[khammett]

So I just found this video.....

This looks like a good boat. My question is, what are these sailboats mostly good for? Like liveaboarding, coastal cruising, bluewater offshore passage making? How much would one of these typically cost?

Here's the specs that were on the video...

"So, we have now consummated the deal on our new(er) sailboat - a 1978 41 foot Morgan Out Island yacht. She is a really roomy sailboat with a center cockpit and two heads. She has a Volvo Penta turbo diesel in her, and will make 7.5 knots all day long. Although she needs a bit of TLC, she has solid underpinnings and will be a great retirement sailboat for us. Here are her specifications per Jack Hornor :
Length Overall 41' 3"
Waterline Length 34' 0"
Maximum Beam 13' 10"
Maximum Draft 4' 2"
Displacement/Weight 27,000 lbs
Fuel Capacity 140 Gallons
Water Capacity 170 Gallons
Sail Area 100%
Fore triangle 792 Sq ft.
As with most Morgan OI sailboats of this era, she appears to have had the port water tank replaced with a smaller tank. The stock tanks developed leaks over time, and they were too large (138 gallons) to remove and replace through the companionway. They were normally replaced with smaller tanks, which left additional storage for other things. Because we would prefer the additional water storage, we will probably ad additional tankage.
She is a full (shoal) keel design, and at 13.5 tons, is considered to be a heavy displacement yacht. Because of this, she has a steady way about her in seas. At this point we have only had her out on a sea trial for a few hours, but we had enough wind to raise her sails and head into the Pacific, and we were impressed with her sailing ability and comfort. As with all full keel designs, she does not go to windward as well as fin keep sailboats, or so we are told, but she does well enough. We're not looking for a racing boat, but we are looking for a comfortable boat to sail the world aboard, and I believe that we have found just that."

 

[Jeff_H]

Morgan OI 41's were made for many years and in many variations, under several company ownerships. They vary very widely in specification and with wild extremes in build quality. There were a variety of rigs, and interior layouts, and were variations in the keel from the original very full keel, to cut away, and fin keel versions. There were huge variations in displacement and ballast ratios, sail area, and tankage.

Morgan OI 41's make reasonably good and inexpensive live-aboards, mediocre coastal cruisers, but one really would need a lot of work to make into a distance offshore cruiser.

They are notorious for hull to deck joint failures (at least on the ones which were glued together with 5200 and almost no fastenings like the one I helped repair when I worked at Direcktors Yachts). Its hard to know when the quality changes occurred since some of the boats for private owners were better built at the same time and along side of boats going into the charter fleets, which were purposefully built to a really poor specification (skip tabbing, minimal hardware, some deck hardware of mediocre quality, undersized and attached to deck with self tapping screws, Formica over non-marine plywood bulkheads, and so on) in order to save money. Some of the private owner versions had nice interior finishes with teak or mahogany plywood bulkheads and teak or mahogany trimmed 'Herreshoff style" interiors.

As a broad generality, compared to other designs of their era, let alone modern designs, they are mediocre sailors, reaching well in a breeze, but not so great upwind or in light or heavy air. That said, some versions sailed considerably better than their reputation would suggest. They tend to have a very rolly and uncomfortable motion.

Jeff

 

[travlin-easy]

The 41 O.I. is an excellent live aboard boat, it sails very well except when really tight on the wind. I own a 33 O.I. and have sailed up to 10.1 MPH with 15 to 20 MPH winds on broad reach. The boat rarely heels more than 15 degrees on a beam reach with 20 MPH winds.

There is an enormous amount of interior and storage space in both the 33 and 41 O.I., more than many boats that measure much longer. Storage space is awesome, the both the fuel and water capacities are more than many larger boats.

Some models of the 41 do not have the companion way leading to the aft cabin, and you have to go into that cabin from the cockpit entrance, which can be somewhat inconvenient in bad weather.

