[rbyham]

As you can see from my other thread on toilets, I was trying to bring back to life an old Groco manual compact toilet. After further exam, I decided at best I needed a rebuild kit. So I ordered from West Marine. As I started into the rebuild I discovered that the cam piece that moves when the handle is rotated for water direction was toast from age, corrosion, etc. So I took rebuild kit back as the little cam piece was not a part of the kit. I figured I was now at a point of buying a whole new pump. So working with WM staff I ordered what appeared in the catalog to be a whole new pump but today as I picked it up I learned it is only the pump housing with no moving or inner parts. Even the WM guy was surprised. Come to find out the whole pump assy is like $275 anywhere.

So now I am at a point of purchasing a whole new toilet and find that many are cheaper than Groco. Probably would go for a Jabsco full-size (instead of compact) at around $175 delivered. Or I see the Johnsons at a few bucks less.

My previous experience with toilets has been all RV or portapotti. So this is a new world for me. Here are some questions:

1. Do I really need to buy a whole new unit and toss a perfectly good ceramic Groco bowl and seat?

2. If I find a pump of another maker sold separately for reasonable rate are these largely interchangeable and so will work with my Groco bowl and seat?

3. I wonder if I can find a more extensive rebuild kit but by the time I get it and do all the work I am close to the price of a new Jabsco.

4. Anyone want to try to talk me into something electric with macerator? I have 30 gal holding tank and system that otherwise is all in place and will probably work fine. Or is KISS the best way to go with these manuals?

One positive thing out of all this is that I have torn the Groco down to tiniest parts and so already see how it goes together and what I would do to address future problems. I guess that is a plus.

 

[harmonic]

Have bailed out a few electric toilets so cant recommend them outlet hose too small,Jabsco make a great product I would buy a new one of them very simple and robust,just dont use too much paper and no tampons!

 

[Bradhamlet]

I did the rebuild kit from Groco over the summer, it went well, works great no leaks. However the new Jabsco are very economical. You might want to contact Groco directly about a part and they were helpful in the rebuilding process. They had a few ways to make it go smoothly. However it was as gross as you might assume.

Brad
Lancer 36

 

[Faster]

The Jabscos do a decent job at a price that almost makes them 'disposable'..

That said, I do think there's value in a more high-end head that's kept in shape and treated to the occasional rebuild kit. Especially if the mounts don't translate to a direct bolt-in replacement every time.

(Happy long term Raritan PHII user)

 

[capttb]

I've replaced the Jabsco with a Raritan PHII on every boat I've had, somehow not a single bolt hole has ever lined up, a little Marinetex and no one notices.
I'd throw a Jabsco away and replace it before I'd rebuild it, the difference between a rebuild kit and a new Jabsco isn't worth my labor.
I don't mean to beat up on the Jabsco, at $100 they really are surprisingly hardy, but seems like you have to fuss with "head lube" and such more often.

 

[SJ34]

Had a groco, bought parts to attempt repairs on said groco. And even though most brands look like they were made at the same factory, alas the parts don't interchange. Sometimes parts within a mfg's product line won't interchange one Gen to the next.
A very smart guy told me once to just toss the old groco in the dumpster and buy a new Jabsco cheapo for $125. That was some of the best boating advice I've ever received. I figured if I had to do that every 3-4yrs it would be money well spent. That was 10yrs ago and I've been lucky that rebuild kits are still available. When their not, it will go to the dumpster and I won't shed a tear

 

[svHyLyte]

As you can see from my other thread on toilets, I was trying to bring back to life an old Groco manual compact toilet. After further exam, I decided at best I needed a rebuild kit. So I ordered from West Marine. As I started into the rebuild I discovered that the cam piece that moves when the handle is rotated for water direction was toast from age, corrosion, etc. So I took rebuild kit back as the little cam piece was not a part of the kit. I figured I was now at a point of buying a whole new pump. So working with WM staff I ordered what appeared in the catalog to be a whole new pump but today as I picked it up I learned it is only the pump housing with no moving or inner parts. Even the WM guy was surprised. Come to find out the whole pump assy is like $275 anywhere.
....

Why not simply contact Groco directly to see if the cam assembly you need can be purchased separately? You might take a look at GROCO MARINE PRODUCTS

 

[123456Wannasail654321]

You could sell it for parts on e-bay craigslist etc....It obviously has value for that at least.

 

[capt jgwinks]

It's been said on one of these threads that the Jabsco head "isn't worth the s**t you put in it". Jabsco's the only brand I've ever had in a boat and don't see anything wrong with them. If the missing piece for the Groco can't be replaced, I'd just put in a Jabsco. Doubt you'd find another brand pump that would fit without having fabricate an adaptor or something.

 

[sailak]

The Groco in my boat lasted 16 years. While it could have been rebuilt I didn't want to waste a short season waiting for it so I elected to buy a new Groco. Very happy with it, very happy with the the tech support from Groco.

 

[RichH]

1. Do I really need to buy a whole new unit and toss a perfectly good ceramic Groco bowl and seat? NO

2. If I find a pump of another maker sold separately for reasonable rate are these largely interchangeable and so will work with my Groco bowl and seat? YES, mostly

FWIW - most standard manually operated marine heads can be totally rebuilt to MUCH MUCH better quality and service life by simply saving the old bowl and seat and replace just the old pump assembly with a Raritan LBA replacement pump assembly.
Raritan LBA Upgrade for almost any toilet

 

[rdw]

I would be tempted to do a composting head if I were having to replace stuff.
Have you looked into that?
rdw

 

[hopcar]

I'm guessing you have a Groco HF toilet with the pump beside the bowl. I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to throw it out as it has a very sturdy bronze base where most of the other similar toilets have plastic bases. Any good marine store should be willing to order the part you need even if they don't have it in stock.

