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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Things I want to avoid on my next offshore boat - furling mainsail, centerboard, gasoline engine, extra small 'seaworthy' cockpit, unprotected spade rudder, cored hull (below the waterline), full keel and traveler in the cockpit...

The more I look into older Morgan 382,383,384s and the Morgan 42s, the more I think they may be exactly what I'm looking for.

Question....what other older designs might I be overlooking that also fit my criteria?

In addition to the 'avoid items' listed above - I want 38' to 42' (could go 44' but rather not and maybe down to 37' but no less), purchase price less than $100k to be offshore seaworthy for a total of no more than $100k outlay. Offshore means St Augustine to Bermuda a couple times a year.

So help plz....what other older designs am I overlooking?

Thanks
 

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Well there are tons of boats in that price range. I am a bit confused as I can understand wanting to avoid furling mainsail, and full keel (not that many boats actually have a full keel anyway) but why would you want to avoid a seaworthy cockpit? I would look for a post blister Valiant, Perhaps an Island Packet (I have some concerns on construction on them), Pacific Seacraft, Bristol 38.5, Wauquiez, Caliber, Contest, Corbin, Hallberg-Rassy, Malo, Najad, even Tartan. Take a look at the offshore boat list, lots on there can be had for under 100,000. I think I would choose just about any boat on my list before a Morgan. Not that I don't like Morgans, just like the others better. Some on my list might be over 100,000 but most not.

forgot the offshore list:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/251474-post6.html
 

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malyea,
The Morgan 383/384 is at the top of my list. Joined by the CS40, Pearson 424 sloop, & Cal 40. As with all "older" boats, there are age related things to look for & consider. The newer (90s) Bene & Jeanne boats in that length range are attractive as well. Maybe even a Catalina. Good luck with your search!
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
but why would you want to avoid a seaworthy cockpit?
Probably poor wording on my part (...just ask my wife...I have a knack).

I want a cockpit of enough length to be able to stretch out (min 6') on either side seat.

A number of 'traditional' blue water designs confine the crew to hanging their legs into a bathtub size cockpit and napping on the cockpit sole curled in the fetal position.

With an appropriate bridge deck and a quick draining cockpit, I'll gladly trade small cockpit volume for the ability to sleep stretched out in the cockpit.

That's my thinkin'...

Sure am looking hard at the Morgan 38's.....
 

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I only have one question: Why do do you want to avoid a full keel? If I were thinking of another offshore boat, I would want that full keel for the added stability and solid tracking advantage it seems to offer. All the rest of the stuff I agree. I have a Morgan 33 Out Island with a full keel, huge amount of room, both interior and cockpit, sails like a dream, tracks like it has autopilot, and rarely heels more than 15 degrees in 25 knot winds on a beam reach.

Gary :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Gary, it always warms my heart when I hear a boat owner speak well of their boat...kind of like a happy marriage. Like most folks, I'm of the opinion that every boat is a compromise to one degree or another...more so when we ask a boat to do more than one or two things well. For me, I don't want a full keel for all the 'standard' pro/con reasons but I am very happy for those that do ;-)
 

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I would want that full keel for the added stability and solid tracking advantage it seems to offer. All the rest of the stuff I agree. I have a Morgan 33 Out Island with a full keel, huge amount of room, both interior and cockpit, sails like a dream, tracks like it has autopilot, and rarely heels more than 15 degrees in 25 knot winds on a beam reach.
Gary :cool:
Gary,

Just for the record, a full keel does not inherently offer a bit of added stability. And a full keel does not necessarily result in 'solid tracking'. From a design standpoint the reason that a full keel is no longer seen as the ideal cruising keel has to do with the problem with being able to produce enough stability to allow the boat to stand up to an efficient sailplan that is powerful enough to overcome the increased drag from the keel. There are work arounds but they come at a price in terms of some mix being harder to handle, especially in changing conditions, or less carrying capacity.

The reason that your boat does not heel much is that it has an exceptionally wide beam and therefore a lot of form stability, and very little sail area (SA/D less than 14) for its weight and drag. As a result your heel angle that has nothing to do with the shape of your keel. You would actually heel less if you had less drag.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 

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while true

almost all real full keelers track much better than a narrow long fin and spade, but it has more to do with the rudder than anything

certain points of sail make this abundantly clear when comparing boats

just sayin
 

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Ericson 38 & 38-200, C&C Landfall 38/42, Brewer 44, Pearson 424, Endeavour 42, Cal 39 are some comparable boats that come to mind. We started out thinking the Morgan 384 would be perfect for us – and on paper it mostly is – but we ultimately ended up preferring a more modern design for several reasons. We also said we’d never get in-mast furling but now have it and love it.
 

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The only negative thing I can think of about that Morgan full keel is it doesn't back up worth a damned. It prop walks in both directions, depending upon the day of the week. However, one of the other great benefits of that full keel is you virtually cannot snag a crab pot or lobster pot float even if you run right over it. I've hit thousands while sailing at night in Chesapeake Bay and never, ever snagged one - not one! When I had my Catalina 27 with a fin keel, I snagged one every night I sailed after dark. I not only snagged them with the keel, but also the rudder and prop. Other than that, the Catalina 27 was a great boat for someone sailing singlehanded, it responded well to minor changes in sail settings, and it really came up tight into the wind, much tighter than the Morgan with a full keel. So, yes there are some benefits there as well, depends upon what you are looking for in the way of benefits.

Good luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
The longer 'fin' keel of a Kelley Peterson 44 looks like as close to a 'full keel' as I'd want to go. The KP44 seems to have reportedly very good performance under sail and is at the upper limit of what I'm looking for. Great looking boat for a center cockpit!
 

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The only negative thing I can think of about that Morgan full keel is.............
Maybe trivial to some, but as a bit of correction, I'd like to point out that the Morgan OI, like Gary's, does not actually have a full keel. It is a "modified" full keel or described as a cutaway forefoot. This does not change anyone's observations about the boat as posted above.
 
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