As stated by Jeff, there is an issue where the hull is joined to the cabin top, often resulting in leakage. This can be repaired, but it is a PITA. I have to repair mine next month. The boat is quite heavy for it's size, which accounts for it's superior ride. It slices through heavy seas while other similar sized boats are bouncing around like a cork in a hurricane.

The only reason I did not opt for the 41 is that at that stage, I didn't think I would be able to single hand the boat. Now that I have considerably more experience, I believe I could single hand sail this boat very easily.

As for the cost, it will vary substantially, depending on condition and what the current owner(s) feel they can sell it for. A bit of internet research will help determine the boat's worth.

Also, when you find the one you want, have it surveyed. This will provide you with a portrait of what repairs you will have to make to get the boat in seaworthy condition, money that should be subtracted from the sellers asking price. I've seen them for as little as $30,000 and as much as $114,000. The $114,000 boat was way overpriced.

Good luck,

Gary

 

[T37Chef]

No way G Stud, I know the 33 OI well, 10 SOG maybe in Hell Gate but that boat cannot do 10 knots hull speed...simply cannot. They do motor well.

 

[travlin-easy]

Put those peepers on, old man - I said 10.1 MPH - not knots. That translates to 8.68976 knots - still damned fast. And, yes, that was speed over ground with a dead slack tide just off Pooles Island. Winds that day put me on a broad reach, woofing at 15 to 20 mph. We flew down the bay that day, passing nearly every sailboat in sight, and several barges pushed and towed by tugs.

I figured there would be a skeptic or two, therefore I shot photo of the GPS when we were clipping right along.

Shawn, anytime you wanna try out my old tub of a boat, you're more than welcome aboard. I'll even supply the food and booze - how's that for a deal?

Gary

 

[T37Chef]

I grew up sailing on my best friends (parents) OI33, you are one heck of a sailor my friend! 33 x 13 beam = and 10.1 mph or 8.6 I still don't believe it sorry. Comfortable live aboard boats but they are not one thing for sure, fast. Hell...if my boat hits 8 knts I am surprised and thrilled! ;-)

 

[travlin-easy]

Shawn, I frequently hit 7.5 to 8.5 MPH on days when the wind is averaging 15 to 30. I nailed a 9 once, but that was in 45 MPH winds during a thunder storm and I was trying to run from the storm. I got nailed above mid channel with hail and torrents of rain, I was running full sails, and I thought the rigging would blow apart. Those cables were akin to banjo strings at that point. I finally heaved too and waited a couple hours for the nasties to go away

Of course, fast is a relative term when sailing. I was an official for a couple years with the APBA (American Power Boat Association) and spent lots of time in infield during races with various class of hydroplanes, Jersey skiffs, etc... Got to sit in the cockpit of the Miss Budweiser once. Thank God he didn't take off while I was there. That thing screamed at incredible speeds and ironically, the Budweiser team lost as many races as they won. I forgot what the actual speeds were, but I'm thinkin they topped out at about 165 MPH on the straitaways.

I see the Lightnings and Stars race every Thursday during the summer at Havre de Grace. They really look like they're screaming along, but in reality, none ever get above about 8 MPH at best. So, I guess things can be a bit deceptive.

So, that offer still stands, Shawn. The bar and the freezer are both fully stocked all the time. I'll sit back and sip Margarettas while you trim the boat and sail her. As for Morgans being slower than sailboats of similar size, I think that's just an old wives tale that never had any validity. Again, I think it's perception because of the way the boat handles. It never really heels beyond 8 to 15 degrees on a 20 MPH wind, it's pretty much impossible to bury the rails, and the ride is real smooth even in nasty weather.

