[alctel]

Apart from a life raft

In the case of something like a PSS seal failing, hitting a container or the rudder getting knocked off (this post comes after reading about the loss of the Red Sky) and water flooding in, what's the best thing to have on board to at least stabilize the water flow until you can emergency patch?

Originally I had intended to install an engine-powered bilge pump on my Yanmar 2QM20, but it's in the stern and any flooding caused by rudder or prop shaft damage seems like it would overwhelm the engine really quickly. I was looking at those emergancy crash pumps, but they are pricey, ~$800, and look hard to store. Does anyone have any of those?

I currently have 3 auto bilge pumps (1 2000gph, 1 500gph and a shower sump) and a manual water puppy impeller pump AND a manual pump, but would maybe like something REALLY heavy duty as a real 'oh ****!' pump.

 

[gptyk]

I would worry that a gas-powered crash pump would end up non-operative due to lack of maintenance (i.e. get tossed in a locker and forgotten about)

A bucket can move about 5 gallons each time.

 

[poopdeckpappy]

a couple of wax toilet bowl rings and wood plugs

 

[SHNOOL]

I saw an interesting series by Yachting monthly on this subject... really gets you thinking.

They also did a bunch of testing on wire cutters for a lost rig.

 

[Mabinogion]

As above

Full article from Yachting Monthly 2011

http://www.admiralyacht.com/admiral-news/crash-test-boat-pdfs/crash-test-boat-sinking.pdf

 

[zedboy]

The answer to one of the questions on the CG exam here is to take the raw-water intake hose and drop it into the bilge.

I think I've heard of doing such things in real life but I don't know how many GPM it rates.

Always seemed a good thought to keep filed away in case.

 

[miatapaul]

All you need to know, ok it is a good start!

 

[Minnesail]

I saw an interesting series by Yachting monthly on this subject... really gets you thinking.

They also did a bunch of testing on wire cutters for a lost rig.

Yes, +1 to this.

What really struck me about this was just how hard it was to get a big hole in the boat. The scored it with a grinder, then hit with a sledge, as I recall they tried using the sledge and a chisel, then they ground on it some more.

 

[SVAuspicious]

The answer to one of the questions on the CG exam here is to take the raw-water intake hose and drop it into the bilge.

Which is silly. Cooling water runs about 15 gpm/100 hp. That means a common 50 hp engine pumps 8(ish) gpm which is close to useless.

People talk about this all the time but it is not a good idea.

For the doubters, stick a bucket under the engine exhaust on your boat and see how long it takes to fill.

 

[Stumble]

Which is silly. Cooling water runs about 15 gpm/100 hp. That means a common 50 hp engine pumps 8(ish) gpm which is close to useless.

People talk about this all the time but it is not a good idea.

For the doubters, stick a bucket under the engine exhaust on your boat and see how long it takes to fill.

Not to mention that in the event of a major hole the last thing I want to worry about is the cooling system of my engine picking up all the floating trash in the water and having to clean out the strainer. Or worse taking the intake from after the strainer and clogging up the coolant system.

If you really want a crash pump look into a PTO driven dewatering pump with as much capacity as you can fit, or a stand alone trash pump. Either will work. Their are advantages and disadvantages to both, but they will move a lot more water than anything else.

 

[mbianka]

I once stuffed some plastic grocery bags into a 4 inch gash. Kept the boat afloat overnight until the boatyard opened up in the morning. For a larger hole you could put towels in some bags to bulk it up.

 

[mitiempo]

Probably a Pacer pump either on a pto or gas powered for large capacity water removal. Problem of the pto is that if the engine dies you're sunk. Gas powered can be placed on deck well above water level.



Honda powered 15,800 gallons/hour about $800

Briggs & Stratton powered with same output under $500

 

[georgemci102a2]

I keep a couple of large sponges on mine.They soak/ring out fast and are handy to wipe out the cockpit.Might not help in a major leak,but something to think about....George.

 

[zedboy]

Which is silly. Cooling water runs about 15 gpm/100 hp. That means a common 50 hp engine pumps 8(ish) gpm which is close to useless.

Yeah and I suppose a 25hp would be ~4 GPM = 240 GPH ... better off with a bucket.

Related question for the class: how fast is a typical "nasty leak" eg. a through-hull completely failing? Worse than 10GPM? 20?

 

[Minnewaska]

Yeah and I suppose a 25hp would be ~4 GPM = 240 GPH ... better off with a bucket.

