurate. I have a friend who has had two sails from Lee -- one was great and the other wasn't cut properly (not sure if he took it back to the local agent).
Some of the big variables you'll find across different lofts include sail cloth and workmanship details (i.e. reinforced stitching, clew rings, etc.). Do your research -- look here and other sites for feedback from other customers. Ultimately it's buyer beware -- you need to feel comfortable with who you're dealing with. I looked at one loft (begins with a P and rhymes with 'weak') that had a great price but also a bad reputation for not delivering together with a Better Business Bureau file that would make your hair curl. Your local loft will cost you more, but they will come to your boat and measure and will make any adjustments afterwards in the event any changes are required. I recently ordered a main from Rolly Tasker thru National Sail in Florida. I made my decision based on personal recommendations from people I know and trust, my dealings with Dirk at National Sail and their online reputation. My local lofts are great and I support them whenever I can, but the cost difference was substantial.
Some of the big variables you'll find across different lofts include sail cloth and workmanship details (i.e. reinforced stitching, clew rings, etc.). Do your research -- look here and other sites for feedback from other customers. Ultimately it's buyer beware -- you need to feel comfortable with who you're dealing with. I looked at one loft (begins with a P and rhymes with 'weak') that had a great price but also a bad reputation for not delivering together with a Better Business Bureau file that would make your hair curl. Your local loft will cost you more, but they will come to your boat and measure and will make any adjustments afterwards in the event any changes are required. I recently ordered a main from Rolly Tasker thru National Sail in Florida. I made my decision based on personal recommendations from people I know and trust, my dealings with Dirk at National Sail and their online reputation. My local lofts are great and I support them whenever I can, but the cost difference was substantial.
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azguy: On the C22 there are a lot of pre-made sails available since it is such a common boat. Also check out North Sails Direct, a friend who had a NSD mainsail and Rolly Tasker jib on his C22 thought that the NSD was better made.
I haven't found RT or most other online lofts to be much cheaper than my local loft. It's worth the 5-10% extra to me to have the boat measured and get local service.
I haven't found RT or most other online lofts to be much cheaper than my local loft. It's worth the 5-10% extra to me to have the boat measured and get local service.
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I'm wondering that too. Since I was going to go two plus two. But am not too too familiar with the pros and cons.
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You took the words right out of my mouth. Most of our wind in Arizona is under 10 knots and I sail single-handed like 99% of the time.
Most popular sites I found gave this list:
Advantages
1. Less Flogging. With full battens the sail doesn't flap like a flag when it is not drawing. This increases the overall life of the sail since flogging is very hard on the cloth. It is also quiete
2. Easier to Furl. The battens make the sail drop onto the boom in a nice neat stack provided you have lazy jacks to hold it.)
3. Improved draft shape. Full battens induce a much smoother sail shape that holds better especially off the wind and in choppy seas. And in heavy air, they keep the draft from moving aft in the sail provided the battens are stiff enough and\or are tensioned enough).
4. Improved profile shape. Aerodynamically, a sail with a large roach at the head (an elliptical profile) is more efficient than the more traditional triangular profile because it creates less induced-drag which increases the lift-to-drag-ratio. In practice this means less heeling, less weather helm and more speed.
Only fair to list the "cons" too...I do have lazy-jacks and downhaul, btw..
Disadvantages
1. Must have lazy-jacks to enjoy the benefits of easier furling, otherwise the full battens fall past the boom and are harder to handle than a sail without full battens.
2. Must have telltales in the luff of the sail because the full battens eliminate luffing making it impossible to check the sail trim by watching the luff.
3. More weight aloft. The additional weight of the battens pockets and extra hardware aloft makes the boat more tender in a breeze. It also makes the sail heavier to hoist.
4. Increased maintenance. The lazy-jacks tend to chafe the sail especially at the battens, as do the shrouds when sailing off the wind. This means frequent re-stitching and patching at the trouble spots.
5. Jamming. Full battens have a strong tendency to hang up when the sail is being raised and lowered. This problem can be largely eliminated with the right luff hardware at the batten ends, but the cost of this hardware ranges from high to astronomical.
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I too am looking for a main sail and so far, North Sails in Fla has responded favorably. I've a 36' CS and need a main. I'm a little frustrated as I don't know what to expect and what questions to ask.
Here's the quote I got from North Sails: "Custom built in 8.62 oz Challenge High Aspect dacron to the dimensions we have on file, luff 42.75', foot 12.75', with standard battens and 2 reefs, a new mainsail would be priced at $1,659.
Sail comes standard with leech line with clam cleats at reefs and clew, tell tales, flo-stripes, sail battens and sail bag. Construction is to full offshore specifications and includes triple-stitched seams, large radial corner and reef reinforcements, with handsewn leather chafe protection.
