SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
What sailboats being produced today are blue water sailable? I just want to take a peek at the design differences from older boats to the new modern ones. Preferably in the 25-30 foot range. Thank you!
 

·
Bombay Explorer 44
Joined
·
3,619 Posts
Very few boats produced in that size range that are even offshore capable never mind blue water.

Nowadays people think Gunboat 60 for a RTW.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,466 Posts
There are very few boats with that size that we could call bluewater boats. In the general view a bluewater boat is a boat specifically designed for offshore work. I would prefer to call it small boats with an offshore potential.

There are not many because since the introduction of the RCD to be able to sail offshore they have to pass the criteria for class A boats and few boats with that size (25 to 28ft) have the conditions to be approved. If old boats were submitted I believe that almost all would fail too.

For being really small (25/28) and be able to pass the criteria they have to be unsinkable. The smaller I know off approved as a Class A boat is this one:

Interesting Sailboats: DJANGO 7.70 on a CIRCUMNAVIGATION

These two are favorites of many:

Interesting Sailboats: RM 890, ONE OF THE BEST RM EVER


probably you have noticed that they are all beamy boats. Yes they are beamy but with a low CG and a good AVS. Being beamy and with a low CG is a sure way to increase overall stability that in a small boat is never too much. They are also heavily influenced by mini solo racers and are light and fast boats.

Regarding more traditional type of boats I would suggest you look at the Dehler 29 that is one of the boats that have been more time in production among the ones that are made by mass production builders. A great boat.

http://www.dehler.com/#/gb/29/exterieur/

Or to the more modern Winner 9.0 (I don't know if they have managed to approve it as class A)

Sail-World.com : Yacht Feature: Winner 9.00, 'European Yacht of the Year' nomination

I believe that among the two type the superior overall stability and better dynamic stability will make the first one more suitable but again, I would not call them bluewater boats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the responses. I figured there wouldn't be many in that size range but thanks for the provided links. I do some reading. =)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
If you can pack light you might want to look at the Mini Transat boats. They come up on the market sometimes. They're fast and certainly seaworthy for their size. Personally, I'd go for a Dana 24 in the same size range.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,366 Posts
Pacific Seacraft...Cape Dory
 

·
Registered
Corsair 24
Joined
·
4,594 Posts
its a weird question for sure

I have often wondered if simply designs of yesteryear made with newer materials would simply become the bluewater boats of today...

I think there is a point where one can no longer advance sailing in cruising terms...or maybe Im wrong...

are people in 50 years going to be on foils, singlehanding 100foot trimarans...as standard?

maybe? will that be considered bluewater or what?

dont know but these questions always leave more things unansrwered...

honestly I have no idea what new boats or designs are considered bluewater...these days(and im young)

in any case
 

·
Not Finished Yet
Joined
·
829 Posts
What sailboats being produced today are blue water sailable? I just want to take a peek at the design differences from older boats to the new modern ones. Preferably in the 25-30 foot range. Thank you!
When I think "modern ocean boat" I think long, narrow, and light with the ability fly plenty of sail. Most boats designed for passages built today in your price range were designed 20+ years ago, so are not really "modern" in the sense you probably mean.

Here is one that is close to your size and much more "modern": Hallberg-Rassy - Yachts - Aft Cockpit Boats
 

·
美国华人, 帆船
Joined
·
2,528 Posts
honestly I have no idea what new boats or designs are considered bluewater...these days(and im young)

in any case
An old salt once said. There is no blue water boat, only blue water sailors. If building a few more feet and adding a few more tons to the boat, it will make us safer. I don't think so.

To think of it, I don't even know how to define a blue water sailor. Just like studying for an exam, you study and study over again. There is never a point that you will say - Hey that is enough. In the storm, there are so many variables, You just can't say, I am ready; hit me hard. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,220 Posts
Bristol Channel cutters at 28' are considered by many to be the ideal small blue water boat. Many have done extraordinary passages and some the clock. They are back in production by Cape George Yachts.
Had a PSC 34' in the past. She never made me nervous. They are still in production down in N.C.
Had a small Cape Dory ( one a 25' another a 30'). Fine boat but not something I'd do blue water in. A bit squirrelly in strong wind when on broad reach to run. Used to drop the main >25-30kt. off the wind.
 

