SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 184 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
"Zanshin" is currently mooring off the main strip in Newport, Rhode Island. I've got to get her to Annapolis in order to get the post-Irma refit done. At the moment I've got a 57" sailboat with no mast so I am going to have to motor and since I'm alone I'll be doing the trip in steps rather than in one offshore leg. Plus I think it will be cool to go past New York City in the boat. I plan on leaving on Tuesday the 16th of July.

Without the mast I've lost my radar, but I have an autopilot and AIS transmitter/receiver and chartplotter. Although under engine the cruising speed is higher, I'll calculate 7 knots for planning purposes and will have approximately 12 hour motoring days; that gives me a rough daily plan of 84 miles with lots of time/distance to spare. I could do 100 miles as well and still have time for breakfast after the sun rises and time to watch the sunset from the anchorage.

I draw 8.5 feet and plan on either anchoring or taking guest moorings and don't really want a dock and as long as I don't run out of liquor I don't necessarily have to go ashore anywhere, either.

I realize that the tides will make a big difference approaching and passing Devil's Gate, so think it might make sense to spend a night as close as possible to that stretch and then wait for the correct state of tide the next day.

I've got the charts and a big Maptech Cruising Guide but there are so many places in the Long Island Sound to choose from that I don't know where to start.

So I'd like to hear suggestions from those who know these cruising grounds in order to let me narrow down the choices.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,776 Posts
We just did this trip
Have done it many times and keep Haleakula in a Creek next to annapolis

I think your plannng 7 knots speed is a little hopeful. I would plan on 5.5-6. This will take not account head winds, head current etc. planning 72 -80 miles a day. Prevailing winds off Jersey coast are from a southerly direction

Fisher Island East Harbor just inside Watch Hill Channel or west Harbo more crowded with snobby moorings
Port Jefferson is an easy in easy out anchorage
Port Washington is free moorings. 5 miles from the East River and Hell Gate to set yourself up for the
Currents to shoot through to NY Harbor
Atlantic Highland or Coney Island anchorage
Atlantic City next to the CG station
Cape May next to CG Station or Lewes behind the breakwater to set up for Delaware currents
Sassafras’ River - Betterton..easy in and out

Playing the currents through the East River and Delaware

East River ....don’t go at slack as tugs line up with barges. Remember the current switch advances on you From NY Bay so time so you get the whole full ride

Delaware - opposite of NY currents. Go one hour before current switches to slack. You will ride all the way through the C&D Canal.

Note: I mean to use CURRENT not tide.....they are not the same
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,216 Posts
All I can say is if you hit the stream, you may be overestimating your speed considerably. I've had up to around 8 knots of north current in the stream, though admittedly quite a bit father than you intend going.
I assume you are going offshore w/an 8.5-foot draft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,911 Posts
I have sailed back and forth from the West end of LIS to Newport many time.

1. current is a real factor. If you time your departure you can make it work for you instead of fighting it and then riding it. Look for an hrly chart of how the current works for LIS. It may be in Eldridges.

2. You can pass Fishers Island to the north or south... but on the south you encounter the strong current of the race where all the water passes in and out of the Sound. In Fisher Island Sound you have places to stop or even get repairs... Stonnington for one. North passage through the sound is well marked. Sea is more manageable for motoring in Fishers Island Sound.

3. Try to make it to Norwalk... You can anchor off the islands... go into Cove Marine a huge facility that does work on huge boats. This would be about 100 miles from Newport. You can stop earlier at the Thimbles...mooring or anchor... easy to get into and peaceful. Huntington Harbor, Cold Springs Harbor, Oyster bay are on the south of the Sound.

3a. Port Jef is an easy landfall and about 85 miles from Newport (guess). No boat yards.

4, Next leg takes you thru Hellgate. This leg has to be timed for a fair or slack tide at Hellgate.

5. Once through you can anchor or check into a number of marinas....

Then consult the Chessie guys for advice from NYC to the Chessie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
All I can say is if you hit the stream, you may be overestimating your speed considerably. I've had up to around 8 knots of north current in the stream, though admittedly quite a bit father than you intend going.
I assume you are going offshore w/an 8.5-foot draft.
Since I'm alone I'm doing day trips and not going offshore, and the Gulf Stream shouldn't be an issue in the Long Island Sound :)

Looking at the NOAA date for current within the LIS I should, at most, be seeing 1.5 knots against me. This does get stronger as I approach the New York side, but nothing like 8 knots anywhere until I get to the infamous Devil's Gate.
 

