[Bruce3966]

1. Best free online sailing course?

2. Do you think lifelines are that important on a 16 footer? I mean you can still easily go right over lifelines and in the drink right?

3. Is there a good grill to attach to a boat without bow railings like the P16.5? I would love to be able to grill on the boat.

4. The boat I purchased has lazyjacks but these I believe are just for the main sail and not the job even though I hear others speak about using lazyjacks for the jib?

5. From those experienced, if you could give one good piece of advise for a newbie sailer, what would that be overall and what would the best piece of advise you would give a newbie for his first sail?

6. Is there a cheap self inflatable raft abailable anywhere? The only ones I can find online are full survival rafts for $1000's.

*More questions will come I am sure.

 

[krisscross]

2. Run a good safety line along the boat you can clip on when underway.
3. Don't complicate things too much. Grill on shore.
5. Having too much sail for the weather is asking for trouble. If you know an experienced sailor that can teach you how to sail on your own boat, that is priceless.

 

[Sixpak]

1. Online course? Dunno about that but Youtube videos were great for figuring out a few basics. Nothing like having a real sailor aboard to show you the ropes.

2. I have a 23 footer and no lifelines. I wear a pfd when alone.

3. I wouldn't grill on a 16 footer. Bring a habachi and cook on it on a nice sandy beach.

4. Dunno

5. Reef early. Find a someone to teach you some basic sailing skills. Learn to tie a bowline with your eyes closed.

6. Watch craigslist.

 

[SHNOOL]

The P165 is a cool little keelboat... I am with the others, in that adding a grill to it, is asking for trouble.

6. I wouldn't bother with a raft your boat draws approximately 18 inches of water... you can anchor in places where you can almost get out and walk.

4. The closest equivalency I can think of are lines run from the lifelines to the toerail to catch the jib/genoa when dropped. You might be able to take KrissKross's suggestion for #2, and fancy something up similar.. You can see how mine are rigged in this picture of mast raising...

2. I really don't think lifelines are important to a 16 footer, in fact they may very well complicate things for you (smaller foredeck means less room, less room means tripping over lifelines in the way)... just my $0.02

5. This one is tough, because there are lots of important things to digest just starting out. I have to say for a starter keelboat, the P165 is a great choice, it's quick, stable, forgiving, but also pretty rugged. It's no slug, that being said it should punish you a bit for poor handling, but get you home to brag about it nicely. So there is my advice. The boat will VERY likely handle more than you can. Keep your gear (running/standing rigging) in good shape, and try to push yourself a little bit once you get a feel for it in light air. For now light air should be 10mph or lower... until you get the basics down. If you see storm clouds a coming, tuck tail and run for cover (for now).

Good luck and post up some pictures of your toy when you get a few. Many years ago the P165 (fixed wing keel) or P18 (shoal/centerboard) was my "ideal" step up boat. Came close more times than I can count buying one.

 

[travellerw]

1. Don't know of any "Free" online courses. There is a couple of introductory navigation courses. You can checkout NauticEd, they have a free sail trim course. Once you complete that, you can sign up for the other courses. THEY ARE WELL WORTH THE MONEY and not super expensive (like $25/per)

 

[jwing]

1. Buy a basic sailing book. Read it some. Go sailing. Re-read the part you read before. Read some more. Go sailing. Repeat as many times as you enjoy. Each time out practice the skills you already know and try to practice a new skill that you read about.

2. Lifelines on a 16 footer will be not worth the expense and the future maintenance problems/upkeep. In fact, your boat's deck is so narrow that lifelines will hinder your passage forward on deck and will be a tripping hazard, so they will actually be more dangerous than not having them.

3. I agree with krisscross. Cook ashore. I doubt you would ever try to cook with a bow-mounted grill after your first attempt.

4. See my reply in your other thread, regarding jib downhaul.

5. As a beginner, got out on light air days only; stay in on moderate or stronger days until you have enough confidence.

Lots of people start out on small boats like Sunfish and Hobie Cats so when they capsize, it's no big deal to re-right the boat, climb back in and continue having fun. But they do learn what makes a boat capsize. You would do well to borrow/rent a Sunfish or similar boat with which to make some mistakes. Lots of sailing clubs have sailing classes that use such boats for teaching.

