[patrickrea]

I am going to be running a new traveller line on Eclipse. Currently it is 2 1/4" lines, one per side. The lines are just throat seized to the beckets. My plan is to replace it with just 1 line.

I was thinking that splicing onto the little tiny beckets would be a whole lot of grief due to the space involved and my stubby fingers. Tying a bowline on the line reduces the line strength by 50%. Do you think that the seizing is strong enough? I realize that in the old days, this is the way everything was done, but in the old days, ships went out to see with a much larger crew than just me and also ships went down an awful lot.

PS this is also how the thimble is attached to the main halyard. Seems to have held up well over time as the halyard is at least 5 years old. That is being replace by a little trick from the Farr 40s using a stopper ball.

 

[patrickrea]

No one has a comment?

 

[knothead]

No one has a comment?

Just saw it.

There is nothing in the world wrong with a seizing for certain jobs.
I've used seizings for lazyjacks systems and lots of other things for years.

Edit: I've seized plastic cleats to the shrouds for flag halyards. Held fine and much kinder to the wire.

 

[paulk]

You probably want a line that doesn't stretch in this application- such as dyneema. Quarter inch dyneema has a breaking strength of more than 5000 pounds. Even if a knot reduces the strength of the line by 50%, your traveller will be ripped out of the deck before a well-tied knot in the line gives. On our spinnaker halyards we tied a knot (instead of paying for $70 splices) and seized and sewed the ends to make sure they don't come out. No problems in the last five years, and having knots means we can reverse the halyards when they eventually become worn in some places, and have them last twice as long. K.I.S.S.

 

[patrickrea]

I've seized plastic cleats to the shrouds for flag halyards. Held fine and much kinder to the wire.

Okay, I really need to go back to basics on my rigging technique. It's been too long since I was a boyscout.

The seizing in the image above is pretty simple to accomplish but how did you seize a nylon cleat to the wire? I have a digitized version of "The Manual of Seamanship" from 1891 and I haven't seen anything in it yet.

 

[knothead]

Okay, I really need to go back to basics on my rigging technique. It's been too long since I was a boyscout.

The seizing in the image above is pretty simple to accomplish but how did you seize a nylon cleat to the wire? I have a digitized version of "The Manual of Seamanship" from 1891 and I haven't seen anything in it yet.

A seizing is a seizing. First I grooved the cleat where it goes against the wire and then a bunch of turns and then some frapping turns.
It can be seized in the middle if it has a hole or on each end if it doesn't.
A good strong needle and a palm help.

 

[patrickrea]

A seizing is a seizing. First I grooved the cleat where it goes against the wire and then a bunch of turns and then some frapping turns.
It can be seized in the middle if it has a hole or on each end if it doesn't.
A good strong needle and a palm help.

Okay, I'll have to try it out. A little practise in my chandlery (aka the basement mess my wife wats cleaned up) while all the white stuff is still on the ground.

 

[KeelHaulin]

Is that a small (low load rating) eye shackle on the attachment between the traveler and the mainsheet blocks? Wow that looks like it would easily fail in a strong blow or if you had an accidental gybe. I would splice any halyard; just no need to worry about losing your main halyard and possibly getting a torn sail. Take the time to learn to make good eye splices; it's not that difficult once you have practiced a bit.

 

[patrickrea]

That shackle is what was originally there when I bought the boat last year. There was alot of undersized, oversized and just plain wrong things on the boat. All easily and inexpensively fixed. The mooring lines were old halyards, the anchor rode is pile of c**p, I have commented on the electrical in other threads, genoa sheets are way oversized which mean it's nicer on the hands but thay had hardened so they were actually worse on the hands.

That shackle above was replaced with a larger shackle and actually put through the slot where it belongs. As you can see, the shackle plate to the traveller car above was literally bent by the loads on it due to putting the shackle in the place and then a hard gybe. I am having a friend cut me a new plate this winter.

My new lifelines will be Amsteel and will require 16 eyesplices that my life (and my wife's) will literally be depending on. I think that everyone should know how to splice a line. As Robert Heinlein said in one his books (paraphrasing slightly), "Every man should know how to use hand tools, plot a course, do math, cook a tasty meal and write a poem - specialization is for insects". I believe in simple systems, that is why I like the way the Farr 40 guys are doing their main halyards. Even the Wayfarer guys have been doing it for a while. I am not so much worried about weight aloft, as I am primarily a cruiser, but I love the simplicity of the system.

 

[arf145]

Whoa--I have questions.

For Patrickrea: What is a stopper ball?

For Knothead: So is seizing OK then in a traveller application like that? I'm replacing my traveler lines and was considering splices but the old was bowlines. Same with inside the boom for the reefing. Seizing does look neat. What are the guidelines for number of turns, overlap?

 

[knothead]

For Knothead: So is seizing OK then in a traveller application like that? I'm replacing my traveler lines and was considering splices but the old was bowlines. Same with inside the boom for the reefing. Seizing does look neat. What are the guidelines for number of turns, overlap?

I would think that in an application like that shown in the first post would be fine. It looks like a three or four to one purchase.
Obviously, it depends on the size of the sail and how well you do the seizing.

The seizing shown is more than long enough and it looks tight. That's the key, has to be tight. That's why frapping turns are often added. I don't see any there but he may not need it.
Something that also helps when seizing two parts of a line together like that is cross stitching them as well.

 

[patrickrea]

Stopper balls are little doodads that you put on the end of a line to _stop_ it from going through a block, grommet or what ever. Like putting a figure 8 in the end of a line except cleaner looking and easier to remove (sometimes). Colour coding the balls makes it easy to tell the new crew which one you want trimmed or let off.

 

[arf145]

What makes the ball stay on the end? Do you have to tie a fig 8 on the other side of the ball anyway?

 

[patrickrea]

What makes the ball stay on the end? Do you have to tie a fig 8 on the other side of the ball anyway?

Sorry, I meant to say that you just aput a little half hitch on the end of the line. Kind of like the end of the drawstring on a set of venetian blinds. Then tuck the whole thing into the hole on the ball. One neat and tidy little package.

 

[arf145]

Thanks. May I ask where you get these doodads?

 

[arf145]

Oh, and thanks for that info Knothead. I'm still intimidated on eye splices, so looking for alternatives where they aren't totally needed.

 

[patrickrea]

arf - Find knotheads videos on youtube. Great instructions.

The stopper balls should be available almost everywhere. I get mine at Fogh here in Toronto. I think I paid $2 for the largest one they have for my halyard.

 

[arf145]

Thanks Pat. Knothead's video on the end-to-end splice got me through one of those successfully. Still poking the eye splice with a long stick.

 

[sailingfool]

It isn't clear why you are changing your traveler controls - if the sole objective is to have one line, simply use a square knot to connect the ends of the existing lines and you have it. The traveler controls don't carry a lot of load, you don't need fancy line nor fancy knots...KISS and in this case, cheap.

 

[patrickrea]

It isn't clear why you are changing your traveler controls - if the sole objective is to have one line, simply use a square knot to connect the ends of the existing lines and you have it. The traveler controls don't carry a lot of load, you don't need fancy line nor fancy knots...KISS and in this case, cheap.

The reason for changing the line is pretty simple. I want to! But seriously, the current line has been in the weather to long and is starting to harden and get that powdery feeling. This makes it hard on the hands. Not to mention a little ugly. It's one of those cheap upgrades that doesn't require a new loan or spending 3 days on it.

In terms of load, you're right. The loads aren't that high. In 20kn of breeze, the vertical load to the mainsheet is roughly 1100lbs on the car. With my 4:1 system, that makes the load on the control line about 50lbs or so