Cheers,

Gary

All the best,

Gary

 

[capta]

I have sailed many of these boats when they were the popular bareboats in the VI. Honestly, it is a motorsailor, with a 4.5 to 5 foot draft, it just isn't going to go well to windward, hence your big Volvo turbo. Obviously off the wind they can move pretty well, especially the ones with the taller rigs.
They do well in the Bahamas with their shallow draft and the sheltered water sailing, but interisland in the Caribbean in 15 to 25 knot trades, you are going to take a beating.
One delivery from Great Inagua to St. T. (about 600 miles), I double reefed the main, cranked up the engine and slammed my way east into normal tradewind seas. It was a rough voyage and we managed w/o any problems, but the boat was brand new (4 months). Without much longitudinal reinforcement it worked a great deal, though.
As mentioned by others, they do roll their guts out in an anchorage, but if you plan to be in marinas it would be OK.
If you are considering this boat as a Caribbean cruiser and possibly beyond, there are many boats of more modern design available, that are much better sailboats with better layouts.

 

[T37Chef]

You're a damn good sailor than G and must have some sweet sails on that boat! ;-)

Cheers, I sail me boat...hopefully next week but I digress into thread drift...sorry OP

 

[capta]

Put those peepers on, old man - I said 10.1 MPH - not knots. That translates to 8.68976 knots - still damned fast. And, yes, that was speed over ground with a dead slack tide just off Pooles Island. Winds that day put me on a broad reach, woofing at 15 to 20 mph. We flew down the bay that day, passing nearly every sailboat in sight, and several barges pushed and towed by tugs.

I figured there would be a skeptic or two, therefore I shot photo of the GPS when we were clipping right along.

Shawn, anytime you wanna try out my old tub of a boat, you're more than welcome aboard. I'll even supply the food and booze - how's that for a deal?

Gary

I really don't want to rain on your high speed here, but every now and then a GPS will give a really high max speed for no apparent reason. Perhaps it's during a particularly violent pitch or going over a wake, or perhaps during a tack.
Mine has given me a high speed of 18, 23 and even 36 once (in some pretty crappy weather) which I know for a fact my boat isn't doing, unless the GPS is taking the rotational speed of the earth into account.
Like every other bit of modern day electronics, sometimes a bit of skepticism may be called for.
Of course, with 2.5 to 4 knots of current, 10 mph isn't that off the mark.
Just out of curiosity, why is your GPS reading mph? Were you doing a ditch trip?

 

[Mr. Bubs]

Ugh. Quit saying "MPH", that's like calling the fenders on your boat "bumpers".

 

[travlin-easy]

I really don't want to rain on your high speed here, but every now and then a GPS will give a really high max speed for no apparent reason. Perhaps it's during a particularly violent pitch or going over a wake, or perhaps during a tack.
Mine has given me a high speed of 18, 23 and even 36 once (in some pretty crappy weather) which I know for a fact my boat isn't doing, unless the GPS is taking the rotational speed of the earth into account.
Like every other bit of modern day electronics, sometimes a bit of skepticism may be called for.
Of course, with 2.5 to 4 knots of current, 10 mph isn't that off the mark.
Just out of curiosity, why is your GPS reading mph? Were you doing a ditch trip?

The GPS read that 10 plus MPH speed for about 20 minutes, not a fluke from rolling or pitching - it just sailed that fast. And, this particular trip was just a weekend jaunt in Chesapeake Bay with no tidal current at the time.

As for rolling at anchorage, I've never experienced that at all. In fact, while fin keel boats were rolling like pigs, I was sitting dead still 50 yards away from them.

The reason the GPS reads MPH is I set it there when going down the ditch so it would match the chart books. I just never changed it back to knots because to me, it makes no difference. Four years in the US Navy and I never really used all those nautical terms - just lazy I guess.

Bubs, I understand why some folks call them bumpers, and some call them fenders. It's just that silly nautical stuff that some folks think is quaint. For me, it makes no difference at all as long as I safely get where I'm going. OK, the long thingies hanging over the side are fenders, and the round ones are ball/fender/bumpers. How's that?