Make sure your motor is reliable. If you have some maneuvering to do before you get out in open water, keep your sails down, and put your motor in reverse so as to pull your boat through the obstacles. This may not apply to you if you have experience with steering an outboard-powered boat.

6. You don't have enough boat to carry a life raft. Wear a top-quality PFD, and carry new, high-quality throwable floats.

 

[titustiger27]

Best thing for me..

1) when I bought my first boat the dealer gave me a lesson --- actually he had some young guy (but older than me at the time) take me out. He helped me rig the boat and showed me a few things, then let me sail.

It was about an hour, but not trying on my own was great. I am sure if online videos were around, it wouldn't have matched. It was the best thing...

As many pointed out... start slow. If you pick calm days and work up, it is better than thinking a lifeline will save you, when you don't know what you are doing. Better to not fall out of the boat because you know what you are doing.

One of the things I had in the first year was I sailed on a river that was less than a mile across (you know know it --- Maumee River). I would go out a couple times a week...sailing up river, so, if needed, I could drift back to the launch.

Now that I look back one of the best things about this spot for sailing was I was never far from shore... not sure how safe I was, but it made it so I always felt comfortable.

My guess when it comes to a raft, your boat probably has positive flotation and will not sink... If you think you need something what about a boogie board you can swim to shore with.

The book idea that jwing presented is the best... read, do, read/realize. Time and time again I have done this... I couldn't figure out why the boat wasn't performing.. then the book explained.

Last thing for a newbie.. or anyone I would guess: A check list.

do you have - Sails, rudder, PDFs
did you plug all holes
put down the keel
on and on.

More than once I have backed the boat to the launch and realized I had not taken the straps off.

 

[gedaggett]

Bruce, I replied to your other thread before seeing this one so to avoid being to redundant I will just say this. If you want I will go out with you on your first sail and help you do a shake down on the boat and show you how to sail her. I am in Michigan often as I work on 3 boats that are in our fleet in St. Joseph and will be up in Holland frequently.

As for the others I think they have been adequately covered by others posts.

Regards,

Gary

 

[chuck5499]

Suggestion - go take the ASA 101 course if you truely want to learn and have a great sailing season this summer. Or read try and spend the summer trying to learn.

Did you learn to drive by reading about it on line or in a book?

 

[Bruce3966]

Bruce, I replied to your other thread before seeing this one so to avoid being to redundant I will just say this. If you want I will go out with you on your first sail and help you do a shake down on the boat and show you how to sail her. I am in Michigan often as I work on 3 boats that are in our fleet in St. Joseph and will be up in Holland frequently.

As for the others I think they have been adequately covered by others posts.

Regards,

Gary

Gary I might just take you up on that. That is a very nice offer.

 

[MarkCK]

2. I have a 20 foot boat with lifelines. They are pretty much pointless as far as I am concerned. The newer models of my boat don't have them for good reason.

5. Go out on a light air day. Only put up the main first and only add raise the jib when you get comfortable with the main. Don't bring along someone just to have company. Make sure they are someone that can help you out and follow orders. It's no fun being a beginner and not knowing what you are doing and the person with you is freaking out.

 

[Bruce3966]

What a great community--sailing. I have owned many things where I use a forum to gain knowledge and I have never experienced such politeness and help on a forum such as this. I truly appreciate everybody's input. I am sure I will have a million more questions going forward. I am now 54 years old, all 3daughters are almost done with college and out of the house so now its my time to get back on the water. I have owned many boats but never a sailboat. I am done with power boats and now want to enjoy sailing. I lived on a lake in Minnesota as a child and my father bought a 14 foot sailboat for us to play with on the lake. We would capsize it all the time for fun but we never really grasped the art of sailing.