Current delivery time is 4 to 6 weeks from confirmation of order."
Here's a Yager quote: "I just built a new main for a CS36. I used a cruising laminate, partial full battens, three sets of reef points, heavy seams, heavy batten pockets, heavy bolt rope, ready for offshore. The cost to build the sail was $ 2800.00 U.S. If you were looking for something less, leech battens, Dacron Crosscut, it would be less to build: $ 2600.00 depending upon how many reef sets you need and fittings you choose.
I am a custom sail designer and builder. Most of the sails I design and build go way beyond what you get with a stock off the shelf sail."
Local Kent Sails quoted about $2,600 with little detail but I can go to their loft and they can show me.
But an $800 difference is hard to turn my back on! I'm thinking of going to my local loft to gain some education even though with your favorable remarks about North, they're looking pretty good! Thanks for your expertise!
Here's the quote I got from North Sails: "Custom built in 8.62 oz Challenge High Aspect dacron to the dimensions we have on file, luff 42.75', foot 12.75', with standard battens and 2 reefs, a new mainsail would be priced at $1,659.
Sail comes standard with leech line with clam cleats at reefs and clew, tell tales, flo-stripes, sail battens and sail bag. Construction is to full offshore specifications and includes triple-stitched seams, large radial corner and reef reinforcements, with handsewn leather chafe protection.
Current delivery time is 4 to 6 weeks from confirmation of order."
Here's a Yager quote: "I just built a new main for a CS36. I used a cruising laminate, partial full battens, three sets of reef points, heavy seams, heavy batten pockets, heavy bolt rope, ready for offshore. The cost to build the sail was $ 2800.00 U.S. If you were looking for something less, leech battens, Dacron Crosscut, it would be less to build: $ 2600.00 depending upon how many reef sets you need and fittings you choose.
I am a custom sail designer and builder. Most of the sails I design and build go way beyond what you get with a stock off the shelf sail."
Local Kent Sails quoted about $2,600 with little detail but I can go to their loft and they can show me.
But an $800 difference is hard to turn my back on! I'm thinking of going to my local loft to gain some education even though with your favorable remarks about North, they're looking pretty good! Thanks for your expertise!
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1,409 Posts
Is it north sails direct? North quoted me over $2000 for a main and I have a 10 foot smaller boat than yours.
However direct has one for 900 plus upgrades. I'm not really sure what NS direct is since I just found their site last night.
From all the sail quotes I got I think if I get new sails this year, which I am still debating since I have a lot I want to do, I will go with Kappa from CT since the prices are the same and they are made in CT.
Lee is half price so if I was to go with a China sail I would go them. I can't see why I would pay double for a hood or north when they are probably made in the same factory. But since I have the option to go "made in cool country" I'll go Kappa. My boat is from nearby and the sailmaker used to have a bristol 28.
If anyone knows of other small US, Europe, Canada, or Australia makers I would like to hear it.
The only other I know of is in Port Townsend and they want $4000 for the main alone and it won't be ready until October. I called last year to get a quote for my ranger and their prices weren't double but +33%. Maybe they are getting big heads.
However direct has one for 900 plus upgrades. I'm not really sure what NS direct is since I just found their site last night.
From all the sail quotes I got I think if I get new sails this year, which I am still debating since I have a lot I want to do, I will go with Kappa from CT since the prices are the same and they are made in CT.
Lee is half price so if I was to go with a China sail I would go them. I can't see why I would pay double for a hood or north when they are probably made in the same factory. But since I have the option to go "made in cool country" I'll go Kappa. My boat is from nearby and the sailmaker used to have a bristol 28.
If anyone knows of other small US, Europe, Canada, or Australia makers I would like to hear it.
The only other I know of is in Port Townsend and they want $4000 for the main alone and it won't be ready until October. I called last year to get a quote for my ranger and their prices weren't double but +33%. Maybe they are getting big heads.
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I bought Doyle sails today. Should be ready four to five weeks which is right when I will be getting started. And made in Seattle. Can't beat that.
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All by phone. But of course I'll be there when we put them up.
What do I do with my old sails, which are in really nice shape, they just weren't a perfect fit, nor made for what I hope to do. (I got 7.2 oz. cloth with the second reef super deep. Deep enough to reduce the main to 25%). The p. o. Got them used as a close fit.
Can I sell them somehow to apply that money to some other project? The projects are building up.
What do I do with my old sails, which are in really nice shape, they just weren't a perfect fit, nor made for what I hope to do. (I got 7.2 oz. cloth with the second reef super deep. Deep enough to reduce the main to 25%). The p. o. Got them used as a close fit.
Can I sell them somehow to apply that money to some other project? The projects are building up.
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