Cheers,

Gary

 

[Mr. Bubs]

Today, I fired up the Spot and hit the OK button while standing on my back porch. A few minutes later the information appeared on my email, which is where I had it sent. Not only did the image show that I was 100 feet from by back porch, but the Lat/Lon it provided was 20 miles or more from my home. Then I found out why. Instead of using Degrees, minutes and seconds, which our charts and GPS Plotters all use, Spot, for some strange reason, decided to use Degrees, Decimal degrees, which is pretty much worthless if you are trying to find a location on a conventional chart.

GPS is very unreliable.

 

[Jeff_H]

Winds that day put me on a broad reach, woofing at 15 to 20 mph.

Gary

Gary,

You and I have had this discussion before on other threads. While I think that we agree that you are right to say that whatever speed your boat is capable of doing is acceptable to you and should be to other like-minded cruisers. Where you and I disagree is on the relative speed abilities of your boat.

By any objective scale, the OI-33 is a slow boat. As I have pointed out before, compared to similar sized cruising boats of the same era, the OI-33 has 30 to 60 seconds a mile slower PHRF rating. That is actually a really large speed difference that in typical cruising conditions can have a much greater impact on passage times than it sounds.

As to your screen shot of your GPS, the significant number on your GPS screen shot is the average speed. 5.6 miles per hour, which is a painfully slow average speed for a boat with your water line length in those wind conditions. Even a moderately better performing cruising boat of your era should be showing average speeds around 8.5 miles per hour with a more modern cruising design with a similar displacement showing average speeds approaching 10 miles an hour.

As to the 10.1 MPH on the screen shot, as Capta points out, its not unusual to have unrealistically high Max speeds on a GPS due to rolling and pitching. For example, my prior GPS had captured a max speed over 17 knots. My boat has never hit 17 knots even with a favorable current. The fastest that I ever saw on my knotmeter approached 14 knots, which was an instantaneous speed obtained while surfing in a very big gust and large chop. Yet the GPS would have suggested that my boat had gone over 3 knots faster.

And if as you suggest, your boat had sustained speeds of 10.1 miles per hour for a period of time, your GPS would have shown a higher max speed, because any time that a boat sustains a high speed there will be short term readings that are over that speed.

Respectfully,
Jeff

 

[aa3jy]

I recall one time when I was stopped for speeding on my m/c while heading to Bike Week I was asked by the LEO how fast was I going..I showed him my highest speed history on my GPS indicating 560mph.. Laughing he let me go with a warning...

FYI the speed was captured while flying down to Cancun and I kept it just for that very purpose..

 

[SJ34]

Harsh

Where you and I disagree is on the relative speed abilities of your boat.

By any objective scale, the OI-33 is a slow boat.

As I have pointed out before, compared to similar sized cruising boats of the same era, the OI-33 has 30 to 60 seconds a mile slower PHRF rating. That is actually a really large speed difference that in typical cruising conditions can have a much greater impact on passage times than it sounds.

5.6 miles per hour, which is a painfully slow average speed for a boat with your water line length in those wind conditions.

Even a moderately better performing cruising boat of your era should be showing average speeds around 8.5 miles per hour...

Respectfully, (really?)
Jeff

I hear he also dates ugly women.

Really guys, we're talking sailboats. Speed is completely relative. The difference between a fast boat and a slow one is a few mph.

Jeff, do you think Gary cares less for his boat than you do for yours?

Respectfully

Shane

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[Group9]

I've never actually sailed on a Morgan OI 41 but, I've been aboard some and they are roomy beyond belief for a 41 foot boat.

 

[travlin-easy]

Bubs, I'll match my GPS accuracy against your sextant and chart reading accuracy anytime you wish. Inaccurate it ain't!

Jeff, you sail Chesapeake Bay, just a lot farther south than me. Keep in mind that speed was over a period of 4:45 hours/mins, which in Chesapeake Bay winds often vary considerably from dead calm, right on your nose, to screaming. If anyone should know that you should.

