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Most Exhausting Delivery thus far

6K views 43 replies 21 participants last post by  JonEisberg 
#1 ·
I just got back from a delivery from Bahamas to Annapolis. It was the most Exhausting Delivery thus far since I started 5 years ago. It is not the most dangerous sea state, but just lack of the common items that we often take it for granted.

1. No Dodger,
2. No auto helm, manual steering just two of us.

For some reasons, the boat did not track well at all with the sails up or with just motoring. Of course the worst part was crossing the gulf steam. The other one was crossing Albemarle Sound (15 ft depth) in the dark from Alligator River to Elizabeth City. The wind was not bad at all, but the 2 hours watch with constantly fighting with the steering was so tiring. The less than two year old boat could not hold the course, we were wondering if the keel was misaligned from grounding.

With the commercial delivery, you never know what you are getting. Good experience to have. :)
 
#2 ·
In John Kretchmer's book, "flirting with mermaids" he talks about taking a wheelpilot autopilot in his bag for every delivery. If the boat has one, great, but he brings one as well.

My Formosa 41 requires constant attention at the helm under motor (not so much under sail) and it can be exhausting. My last boat, I could read a book when in an uncongested area and just look up at the end of every paragraph.

MedSailor
 
#4 ·
Yeah, what kind of boat was it?

I'm pretty new to sailing, I've only sailed seven different boats, but how they track car really make a difference in how tiring it is.

The worst I've been on was a Hunter 340. The helm needed constant attention, or it would wander all over the place. It was quite tiring to drive that boat.

The nicest I've been on was this weekend on a Jeanneau 39i. If you got the sail trim even close to balanced it just sailed straight on till morning. It was almost like having an autopilot on, it was so relaxing.

Mr. Hess, I think the second best was an Islander 36. Same thing, if I got it even close to balance it sailed dead straight.
 
#9 ·
In a perfect world, we would know every thing before we jump into bed. There will be no divorce in this world.

Actually we were told that we were supposed to take a Catamaran, not a mono hull. What are we going to do, fly home? When your commercial client with over a thousand boats worldwide, they give you an order, you march. :)
 
#8 ·
It was a Jeanneau 409, less than 2 years old. I have sailed lots of Jeanneau over the years, never have such a problem. It was so strange.

This was not the only thing:

1. When we arrived, the boat was missing. After a few hours, were told the boat was in different island. We finally found the boat mooring in the cove.

2. but the battery will dead. we paired up the Batteries and got the genset running but the engine battery was not taking charged. We found all batteries were bone dry. The original seals were stilled on. IT means that no one taking care the batteries since new. They brought in a new engine battery for us.

3. We motored back the the main quarter to refuel, water and get provisioning and left the dock at around three. No electronics at all - it meant no auto helm, so depth sounder, no temp, no knot meter, no dodger, no EPIRB, no life raft, no Wind Instrument or Windvane Transducer (not working)

4. We stopped and anchored at Rat Cay to regroup things at dusk.

5 We left the the anchorage at 6 am in the morning and head to Whale Cay to exist in the ocean. The chartplotter went dead and lost the GPS position while we tried to exist the moderate easterly wind about 15 knots. I pulled out my Garmin 78sc with a 3 inch screen. It guided us out safely into the deep ocean. We know the Garmin is right, because there was an opening (1000 ft) between the breakers. We powered her up with sails, and headed north. A few hour later, we got the boat Chartploter (Simrad) back on line. But No avail with other instruments despite I read through all factory manuals. That seems a connectivity problem that I could not solved. We knew it was going to be tough delivery. We opted for a 2 hour watch schedule.

6 Wind died to light breeze and we motorsailed. Engine died a few time without reasons.

7. On the third day (Friday), the calm sea and far from land, the engine died completely. We ripped all the floor board and berth out, and located the tank and traced the fuel lines. We also found the spared fuel filters. Unlike Perry 59, I sailed 3 weeks ago, this boat is a bare bone model for charter. It did not have the fancy fuel handling system in place. We chose to replace both filters, and bleed properly. We all knew, it was always calm before the storm. Replacement filters did the trick. The engine sounded much better and ran nicely for the rest of the trip.

8. The wind started clocking northerly. With the engine problem and all other issues on the boat, going out Hatteras is too risky. We were now heading to Morehead City and ICW to Norfolk.

To be continued.
 
#12 · (Edited)
My agreement with owners is that if the boat isn't ready to go the owner pays for my flight home. My judgment alone. If it can be fixed I'll manage repairs at my regular day rate or do them myself at my technician hourly rate. His choice.