I have been checking into slips in Michigan for I would love to be able to leave it at a slip for the ease of just driving there, loading, checking everything and going. For those who know Michigan well, things on the west side (Lake Michigan) are twice the cost of things on the East side (Lake Huron). There are slips on Saginaw Bay (East side) for $700 for the year with shore power, water (not that I would need these) and showers etc however, there is a 2 mile 8 foot deep canal you must go up to get to the bay. That might bother me however, it's like Florida. Some of those people have a 2 hour trolling time to get to the ocean. Not sure what I want to do but I know I don't want o pay $2500 for a slip for just 5 months (unless I win the lotto). I love learning new htings and I always study whatever I want to learn. I am not one of those type just to say, "Oh I'll figure it out". I need to know it and know it well. I am sure I will be taking a sailing class and probably my wife also. I just wish the cold and snow would leave and now!

 

[Bruce3966]

2. I have a 20 foot boat with lifelines. They are pretty much pointless as far as I am concerned. The newer models of my boat don't have them for good reason.

5. Go out on a light air day. Only put up the main first and only add raise the jib when you get comfortable with the main. Don't bring along someone just to have company. Make sure they are someone that can help you out and follow orders. It's no fun being a beginner and not knowing what you are doing and the person with you is freaking out.

That was exactly my plan. Even after studying for the next 2+ months, I was thinking the same thing. Just go out, raise the main sail and work with that for awhile before deploying the jib. I am lucky and have a wife that adores sailing and isn't afraid to jump around the boat and help. She will probably have me as her little mate within a few weeks. Happy wife, happy life!

 

[gedaggett]

Where are you going to be sailing out of mostly?

 

[Bruce3966]

I think that will mainly depend on if I get a slip or not. If I don't get a slip it could possibly be a new area each time. We all know how nice a slip would be. Hard to turn down a slip for $700 on Saginaw Bay even if there is a 2 mile canal to go down to get to the bay. That 2 miles could be my time to think on how I could talk my wife into wearing a thong and lowering the jib for me.

The way I see it is this, if I had to trailer it somewhere every weekend, it would be well over an hour hooking it up to the truck, upon arrival raising the mast and doing everyting else needed and then launching it, that would be way over the amount of time (45 minutes) to travel down the canal to the open bay--$700 for the slip and $125/year for liability and comp insurance..pretty cheap. Thoughts on the slip and canal--any concerns?

Saginaw Bay is known for it's sailing and I assume it's because it's protected a tad from the higher winds of Lake Huron. A lot of time I will just be anchored and relaxing in the cockpit, swimming or kayaking (I was going to ask what the effect on the boat would be in towing kayaks--if possible).

 

[gedaggett]

I was in Michigan City Indiana for a a couple years and had a 1 mile trek up Trail Creek to my slip/ramp. There were days when it was nice but there were more days when I would have rather been sailing that hour than motoring and waiting for a bridge life.
One other option is to keep it in a marina with a ramp on the trailer with the mast up. Many places will cut their slip rates in half halfway through the season and allow you to pay the difference from your on the hard storage rates and then you have a slip for the remainder of the season for very little extra money. I did that twice and it worked out great.

 

[Bruce3966]

That might not be a bad idea. I am just hung on the fact that I would have to unstrap and launch every single time. That alone right there would take a half an hour by the time you do everything...time flies faster than we think. I have attached a photo of the marina and the canal out to Saginaw Bay. It's going to be hard for me to turn this down for $700 a year with water, power, and showers etc.

 

[jwing]

One other option is to keep it in a marina with a ramp on the trailer with the mast up.

This is what I do. For me it is the best combination of cost, convenience, and low maintenance. I know I wouldn't sail as much if I had to step/unstep my mast for each outing. Dry storage is much less expensive than a slip, plus I don't have to worry about my boat sinking or growing an aquaculture garden on the hull.

It takes me about ten minutes to get the boat in the water, same getting it back to its parking spot. The remaining set-up and stow times would be the same if I was tied to a slip.

 

[westsailpatti]

#3 you could make a single stanchion that's removable .

 

[gedaggett]

#3 you could make a single stanchion that's removable .

removable stanchion is not a bad Idea but if you are to add lifelines and stanchions you are going to need to reinforce the through deck mounting with a couple aluminum plates on the back side to spread out the load or the first time you slip and shift your weight onto the life line you will run the risk of cracking your deck. The boat was not designed to carry that force in a small area of the deck so some engineering will be required.