[ssmith1627]

I just bought a Merit 25 and got it launched. I've tensioned the forestay to get the mast rake set between 16-18" with all of the shrouds fairly loose while I was doing it. Then I tensioned the cap shrouds and then the lowers and then the aft pair. But now even with the backstay adjuster completely loose the backstay seems pulled tight even with those turnbuckles adjusted out about as far as they'll go. So the forestay also seems very tight even with the backstay tension off.

Just curious if that's how it should be. The previous owner had just purchased all new standing rigging and gave them the old rigging to make it from. But I'm concerned maybe the backstay is a few inches short and that's what is creating more tension than there should be.

Thanks for your feedback !

Steve

 

[SchockT]

Your best bet would be to find a Merit 25 class association for model specific tuning guides.

Typically when you are tuning a rig you tune the shrouds first, to make sure the mast is in column, before you adjust the rake. If you are adjusting rake based on hanging a weight from the masthead and measuring where it hangs at deck level it is critical al to make sure the boat is level fore and aft.

I guess it is possible that the rigger screwed up and made the new rigging too short, but that wouldn't be much of a rigger since they know how important precision is.

More likely your forestay is too tight.

It is really hard to tell anything from one picture, particularly the angle you shot it from.

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[paulk]

Found this: MERIT 25 CLASS RULES which suggests that owners can add toggles to the forestay. Where did you get the directive for between 16 to 18" of rake? As Schock suggests, measuring rake in the water is tricky. On a boat this size the weight of the measurer being in one place or another will screw up the results.

 

[ssmith1627]

Your best bet would be to find a Merit 25 class association for model specific tuning guides.

Typically when you are tuning a rig you tune the shrouds first, to make sure the mast is in column, before you adjust the rake. If you are adjusting rake based on hanging a weight from the masthead and measuring where it hangs at deck level it is critical al to make sure the boat is level fore and aft.

I guess it is possible that the rigger screwed up and made the new rigging too short, but that wouldn't be much of a rigger since they know how important precision is.

More likely your forestay is too tight.

It is really hard to tell anything from one picture, particularly the angle you shot it from.

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk

Thanks very much for your message. This is the only document I found beyond the class rules that someone else just posted as well:

Untitled 1 (epsails.com)

But that brings a very good point up that I honestly hadn't considered. The boat is in the water but I was on the boat and someone else was on the boat. How do I judge that the weight distribution is right and that even though the boat is floating that it is "level". Judge by the waterline fore and aft ? Would that tell me if I had the boat in balance fore and aft ? Any thoughts on that aspect ? That seems so basic that I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't factored it in.

 

[SHNOOL]

tuning guides from epsails are usually spot on.
16-18 inches of rake (forgive me if you know this or we said it), but shoudl be measured at the gooseneck, as in distance halyard is away from the mast at the gooseneck. Seems like a lot for that boat, but OK. Is it possible you don't have enough rake?

I agree with you the length of the backstay could be in question, if it hasn't ever been used on the boat, then it truly is an unknown.

This is when I say maybe now is a good time to convert the backstay to synthetic and use a cascaded style instead of the OD pinch.

 

[paulk]

The problem measuring rake while afloat is getting the boat level. Making sure the boat is floating on its waterline might seem like the obvious solution. But what if it's one inch higher at the bow than the stern? (Can you really tell that precisely from the dock?) That could throw the measurement, coming from the top of the mast, off by quite a bit. As could you getting back on board the boat after getting off to see if the waterline was level. The best solution afloat would be to bring a carpenter's level (3' or longer) on board with you and to find a flat place parallel to the waterline to put it on. This is likely a bunk or salon table below - YMMV.
As we see, determining rake by measuring the distance between a masthead-hoisted plumbob and the gooseneck is tricky. On 505 dinghies they measure the distance from the top of the main halyard to the bottom of the transom, midships. This avoids the entire "level" problem with a target length. Once you have the right amount of rake (whatever it is that seems to be the fastest), you could take a similar measurement and not have to worry about bringing a carpenter's level in your toolkit.

 

[SHNOOL]

It's not really hard to do on a keelboat. Is your boat on its waterline? If it is then the boat is "boat level," as designed. Bow high or stern high you need to move some things around to level your boat.

Once you level the boat, stand AT the mast, not next to it, not behind it, forward, with you looking aft, the mast splitting your eyes. Right in front of the mast. When you are standing at the mast have a crew member note waterline, adjust your weight until your waterline is level. Then measure rake. Next we'll complain about wind, and waves. Yep, you need to have a calm light air day.

For the record measuring rake on a trailer is also quite silly because ground is rarely ever dead level, and even when it is most boats don't travel dead level either, the S2 travels nose up.

As the skipper you should be balancing your boat in weight as well as rig, so I made the assumption that was already done. The Merit is large enough that unless you are far forward or far aft, your own weight at the mast should not be significant enough to very the rake measurement far.

We had an S2 7.9 inboard that was converted to outboard model. The weight difference of the boat was close to 300lbs. It was very obvious when you looked at the waterline. But even with that, the boat's waterline sat level with the water, just further away from it. The inboard was heavier than the outboard, but it was also further inboard, which is why the boat was still level.

Unless your boat is severely unbalanced fore and aft, I doubt your rake is so far off to make your backstay not work, its more likely the backstay is too short. Sounds like you'd have to have your rake out by 2-4 inches.

 

[ssmith1627]

It's not really hard to do on a keelboat. Is your boat on its waterline? If it is then the boat is "boat level," as designed. Bow high or stern high you need to move some things around to level your boat.

Once you level the boat, stand AT the mast, not next to it, not behind it, forward, with you looking aft, the mast splitting your eyes. Right in front of the mast. When you are standing at the mast have a crew member note waterline, adjust your weight until your waterline is level. Then measure rake. Next we'll complain about wind, and waves. Yep, you need to have a calm light air day.

For the record measuring rake on a trailer is also quite silly because ground is rarely ever dead level, and even when it is most boats don't travel dead level either, the S2 travels nose up.

As the skipper you should be balancing your boat in weight as well as rig, so I made the assumption that was already done. The Merit is large enough that unless you are far forward or far aft, your own weight at the mast should not be significant enough to very the rake measurement far.

We had an S2 7.9 inboard that was converted to outboard model. The weight difference of the boat was close to 300lbs. It was very obvious when you looked at the waterline. But even with that, the boat's waterline sat level with the water, just further away from it. The inboard was heavier than the outboard, but it was also further inboard, which is why the boat was still level.

Unless your boat is severely unbalanced fore and aft, I doubt your rake is so far off to make your backstay not work, its more likely the backstay is too short. Sounds like you'd have to have your rake out by 2-4 inches.

It's conversations like this that bring out what I know and don't know. It all makes a lot of sense and I'm absorbing it. I've been sailing for the past 18 months. A little late to the party here. Very much appreciate the feedback. It helps it all sink in so I can do this setup in the right order. I'll report back when I've made more progress !

 

[paulk]

It's conversations like this that bring out what I know and don't know.

Or what other posters know or don't know. One says measuring rake afloat is somewhat difficult, and the next says it's not hard to do. Take your pick!