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美国华人, 帆船
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got back from a delivery from Bahamas to Annapolis. It was the most Exhausting Delivery thus far since I started 5 years ago. It is not the most dangerous sea state, but just lack of the common items that we often take it for granted.

1. No Dodger,
2. No auto helm, manual steering just two of us.

For some reasons, the boat did not track well at all with the sails up or with just motoring. Of course the worst part was crossing the gulf steam. The other one was crossing Albemarle Sound (15 ft depth) in the dark from Alligator River to Elizabeth City. The wind was not bad at all, but the 2 hours watch with constantly fighting with the steering was so tiring. The less than two year old boat could not hold the course, we were wondering if the keel was misaligned from grounding.

With the commercial delivery, you never know what you are getting. Good experience to have. :)
 

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Closet Powerboater
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In John Kretchmer's book, "flirting with mermaids" he talks about taking a wheelpilot autopilot in his bag for every delivery. If the boat has one, great, but he brings one as well.

My Formosa 41 requires constant attention at the helm under motor (not so much under sail) and it can be exhausting. My last boat, I could read a book when in an uncongested area and just look up at the end of every paragraph.

MedSailor
 

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Yeah, what kind of boat was it?

I'm pretty new to sailing, I've only sailed seven different boats, but how they track car really make a difference in how tiring it is.

The worst I've been on was a Hunter 340. The helm needed constant attention, or it would wander all over the place. It was quite tiring to drive that boat.

The nicest I've been on was this weekend on a Jeanneau 39i. If you got the sail trim even close to balanced it just sailed straight on till morning. It was almost like having an autopilot on, it was so relaxing.

Mr. Hess, I think the second best was an Islander 36. Same thing, if I got it even close to balance it sailed dead straight.
 

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Most of you have read Slocum. Well he sure had it right with easy helming. My spray copy would track up wind or down.Had an auto for motoring times but the main concern was failing asleep wing and wing down an inlet
 

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美国华人, 帆船
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It was a Jeanneau 409, less than 2 years old. I have sailed lots of Jeanneau over the years, never have such a problem. It was so strange.

This was not the only thing:

1. When we arrived, the boat was missing. After a few hours, were told the boat was in different island. We finally found the boat mooring in the cove.

2. but the battery will dead. we paired up the Batteries and got the genset running but the engine battery was not taking charged. We found all batteries were bone dry. The original seals were stilled on. IT means that no one taking care the batteries since new. They brought in a new engine battery for us.

3. We motored back the the main quarter to refuel, water and get provisioning and left the dock at around three. No electronics at all - it meant no auto helm, so depth sounder, no temp, no knot meter, no dodger, no EPIRB, no life raft, no Wind Instrument or Windvane Transducer (not working)

4. We stopped and anchored at Rat Cay to regroup things at dusk.

5 We left the the anchorage at 6 am in the morning and head to Whale Cay to exist in the ocean. The chartplotter went dead and lost the GPS position while we tried to exist the moderate easterly wind about 15 knots. I pulled out my Garmin 78sc with a 3 inch screen. It guided us out safely into the deep ocean. We know the Garmin is right, because there was an opening (1000 ft) between the breakers. We powered her up with sails, and headed north. A few hour later, we got the boat Chartploter (Simrad) back on line. But No avail with other instruments despite I read through all factory manuals. That seems a connectivity problem that I could not solved. We knew it was going to be tough delivery. We opted for a 2 hour watch schedule.

6 Wind died to light breeze and we motorsailed. Engine died a few time without reasons.

7. On the third day (Friday), the calm sea and far from land, the engine died completely. We ripped all the floor board and berth out, and located the tank and traced the fuel lines. We also found the spared fuel filters. Unlike Perry 59, I sailed 3 weeks ago, this boat is a bare bone model for charter. It did not have the fancy fuel handling system in place. We chose to replace both filters, and bleed properly. We all knew, it was always calm before the storm. Replacement filters did the trick. The engine sounded much better and ran nicely for the rest of the trip.