I've had people back away at that standard. I've walked away from one boat. I don't remember spending more than a couple of days working on a boat before departure.

My choice is not to leave the dock with known issues unresolved. There are too many unknown things that can bite you offshore, like the fuel filter issue above.

Does it pay well?
Not particularly.
 
#15 ·
Still, managing repairs is not the same as beating to windward in 10ft seas. More people are capable of managing repairs than actually delivering the boat. I think the latter is worth more, thereby, the former worth less. How much less may be debatable.

Totally understand the point about going home if the boat's condition and fit up is not as represented. I would do the same.
 
#18 · (Edited)
The way I understood him, he shows up and the boat needs repair (after the owner has already committed to providing a boat that is ready to go). So, again- as I understand it, the choice is yours. ("Yours" as in the Customer's, I don't mean to direct this at you personally.) You can fly him home and then you can fix your boat, and then fly him back. OR, you can pay him to manage the repair (to avoid flying him back and forth) and his pay is commensurate with his daily rate. For the life of me I can't see a problem here.

I can't speak to delivering boats, but I spent a good portion of my adult life as a project manager and field engineer. The customer is always on a deadline and is anxious to get you there as soon as possible. Oftentimes the customer is, shall we say, "overly optimistic" that things will be ready for you when you show up. The same thing applied in my line of work. I'm already on site so you may as well pay me to manage your people in completing the project (since I have to sign off on the work anyway) or you can pay me to do the work myself. That price is higher, but you don't have to pay me to supervise and also pay someone else to do the work. You also don't lose the money you spent flying me there and back, and then there again.

I used to occasionally run into the odd customer who decided he wasn't ready and would tell me to head back to my hotel. I would politely explain that I'm not on his clock. The contract is that I get paid a daily rate, not an hourly rate. If a production line is down you send the operators home to avoid paying hourly wages. It doesn't work like that. If I'm not at MY house then I'm on the clock. And no, Mr. Customer, I'm not going to sweep the floor just because you are paying me and don't have anything else for me to do. I'll be at the hotel, since you don't want me to go home, and you can call me when you are ready.
 
#16 ·
I honestly don't understand why the rates would drop for being weathered in port. Time is Time, and Time is money. It would seem to me that weather is part of a delivery. Sure, one should try to schedule optimally; but if a day is lost waiting for a weather window that shouldn't translate to an expense to the Captain in lost wages.

I might agree if the Captain was leaving from his/her home port and could accomplish other paid work during the weather delay. But, if one has flown to Bahamas, for instance, to meet a vessel, I would expect to pay for their time. All their time.
Otherwise you're asking the captain to absorb the opportunity cost of work lost elsewhere.

That Auspicious doesn't charge for weather delays at the front end of a delivery is a very generous concession imo. I think I understand the reasoning though.

If the expectations of readiness were clearly outlined at the outset and the vessel is not ready to depart; that's not the Captain's fault. So whether he is supervising work, performing work or sitting on a beach waiting for it to get done It's not his fault the boat wasn't ready to depart. The hours should be billable. Again, that someone is willing to adjust their rate downward to perform repairs seems to me like a generous concession.

If someone hires a Captain to deliver their vessel safely to port; part of that equation is knowing when to wait out a frontal passage or move inshore ( perhaps taking longer) to avoid unnecessary damage/risk. Unless some sort of " Flat rate" delivery fee is negotiated a daily rate should be a daily rate. Just my opinion.
 
#17 ·
id be happier with flat rate...but thats how work is usually done down here too and its part of the reason it bites you in the ass...SOMETIMES

50 up front 50 on delivery if you will...however for work down here what happens is they dont care if they take as long as they want...so untill they need the 50 remaining percent they are on island time! jajaja

id love to do deliveries, only have done it for friends boats and helping others as crew and stuff but not as my sole proffession...

would be fun though

someday

if anybody needs quick delivery around central america though Im game though!

flate rate! jajaja

peace
 
#20 · (Edited)
I would have no problem helping someone/ a client in this case, get a boat ready to leave if it was not ready when I arrived and the required work was within my area of expertise or competence. However, I would not expect to have my pay reduced or eliminated simply because the work might be simpler ( not beating head seas) or there's an unforeseen weather delay. Nor would I expect to pay a professional captain less because they had to fix my auto-pilot before they could set out.
 
#24 ·
to me this is awesome pay...depends where you are from

making 90k for sailing(responsibly) was what made me get my license a long time ago...but I was young and work is reference based...

in any case....Id think hard about saying captains pay sucks...when around the world youd be considered quite well off...
 