·
Registered
Corsair 24
Joined
·
4,594 Posts
When I think "modern ocean boat" I think long, narrow, and light with the ability fly plenty of sail. Most boats designed for passages built today in your price range were designed 20+ years ago, so are not really "modern" in the sense you probably mean.

Here is one that is close to your size and much more "modern": Hallberg-Rassy - Yachts - Aft Cockpit Boats
does tha5 boat have a nice bridgedeck to prevent flooding in following seas?

I see a stepped open transom...

I cruised on a steel boat with this type of a design extensively...and in big waves water would rush in...and we would have to barricade it...now nothing happened as there was a nice step that prevented water ingressing into the cabin and scoops too, but Im assuming these designs have a lot of buoyancy aft as noticed by the high deck area aft...

anywhoo
 

·
Registered
Corsair 24
Joined
·
4,594 Posts
I would put it down to the designers intent. Did they design it for cruising or for day sailing? Does it have enough tankage and storage for cruising? Is it comfortable enough to live on?

ok Ill play this game...

what has changed then in the last 200 plus years? or say the last 50 from wood to glass...

to be considered blue water design and modern?

basically I think there is a ceiling that doesnt change...

a boat, a keel, sails...buoyancy...

some things cant be improved upon at least drastically with technology today...we still rely on the same scnearios and formulas and basic design

thats why I commented on what consitutes modern blue water cruising or what it will be in 50-100 years

will all boats be foilers, will all boats be made in carbn fiber or othermaterials?

will all boats cruise really fast

will all boats have buttons to raise and lower sails as standard therefore making it easier and SAFER to cruise in a performance way? in bigger boats?

looking at that rassy, I like it but its hard to say objectively that design wise or intentio wise its much different than older boats...

its still a keel a rudder a hull and sails...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
does tha5 boat have a nice bridgedeck to prevent flooding in following seas?

I see a stepped open transom...

I cruised on a steel boat with this type of a design extensively...and in big waves water would rush in...and we would have to barricade it...now nothing happened as there was a nice step that prevented water ingressing into the cabin and scoops too, but Im assuming these designs have a lot of buoyancy aft as noticed by the high deck area aft...

anywhoo
The previous model (HR31 built from 1992-2009) had a closed transom and a more overhang at the bow.
 

·
Not Finished Yet
Joined
·
829 Posts
or say the last 50 from wood to glass...

to be considered blue water design and modern?
I am certainly no design expert, but my amateur answer would be:

Last 50 years:
- Transitioned from all full keels to mostly fin keels
- Transitioned from barn-door rudders to balanced rudders. Transom/keel hung to combination of skeg hung or fin rudders.
- Displacement has gone down considerably.
- LWL has gone much longer for a given LOD.
- Roaches have gotten fuller
- Beam has gotten wider
- Have added sugar scoops / walk through transoms
- Have gone to from spit rigs to sloop rigs on most boats < 45 feet.
 

·
Registered
Corsair 24
Joined
·
4,594 Posts
yup

BUT more blue water? better?
 

·
Not Finished Yet
Joined
·
829 Posts
yup

BUT more blue water? better?
You can tell from my choice of boat that I do not think so (in this size range). But for OPs desire to compare "modern" boats to boats of some past date, I expect that is what will be the most noticeable. Of course the other one is that boats have gotten way bigger, which is why there are tons of good old cruising boats 25-30 feet, but almost none designed in the past 10 years. Even Island Packet does not build under 36' these days.

I guess it is almost impossible to market a 200K, 30' boat when there are so many good ones on the used market to be had at a fraction of that price.
 

·
Registered
Corsair 24
Joined
·
4,594 Posts
wow didnt know they didnt even build under 36

its interesting to note the changes, modern blue water...it will be interesting to see how sailors change and how they will sail with different boats in the same oceans...

honestly I dont see modern boats being designed for offshore cruising or for the cruising market

I see the whole bigger, and beamier and more compfortable but that hardly makes a boat more blue water friendly
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top