And, like the man said, speed is a relative term. If I really wanted to go fast, I would have purchased a go fast powerboat - not a sail boat. I just want to go from point A to point B in comfort, and that's exactly what I do. If time were a huge factor traveling from Perryville, MD to Marathon, FL I would fly there. And, just because you cannot bury the rails on the Morgan OI series, doesn't mean the boat is moving dead slow. I frequently pass a lot of boats that have their rails buried and the deck awash. I would much rather sail flat, prop up my feet and sip a cold one.

The OP wanted to know what the boat was best suited for, of which I provided my opinion based upon ownership of my 33 OI for the past five years. I never stated it was a racer, but instead, a very comfortable, reliable live-aboard cruiser, which, IMO, and that of many others, this boat definitely is. Yeah, I know you're a performance guy, but the vast majority of those of us on the forum are not racers, at least not to my knowledge. So, yes, that 41 Morgan OI is a great boat for what it was intended, cruising comfortably, reliably and safely along the coast, in estuaries, and to the Bahamas.

Cheers,

Gary

 

[Jeff_H]

Harsh

I think my comments would have been harsh if I had not included the opening sentence, which you chose to crop. That sentence read, "While I think that we agree that you are right to say that whatever speed your boat is capable of doing is acceptable to you and should be to other like-minded cruisers. Where you and I disagree is on the relative speed abilities of your boat." That comment was intended to acknowledge the same point you were making when you said. "Jeff, do you think Gary cares less for his boat than you do for yours?"

As Gary and I have discussed on other threads, what is important about any boat is that it meets its owner's needs. Gary seems to be extremely pleased with his OI 33 and in that regard it is an excellent boat for him. I would also suspect that there are other like minded people would equally share his love of the OI 33 and enjoy owning and caring for one as much as he does.

But that is not the question that my comments were intended to address. That post were meant to realistically discuss the relative speed of the OI 33 to other boats from that same era in a thread started by someone who is looking at the relative merits of a similar larger design and which came from someone who is considering purchasing one.

If you compare the speed of the OI 33, as evidenced by its rating, to boats like the Tartan 34, Morgan 32, or 33, Pearson 323, or other cruising boats of that same period, the OI 33 is significantly slower. That is just a basic fact.

Whether that slower speed capability is adequate for someone buying or owning that boat is subjective. If the relative speed is adequate for a given owner, as it clearly is for Gary, then pointing out that relative speed should not matter to that person, and merely pointing that out should not alter their love or enjoyment of their boat. And in my mind, if that is the case and in that context my comments should not be seen as being harsh.

As a practical reality, no matter what sailboat you own, sooner or later there will always be a faster boat out there. I have long since come to understand that while my boat was pretty fast for her day, the reality is that my boat is 30 to 60 seconds a mile slower than more modern designs of the same displacement. If asked I readily point that out, and would expect anyone else to point that out if asked about a boat like mine. It does not make me like my boat any less, it does not seem harsh to me. Maybe that is just me……
Lunch over-back to work.

Respectfully,
Jeff

 

[capta]

As for rolling at anchorage, I've never experienced that at all. In fact, while fin keel boats were rolling like pigs, I was sitting dead still 50 yards away from them.
Gary

I'm sorry Gary, but you may be comparing apples and oranges here.
Your OI 33 has a design draft of 3.92' for a beam of 11.83', a WL length of 27.50' and the ballast is 5000#. The OI 41 has a draft of 4.17' for a beam of 13.82', a WL length of 34' and the ballast is 10500#.
I am not enough of a mathematician to interpolate these figures, but even though both boats were built by the same manufacturer, they probably are not at all similar in sailing or rolling characteristics.
There are very few OI 33's down here so I cannot attest to their livability, but the 41's are common and appear to be one of the most uncomfortable boats in any rolly anchorage. In other words, they roll very badly, even in a slight swell.
I do not dislike these boats, by the way, and given a few design tweaks and a bit more care on the production line, they could have been superior cruising boats.
So, I guess we both agree that these boats are, "a great boat for what it was intended, cruising comfortably, reliably and safely along the coast, in estuaries, and to the Bahamas" in fair weather.