Related question for the class: how fast is a typical "nasty leak" eg. a through-hull completely failing? Worse than 10GPM? 20?

Flow is dependent on the size of the hole and depth below the waterline. SV is right on. The engine pump wont' keep up with any hole of serious concern. For that matter, imagine what would happen to your rubber impeller, if debris gets past your strainer or just clogs your strainer and the pump runs dry.

This chart is in gallons per minute!

 

[lillia28]

A collision mat (fothering sail to O'Brien fans) will stop the water coming in, THEN the BA pump. The mat is a smallish tarp with a line on each corner. slide the mat under the hull until the tarp covers the hole. The water stops coming in, then pump out. There is a pump that works off the prop shaft and moves a lot of water. Something like flow jet or jet flow. I'll look it up and post later.
L

 

[Mabinogion]

Attend a yachting orientated course that includes damage control as part of its content e.g.:-

Royal Southampton Yacht Club - View Article

this one even has an ex. RNLI training module with firefighting and flooding!

 

[Minnewaska]

If I collect anything, it's stuff at boat shows that claim to stop a leak. In part, I just find them funny and figure they can't hurt!! I have standard wooden plugs by the dozens, foam plugs, underwater epoxy patches, rescue tape by the box, and on and on. One of my favs, however, is a product called Stay Afloat. It's essentially a thick wax, like toilet gasket wax, that you pack into a hole. One toilet ring is not enough, you may need a couple of quarts for a rudder post. It will naturally conform to any irregular size, unlike most plugs.

I believe they show it on those Yachting Monthly series. Watch them all!! Fires, rollovers, explosions, etc. Great stuff. IIRC, they have separate vids on poking a hole through the hull and a thru hull failure.

There are two scenarios that concern me the most.

The first is a long gash. Having crew put cushions over it and hold it with their foot, is probably step one. That assumes the gash is even accessible. The problem is whether you have enough patching product to deal with it. Perhaps try to heal the boat away from the hole, if you can. Unfortunately, long gashes have sunk better boats that ours (military, cruise ships, etc), so I think they are a doomsday scenario. There is a story of a boat that ran over a sunken post on the ICW, putting a gash in its belly. The boat was beneath the surface, out of sight, in something like 60 or 90 seconds, with its occupants in the liferaft. Most other leaks do not cause anything of this magnitude. Watch the series.

The second concern is dropping the rudder. That's a huge hole. I sometimes ask myself if I overstuff the lazz and make it impossible to get to the rudder post in time!! Assuming the post fell right out, I would probably try to stuff the entire container of Stay Afloat down the hole and then epoxy a patch overtop. Hoping I could do this before a few thousand gallons of water were in my bilge.

While it's considered good practice to tie wrap a bag with a properly sized wooden plug to each thru hull and to have an emergency hammer handy, I find that solution to be the most unlikely to be needed. The hose would have to fall off (meaning, it could likely be reattached or the seacock closed instead) or the thru-hull would have to pop off in fairly round condition. If you had a leak at a thru hull, whereby you couldn't just close it, it would more likely be catastrophic. Something probably slid past and broke it off and left a mess that a round plug isn't going to fix.

 

[TomMaine]

We've dealt with one catastrophic sinking about 15 years ago. I carelessly hit a submerged ledge with our lowered centerboard. Due to poor design, as the board raised, the linkage bound up and lifted the centerboard trunk off the keel(all redesigned and tested!!!).

To make a long story short, this resulted in a hole about(less actually) 2"x4", below the sole(invisible), and 3' below the waterline.

With a Rule 2000 pump running and a large cockpit bilge pump vigorously worked, we had enough time to start the engine and head full throttle to a (luckily)nearby island, 1/2 NM away.

With water over the settee tops in the cabin, we coasted onto the rocky beach, and killed the engine just before water reached the air intake. When the stern settled on the beach, water was over the icebox and counters in the galley.

We(my family of four) didn't have the time to think. It was simply reaction. We had '1/2 NM - full throttle', worth of time.

I'm a better navigator today. If anything, I'm less concerned about pumps now and much more concerned about prevention.

 

[capt jgwinks]

Even the Coast Guard has trouble getting their dewatering pumps to run. I assisted them on a rescue once where they went through three pumps before they got one to run. And this was the MK (engineer) responsible for maintaining the pumps that couldn't make them go.