[Bruce3966]

I know what most of the answers will be here but I will ask anyway. Most know of the P165 I assume but most probably don't know the floatation details in this boat so I will explain. As you know the boat is small as well as the cabin but it's plenty big enough for me to sleep in over the weekends.

Storage is not a lot so hence my question on flotation. The 165 has two silly pieces of foam strapped up aft of the berths. Mine are pretty beat up and have large chunks out of them and I am sure this is due to the PO's taking them out to work on the transom etc.

It would be sweet if they weren't THAT important and one could take them out which would give a person a ton of storage area. Not sure how any added aft storage weight could effect handling however I would only store light weight items back there (50 lbs roughly). If I capsize it, I'll let it sink and collect insurance and buy a larger tub.

Size of the 2 pieces of foam are about 3' x 1' x 1'---not huge. Would it hold me up in water..probably. Would it hold a 750lb boat plus 300+ lbs of cargo plus 250lbs of human weight....NO.

 

[Barquito]

That might be enough for positive buoyancy. I would say if you can survive a knock down (mast resting on the water), and get the boat back up without sinking, then you probably won't sink the boat. If a knock down would sink the boat, I would keep the floatation. You may be able to relocate and distribute the floatation to make better use of space.

 

[Bruce3966]

I just measured these pieces. 20" x 26" x 12". Just enough to block tons of storage under the cockpit.

 

[Minnesail]

I just measured these pieces. 20" x 26" x 12". Just enough to block tons of storage under the cockpit.

= 3.6 cubic feet each
= 225 pounds floatation each

 

[aloof]

Would it hold me up in water..probably. Would it hold a 750lb boat plus 300+ lbs of cargo plus 250lbs of human weight....NO.

The boat and cargo and your chubby body don't displace nearly as much as they begin to sink. The whole is weightless while afloat, right? Cargo and humans are nearly weightless in water, as is the hull of boats not made of steel or concrete. Any ballast in the boat has significant weight and it is this that they hope to float with the foam.

Perhaps they found the boat interior was likely to flood in a knock down or in pooping seas.

 

[Bruce3966]

= 3.6 cubic feet each
= 225 pounds floatation each

Holy cow. I'll keep them. Since my wife only weighs 105 lbs maybe I'll cut her side float in half & if we capsize and she grabs mine I'll fight her for it. I will keep them but cover them with plastic bags and duct tape it closed. They sure do create a lot of small very staticy pieces of styrofoam which drives me nuts.

 

[GeorgeB]

Bruce, you will need approximately 21cf of floatation so you will be looking at tripling your existing floatation. We work on keeping the water out and the slimy side down.

 

[Bruce3966]

Bruce, you will need approximately 21cf of floatation so you will be looking at tripling your existing floatation. We work on keeping the water out and the slimy side down.

Tripling--there is no room for that. There is more flotation all over the boat. This is just two pieces held up by a strap under the cockpit that I was tempted to remove to gain storage in the totally open space aft of both berths.

 

[Bruce3966]

Take a look at the two pieces of foam. Both the same size and the second photo shows size compared to my car tire. These things are dinky. Very hard to believe this two pieces will make or break if I turtle or sink it totally. Maybe but hard to believe.

I guess for now I will wrap them in plastic bags and seal with duct tape and hang them back up.

 

[GeorgeB]

Bruce, kinda hard to tell from my laptop monitor, but are those closed cell (like Styrofoam) or open cell foam? (like a sponge?) No need to encase in plastic unless they can absorb water. You can also spray some adhesive and re-stick foam (Just make sure it won't dissolve the foam first) The big thing is to stop the down flooding (keeping the water out). On my Catalina 22, I did this by using a hasp to secure the lazarette lockers and I kept the hatch boards in and the slider closed when I went to "Condition W". This will keep most of the water out (I knocked down once in the Slot on San Francisco Bay). If this should ever befall you - Release the jib and mainsheets immediately! Boats with weighted keels should be able to right themselves but not with water holding the sails down. Don't worry - knocking down hardly ever happens, but if you feel like you're going over - release the mainsheet.