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#28 ·
Agree, it is all relative. In the States, most college grad professionals will make over $100K a year in their career easily. My son graduated in the worst economy in the US history, his first job out of college was $70K+ with over 20K benefits with Sikorski. Given him a couple years, he would make over $100K. It will be faster if he jumps company. I am not sure how that compares to the country you live in. I used to work for DuPont. I know the fact that DuPont pays their managers the same in U.S. and in China. The world is much smaller now than just 10 years ago.

I don't know the exact figures the captains make. I know most captains invoice their clients $350 to 500 a day depending on the size of the boat.
 
#25 ·
DAWG, would you care to do a write up on how the Jeanneau 409 performed on your trip? Sort of like the road test reports in Car & Driver? The 409 is on my short list of forty footers and I’d like to get your impression on how it handles at sea etc.
 
#27 ·
The other one was crossing Albemarle Sound (15 ft depth) in the dark from Alligator River to Elizabeth City. The wind was not bad at all, but the 2 hours watch with constantly fighting with the steering was so tiring.
Well, if 2 hours of steering across Albermarle Sound was wearing you out, probably a good thing you weren't trying to get started in the delivery trade a few decades ago... It was definitely more like walking through the snow to school, uphill both ways, back in the 70's... :)

I got started running Taiwanese trawlers and Leaky Teakies for Don Miller of Marine Trading International, one of the truly legendary characters in the US/Taiwanese boatbuilding industry... Those boats were selling like hotcakes after the fuel crisis of '73, and I was one of the 2 guys who did the bulk of their delivery work from the yard in NJ, to dealers up and down the East coast, and out on the Great Lakes...

Those boats came right off the ships in Port Newark, or Camden... A bit of clean up in the yard, and off we'd go, their only equipment being the minimal CG safety package of life jackets, fire extinguishers, flares, a compass, and a bell... a VHF radio would be hooked up with a pair of alligator clips, and first thing I'd do after clearing Manasquan Inlet, is sight down the beach, align the compass, and duct tape it in place at the helm accordingly... Depth Sounder? Dream on, that's what the anchor was for...:)

An absolutely essential bit of kit was a 12V fuel pump that could be cobbled into the fuel system, if need be. Those boats had copper fuel lines, very poorly fitted, almost guaranteed to start getting air at some point, and this was years before Racor filters began to become commonplace. Often the only way to keep those Ford Lehmans running, was to crack open a bleed screw on the secondary, and secure it in place with a small Vise Grip and safety wire...

These trips were invariably done singlehanded, every once in a while a girlfriend would come along for the ride... but I reckon I've probably hand-steered about 40-45 boats to Florida, and roughly an equal number thru the NY Barge Canal to upstate NY and out to the Great Lakes... The Erie Canal was the more challenging trip, not much margin for error thru there... When I'd head south, the first run would usually be straight thru to Coinjock, 36-40 hours on down the road...

It was probably 2-3 years until the first time I delivered a boat with an autopilot. I thought I had died and gone to heaven... A few years later, when I started running boats equipped with LORAN, I knew I had truly arrived... :)

I thought you once claimed you were good for 36 hours straight, with no sleep, no? And now, you're all tuckered out after 2 hours of steering at night on the ICW ???

:)
 
#29 · (Edited)
I thought you once claimed you were good for 36 hours straight, with no sleep, no? And now, you're all tuckered out after 2 hours of steering at night on the ICW ???

:)
Yeap.... I still stand by my words. OL.

The damn boat required constant steering. Less than 5 seconds with hands off the boat would head to left or right 20 to 30 degrees or more. It would take two hands on the helm to bring her back. We believe something was wrong with the rudder and keel of the boat. May be that was the reason the autopilot was not working at the first place.

Across the lumpy seas at the gulf steam and Albemarle Sound was a real test, cold and wet. I was tired, but I would do it again just for the experience in a hear beat.

Every voyage is an adventure. :D
 
#33 ·
Hahaha... I must be lucky. I have not seen/met No 1 and 3 at all. It won't last more than first 3 min in the first round interview (phone). Depending on the position, the second interview is on site from half day to two days. For the senior level candidates, they are required to give a 45 min presentation followed by a 15 min Q&A. We will always wine and dine the candidate. I am old school. By the time I have done with them, I will know the candidate more than they know themselves..............LOL

2. Don't have an 8 page (not exaggerating) resume if you are right out of college
All professional CV's are like a book. Mine is rather short, 32 pages. :laugher
 
#34 ·
RockDude, we all understand. You're awesome and so are your kids. Anyone who isn't as awesome must suck. All Americans make 70k right out of college, and if they don't it's their fault. Got it.