8. The wind started clocking northerly. With the engine problem and all other issues on the boat, going out Hatteras is too risky. We were now heading to Morehead City and ICW to Norfolk.

To be continued.
 

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美国华人, 帆船
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, one would think most delivery captains would have at least known they were getting a boat without an autopilot... :)
In a perfect world, we would know every thing before we jump into bed. There will be no divorce in this world.

Actually we were told that we were supposed to take a Catamaran, not a mono hull. What are we going to do, fly home? When your commercial client with over a thousand boats worldwide, they give you an order, you march. :)
 

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It had spare fuel filters. Life is good.
Could have been worse.
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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My agreement with owners is that if the boat isn't ready to go the owner pays for my flight home. My judgment alone. If it can be fixed I'll manage repairs at my regular day rate or do them myself at my technician hourly rate. His choice.

I've had people back away at that standard. I've walked away from one boat. I don't remember spending more than a couple of days working on a boat before departure.

My choice is not to leave the dock with known issues unresolved. There are too many unknown things that can bite you offshore, like the fuel filter issue above.

Does it pay well?
Not particularly.
 

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My agreement with owners is that if the boat isn't ready to go the owner pays for my flight home. My judgment along. If it can be fixed I'll manage repairs at my regular day rate or do them myself at my technician hourly rate. His choice.......
Whoa there...... I never agree to pay the same rate for being at sea as being at the dock, whatever the reason. Even if weathered in port, the rates drop for waiting or watching. All have agreed.

However, I do recall your tech rates were pretty reasonable. :)
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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Whoa there...... I never agree to pay the same rate for being at sea as being at the dock, whatever the reason. Even if weathered in port, the rates drop for waiting or watching. All have agreed.

However, I do recall your tech rates were pretty reasonable. :)
Managing repairs isn't watching. It's work.

Unless agreed ahead of time the boat is supposed to be ready to go, absent provisions. If it isn't I go home unless the owner wants me to manage repairs or fix it myself. You get what you pay for.

Waiting for weather is a different thing entirely. I don't charge for weather waits at the beginning of a delivery (other than provisions) to avoid poor decision making based on financial considerations.
 

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Still, managing repairs is not the same as beating to windward in 10ft seas. More people are capable of managing repairs than actually delivering the boat. I think the latter is worth more, thereby, the former worth less. How much less may be debatable.

Totally understand the point about going home if the boat's condition and fit up is not as represented. I would do the same.
 

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I honestly don't understand why the rates would drop for being weathered in port. Time is Time, and Time is money. It would seem to me that weather is part of a delivery. Sure, one should try to schedule optimally; but if a day is lost waiting for a weather window that shouldn't translate to an expense to the Captain in lost wages.

I might agree if the Captain was leaving from his/her home port and could accomplish other paid work during the weather delay. But, if one has flown to Bahamas, for instance, to meet a vessel, I would expect to pay for their time. All their time.
Otherwise you're asking the captain to absorb the opportunity cost of work lost elsewhere.

That Auspicious doesn't charge for weather delays at the front end of a delivery is a very generous concession imo. I think I understand the reasoning though.

If the expectations of readiness were clearly outlined at the outset and the vessel is not ready to depart; that's not the Captain's fault. So whether he is supervising work, performing work or sitting on a beach waiting for it to get done It's not his fault the boat wasn't ready to depart. The hours should be billable. Again, that someone is willing to adjust their rate downward to perform repairs seems to me like a generous concession.

If someone hires a Captain to deliver their vessel safely to port; part of that equation is knowing when to wait out a frontal passage or move inshore ( perhaps taking longer) to avoid unnecessary damage/risk. Unless some sort of " Flat rate" delivery fee is negotiated a daily rate should be a daily rate. Just my opinion.
 