 

[Bruce3966]

George they are closed cell. I just wrapped them in heavy duty black plastic bags and wrapped the h*ll out of them with duct tape. The mess they make with all the static foam pieces is crazy. I'll strap them back up aft of the berths where they go.

I will only be sailing in Saginaw Bay on Lake Huron. Pretty big bay and they have 2 or 3 beautiful tall ships there all the time and tons of sailboats etc. so help will be around (including the Coast Guard). If I go over while learning so be it, I need a new work phone anyway. I have just heard some boats turtle quickly and others don't. Not sure about mine. The capsize ratio is high...I think 3.52.

I did read a story from a P165 owner who wrote Precision and said he capsized and the boat immediately turtled. I found that surprising. Oh and he was in 35 knot winds if I remember correctly. I won't be out in 35 knot winds. Probably will never be out in winds stronger than 20 knot....until I get really experienced any way and by that time I will probably move up to a larger boat.

 

[GeorgeB]

Bruce, are you referring to the Capsize Screening Formula? (beam/(disp/(.9*64))^.333). So your boat cannot compete in YRA Cat 1 Ocean Races. No big deal. Three things will turtle a boat - (large) wave action, shifting weight to the direction of the capsize and getting the sails underwater. As my 22 went over, I was releasing the mainsheet. I then stood on the side of the cockpit seat and reached past my G-F to release the jib sheet (she was kinda "frozen" on the leeward side.) I scampered back to the high side as the boat began to right herself. If you act quickly, you won't turtle. Keep a hand on the mainsheet when it is bowing like stink. Funny, the G-F didn't think it was too chivalrous of me to go for the jibsheet instead of her. I wonder what ever happened to her?

 

[Minnesail]

The big thing is to stop the down flooding (keeping the water out). On my Catalina 22, I did this by using a hasp to secure the lazarette lockers and I kept the hatch boards in and the slider closed when I went to "Condition W". This will keep most of the water out (I knocked down once in the Slot on San Francisco Bay).

This is off the topic of the thread, but you got knocked down in a Catalina 22? Wow! Were you tethered at all, or did you just hang on? Swing or fixed keel?

 

[Bruce3966]

"I wonder what ever happened to her?"

Love it...my sense of humor!

 

[GeorgeB]

Minne, this was back in the olden days before the internet (thank goodness, or I’d be hounded off this board for being totally unsafe and a danger to others.) Back then, we didn’t wear lifejackets or tethers (though, later, I did buy stanchions, lifelines and a stern pulpit). What I did wrong was staying too long at Sam’s in Tiburon, then beam reaching across the slot in midafternoon with four people in the cockpit. Either a wave rolled under us or a more significant wind gust hit us or a combination of the two. Went over in a heartbeat. Boom and mast head temporarily in the water. Water slipped into the cockpit but the companionway was clear of the water. The pin held the swing keel in place. The keel did make a big “thunk” sound. We found about an ankle’s height of water in the cabin when we got back to the slip. “Children, don’t try this at home!”

Bruce, don’t stress or over think this. When it gets windy, close the boards and slider, have the crew on the windward side and keep one hand on the mainsheet. And remember, what doesn’t kill you will eventually become a really good bar story.

 

[RichH]

A guesstimate ...... In all probability and IF this floatation was put in place by the builder, most likely this floatation was added to keep the boat level while filled with water .... so that the boat when swamped and filled, that the bow or stern wouldnt be vertical and that end totally submerged and in a pointing 'straight down' attitude. A lot of the larger 'hot' racing dinghy classes from the 70s and 80s had such 'floatation' ... just to keep them level in the water IF or when swamped.
Have you ever tried to bail out a boat when only the bow (or stern) was sticking out of the water?

 

[Bruce3966]

No for I have only owned several powerboats and only sailed a small cat as a teenager...capsized that all the time for fun. I'm leaving the foam in the 165.