Groco customer service is excellent. If you have any questions, give them a call.

If you do decide to change brands of toilets, you'll be able to reuse your bowl but not the bronze base. Both Jabsco and Raritan bases will fit that bowl.

 

[Boogie Nights]

1. Do I really need to buy a whole new unit and toss a perfectly good ceramic Groco bowl and seat?

2. If I find a pump of another maker sold separately for reasonable rate are these largely interchangeable and so will work with my Groco bowl and seat?

3. I wonder if I can find a more extensive rebuild kit but by the time I get it and do all the work I am close to the price of a new Jabsco.

4. Anyone want to try to talk me into something electric with macerator? I have 30 gal holding tank and system that otherwise is all in place and will probably work fine. Or is KISS the best way to go with these manuals?

I have a Jabsco toilet on my 1989 yacht. It the original bowl and base. but It's had at least two replacement pump cylinders in that time. plus service kit annually.

The Jabsco is very cheap. the parts are fairly cheap and available worldwide.
bearing in mind the cheapness, this does mean that annual maintenance, pulling the thing apart to change the rubber valves is fraught with danger with regards snapping something plastic.
I just started an information page on the toilet issue boat owners face.
you are welcome to reference it, though I haven't included prices yet for parts, and it's a bit of a work in progress.

I have included a hand drawn diagram of my jabsco system with a seperate macerator behind the workings which is operated by a plunger button in the heads. It works by manually flushing the toilet into a holding tank, which the macerator then empties. (ideally when at sea)

Boogie Nights: The Throne Room

 

[SVAuspicious]

4. Anyone want to try to talk me into something electric with macerator? I have 30 gal holding tank and system that otherwise is all in place and will probably work fine. Or is KISS the best way to go with these manuals?

I suggest that in many ways an electric toilet IS keeping things simple.

I expected to fit a manual toilet on Auspicious. The customer service rep at the factory who counseled me through the specification process strongly recommended an electric toilet. There are fewer moving parts, maceration of all products coming out of the toilet reduces clogs, clearing clogs when they do occur is easier, maintenance is easier, you have the option of easily providing for (safely) switching between fresh and raw water flush, and reliability is higher.

The downside is that you are dependent on electrical power on the boat. On Auspicious with a big house bank, and engine and generator start battery, and an outboard start battery if we can't flush the toilet we have a whole lot of other problems. *grin*

The only clog in eight years was the result of a crew member who tried to use half a roll of toilet paper in one flush. *sigh* I cleared that in five minutes. Maintenance has been a service kit every three years or so and takes about fifteen minutes.

Recommended.

 

[rbyham]

I am still playing with the original Groco pump hoping to achieve a satisfactory level of rebuild. But I am very tempted on just dropping in a Jabsco. On the other hand I agree that the Groco base is heavier duty and solid. That and bolt holes not aligning are challenges for the Jabsco option. Lastly, I am still attracted to the electric/macerator option. I may drop back on this one and see how refit budget goes for the next month or so and if the money is there go electric. I am thinking the Admiral would find electric more to her liking and I would appreciate the potential lack of unclog work. I have never done any composting and while I have researched these and find them interesting, I am for some reason not drawn in that direction. Maybe with more experience of manuals down the road composting may present as more of an option.

For now, I have the Groco rebuild kit and missing cam part sitting on the cabin table. Just finished much larger job of in water replacement of shaft log, new packing rope, and new flange replacement yesterday so now I can focus on the head. All opinions are still welcome...

Funny this is the second boat I have bought and failed to catch the poor condition of shaft log/gland and packing nut. Oh well... seeing these more closely ahead of time would not have affected the purchase decision in either case nor the price more than maybe $100 cuz I buy cheap. .

 

[hellosailor]

After days of seeing questions about MANUAL TOILETS I finally realized this is all so lame.

Who cares about manual toilets, when there are so many fine AUTOMATIC ones that will jump out of the head compartment, gently and unobstrusively pull down your pants (or lift your skirt or kilt), take care of your business when it needs to be done, and then scurry aware and secure themselves AND your ordure, all automatically without any fuss?

Really, a manual toilet. Isn't that a throwback to the outhouse days? Are the Japanese and Koreans really the only ones who progressed beyond this? Y'all really still use hand-operated dumb toilets?

 

[rbyham]

Had some solid success with Groco rebuild today. Had two pumps, a bag of what looked like leftovers from an old rebuild kit as well as a newly received basic rebuild kit. It took a couple calls to very helpful Groco support but it all came together. Except for one thing. With the pump reassembled I decided to pull the pump cap which holds the 0-ring that creates suction. The o-ring was gone. Called Groco at 4:05pm and got a gal who has the $7 part coming on Monday. So next week should see it all bolted back on for testing. So for now, the price of a basic rebuild kit ($77) has me feeling pretty good. We shall see as it gets bolted up and tested.

 

[RobGallagher]

Raritan PHII seems to be a stout product. I have previous experience with Jabsco and Wilcox and my Raritan is much more expensive but seems to need fewer rebuilds (as I have not yet had to rebuild in three seasons and I have no idea if/when it ever was rebuilt).

That being said, one can install a new Jabsco in for nearly the same money and in much less time then rebuilding one. Plus Jabsco rebuilds never seem last as long as the original/new unit IMHO.

Raritan also flushes MUCH more volume.

I almost always use fresh water from the shower head to flush and it keeps the smell down.

 

[rbyham]

I am plumbed for either fresh or raw water. Will see which I prefer as things get back in place. My next big challenge is figuring out the status of a 30 gallon holding tank that has seen zero action for about 10 years. Anyone want to guess what I find when I send those first test flushed through?