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Corsair 24
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id be happier with flat rate...but thats how work is usually done down here too and its part of the reason it bites you in the ass...SOMETIMES

50 up front 50 on delivery if you will...however for work down here what happens is they dont care if they take as long as they want...so untill they need the 50 remaining percent they are on island time! jajaja

id love to do deliveries, only have done it for friends boats and helping others as crew and stuff but not as my sole proffession...

would be fun though

someday

if anybody needs quick delivery around central america though Im game though!

flate rate! jajaja

peace
 

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Still, managing repairs is not the same as beating to windward in 10ft seas. More people are capable of managing repairs than actually delivering the boat. I think the latter is worth more, thereby, the former worth less. How much less may be debatable.

Totally understand the point about going home if the boat's condition and fit up is not as represented. I would do the same.
The way I understood him, he shows up and the boat needs repair (after the owner has already committed to providing a boat that is ready to go). So, again- as I understand it, the choice is yours. ("Yours" as in the Customer's, I don't mean to direct this at you personally.) You can fly him home and then you can fix your boat, and then fly him back. OR, you can pay him to manage the repair (to avoid flying him back and forth) and his pay is commensurate with his daily rate. For the life of me I can't see a problem here.

I can't speak to delivering boats, but I spent a good portion of my adult life as a project manager and field engineer. The customer is always on a deadline and is anxious to get you there as soon as possible. Oftentimes the customer is, shall we say, "overly optimistic" that things will be ready for you when you show up. The same thing applied in my line of work. I'm already on site so you may as well pay me to manage your people in completing the project (since I have to sign off on the work anyway) or you can pay me to do the work myself. That price is higher, but you don't have to pay me to supervise and also pay someone else to do the work. You also don't lose the money you spent flying me there and back, and then there again.

I used to occasionally run into the odd customer who decided he wasn't ready and would tell me to head back to my hotel. I would politely explain that I'm not on his clock. The contract is that I get paid a daily rate, not an hourly rate. If a production line is down you send the operators home to avoid paying hourly wages. It doesn't work like that. If I'm not at MY house then I'm on the clock. And no, Mr. Customer, I'm not going to sweep the floor just because you are paying me and don't have anything else for me to do. I'll be at the hotel, since you don't want me to go home, and you can call me when you are ready.
 

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Freedom 39
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I used to occasionally run into the odd customer who decided he wasn't ready and would tell me to head back to my hotel. I would politely explain that I'm not on his clock. The contract is that I get paid a daily rate, not an hourly rate. If a production line is down you send the operators home to avoid paying hourly wages. It doesn't work like that. If I'm not at MY house then I'm on the clock. And no, Mr. Customer, I'm not going to sweep the floor just because you are paying me and don't have anything else for me to do. I'll be at the hotel, since you don't want me to go home, and you can call me when you are ready.
I worked in the service/repair biz for much of my early professional career. I billed the customer at an hourly rate with a minimum typically equal to two hours. Frequently I was able to resolve issues in less than 30 minutes. If I had time in my schedule, I would ask if there was anything else that they would like me to do as I was on a very well stocked service truck full of tools and ladders etc. Obviously I had the ability to refuse requests but I am proud to say that I cleaned gutters for a little old lady and hung a new ceiling fan for a guy the day before Christmas as a surprise for his wife. If someone is paying for two hours of my time, I want them to feel like they got their money's worth despite the fact that I was able to complete the task in a matter of moments. Perhaps it would be different if I was doing day work or somebody wanted me to shovel manure!;)

And yes Shoalfinder, more than once I arrived at a scheduled time and address to either find no one there or they had fixed the problem and forgotten to cancel the call. Yes, they paid for my wasted time!!! Some of the "special" customers with a reputation created an incentive for me to go even faster and then hand them a fat bill...
 

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I would have no problem helping someone/ a client in this case, get a boat ready to leave if it was not ready when I arrived and the required work was within my area of expertise or competence. However, I would not expect to have my pay reduced or eliminated simply because the work might be simpler ( not beating head seas) or there's an unforeseen weather delay. Nor would I expect to pay a professional captain less because they had to fix my auto-pilot before they could set out.
 
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