Hell, you know a lot of people work very hard but still can't get ahead. The USA, and I love it, is a deeply uneven country. I am lucky to have ended up on the profitable side of this country. But there are a lot of people that are as smart as me and work as hard as me that end up with crap. That's how this country goes, and it kinda sucks.

I'm glad you're doing well, but know that there are a lot of people that are as smart as you and have tried as hard as you and they're still working for min. We live in a hard system.
 
#35 ·
Every thing is relative. I am not doing as good as I used to. I lost many many mm dollar contracts to China and India. I needed to change the game to survive and support my employees. It is never easy. We need to constantly reinventing ourselves to beat our competitors and regain the foothold.

This country is still the best country in the world. I was an immigrant. Naturally, I had to work very hard to reach the American dreams. In the last 30 years, I worked 70 to 80 hours a week. However, I do love my work. I think I was lucky, but yet, I am constantly inventing my own luck. There is no a single moment that my brain is not thinking in overdrive - how to solve the problem at hand.

I have mentored more than a dozen young men and women in my last 35 years in the industry. They are all very sussessful and valuable contributors to our society. There is no substitute of hard work and determination, but I taught them to work smart and study wisely.

There are plenty opportunities out there. Don't wait for the government, don't work for a dead end job, find your passion. :)
 
#39 ·
"Clients (especially corporate clients) are not stupid,"
ergh, dawg, you might want to reconsider that. Corporations go bust every year, and yes, that's often from sheer stupidity.
Sending a delivery crew down to a boat that obviously hasn't been prepped or maintained? That's stupid. Sending a two man crew for an ocean crossing? That's stupid and dangerous. Sending a two man crew to a boat with no autopilot, so they will constantly be helming the boat at all times when they are on watch?
I'd call that real stupid. Pennywise, pound foolish. They're intentionally abusing you, in the name of higher profits, and they know that very well.

You know, like GM trying to use bankruptcy to dodge the ignition switch problem, after it killed how many customers? That's STUPID, criminally stupid, and I'll bet GM is a whole lot bigger than your corporate client.

Yes, working for those guys sometimes is the price of apprenticeship and getting a start, but be very careful, because they're putting your life at risk.

What would you have done, halfway across, if the wx got rough and the "no maintenance ever done" fuel tank clogged all your spare filters? Sailed, sure. Unless something else broke, or the wx and shorthanding made that a problem too.

Really, sometimes you just have to diplomatically say "No."

I wonder if their insurer would have thought a two-man crew was adequate, or asked for your CVs to consider that decision.

Glad it all worked out for you, but be very careful with those guys.
 
#40 ·
I hear you. I don't think they planned that way to cut corner and save money. It was miscommunication. The boat was not on their fleet but a recent transfer to their location from otter charter company.

It was my first gig from them. I don't think they would be too upset if I refused to set sail. But I set sail anyway to show what I (we) can do. It was my/our call, I didn't think this was dangerous, except hardship. I do routinely push my own limits under a relatively controlled environment. Knowing my own limit or breaking point is important to me because solo voyage is not too far from now. I need to get ready to sharpen my skills.

As long as we keep the boat away from the shore, the boat will be fine. We will deal with it as it comes in the storm.

I know myself, I like taking calculated risk, but I always have Plans B, C, and .... in the back of my head.

:)
 
#41 · (Edited)
I do routinely push my own limits under a relatively controlled environment. Knowing my own limit or breaking point is important to me because solo voyage is not too far from now.
You're planning to purchase a boat of your own sometime soon, then?

I hope so, for I pity the fool who would provide his own boat for someone else's first-ever singlehanded offshore passage :)

As long as we keep the boat away from the shore, the boat will be fine. We will deal with it as it comes in the storm.
Yeah, tell that to the crew of CHEEKI RAFIKI...



So, let's see if I have this straight. You thought that the reason the Jeanneau 409 was so difficult to control was the possibility that the keel had been "misaligned" by a severe grounding, right? And, most agree that the most plausible explanation for the recent loss of the keel on the Beneteau 40.7 was an unreported hard grounding while on charter...

So, your reason for assuming the boat would be "fine", in any weather, as long as it was well offshore would be WHAT, exactly?

I know myself, I like taking calculated risk, but I always have Plans B, C, and .... in the back of my head.

:)
Well, that places you in a class by yourself, no doubt... It's highly unlikely many other sailors go to sea with such contingency plans in mind...

At any rate, the few that might, it seems doubtful many work as deeply through the alphabet as you have, making it all the way to Plan M at Dawn...
 
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