·
Learning the HARD way...
Joined
·
7,143 Posts
Nighttime stops that I had planned for a similar trip figuring 5kts on my boat with 6' draft;
1 - Pt Judith, RI 4' tidal range 25 nautical miles (will be less for you)
2 - Norwalk, CT 8' tidal range 88 nautical miles
3 - Atlantic Highlands (Sandy Hook), NJ 6' tidal range 50 nautical miles
4 - Atlantic City, NJ** 4' tidal range 81 nautical miles
5 - Cape May, NJ 7' tidal range 37 nautical miles
6 - Ocean City, Md ** 4' tidal range 38 nautical miles
7 - Great Sand Shoal Inlet 6' tidal range 70 nautical miles
8 - Norfolk, VA ** 3' tidal range 50 nautical miles
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,776 Posts
Since I'm alone I'm doing day trips and not going offshore, and the Gulf Stream shouldn't be an issue in the Long Island Sound :)

Looking at the NOAA date for current within the LIS I should, at most, be seeing 1.5 knots against me. This does get stronger as I approach the New York side, but nothing like 8 knots anywhere until I get to the infamous Devil's Gate.
Do you have Navionics or a similar program which has current vectors on the maps?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,776 Posts
Nighttime stops that I had planned for a similar trip figuring 5kts on my boat with 6' draft;
1 - Pt Judith, RI 4' tidal range 25 nautical miles (will be less for you)
2 - Norwalk, CT 8' tidal range 88 nautical miles
3 - Atlantic Highlands (Sandy Hook), NJ 6' tidal range 50 nautical miles
4 - Atlantic City, NJ** 4' tidal range 81 nautical miles
5 - Cape May, NJ 7' tidal range 37 nautical miles
6 - Ocean City, Md ** 4' tidal range 38 nautical miles
7 - Great Sand Shoal Inlet 6' tidal range 70 nautical miles
8 - Norfolk, VA ** 3' tidal range 50 nautical miles
Till you get to Cape May good suggestions to add to mine. From there to Annapolis is 109 miles and two days

Going to the southern Bay entrance is 256 miles and a few more than two days if by yourself.

If you time it right you have the current boost of up to 3 knots on the Delaware and through the C&D Canal in one felled swoop. You can easily get from Cape May to the Sassafras on the northern Chesapeake. 38 miles from Annapolis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,166 Posts
it's all about timing the currents. If you time the race right, you could push a long day and get to Port Jefferson, I think it's about 91 miles. It's an easy enough harbor to enter even at night, just keep an eye out for the Ferries. you're not going to hold a fair current through the entire sound, just get through the race as early as possible and carry that as long as you can.

From P.J. , you could go to Manhasset Bay and set yourself up for Hell Gate passage and on to the Atlantic Highlands.
Or you could do another very long day and go from Port Jeff to the AH. I've done that but it's also a long day, and the timing has to be right.

From the Atlantic Highlands, you should have enough daylight if you leave pre-dawn to get to Atlantic City. You may need to sit a day or so in the Highlands waiting for a weather window, to transit the coast.

With your depth, I'd be careful to stay in the channel in Cape May. I believe the controlling depth is 12 feet in the Canal, but double check that. You could also head for the Anchorage @ Cape Henlopen Then up the Delaware Bay and in to the Chesapeake.

I'm surprised you can't get the work you need done in Newport. I'm sure my Marina in NJ could handle just about any project. Hopefully you hit the weather right and can keep moving. i'd get some miles under my belt early. As you may be have to burn a day waiting for an optimum window to transit the Jersey Coast, and then again the Delaware Bay.

Safe Travels.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,776 Posts
it's all about timing the currents. If you time the race right, you could push a long day and get to Port Jefferson, I think it's about 91 miles. It's an easy enough harbor to enter even at night, just keep an eye out for the Ferries. you're not going to hold a fair current through the entire sound, just get through the race as early as possible and carry that as long as you can.

From P.J. , you could go to Manhasset Bay and set yourself up for Hell Gate passage and on to the Atlantic Highlands.
Or you could do another very long day and go from Port Jeff to the AH. I've done that but it's also a long day, and the timing has to be right.

From the Atlantic Highlands, you should have enough daylight if you leave pre-dawn to get to Atlantic City. You may need to sit a day or so in the Highlands waiting for a weather window, to transit the coast.

With your depth, I'd be careful to stay in the channel in Cape May. I believe the controlling depth is 12 feet in the Canal, but double check that. You could also head for the Anchorage @ Cape Henlopen Then up the Delaware Bay and in to the Chesapeake.

I'm surprised you can't get the work you need done in Newport. I'm sure my Marina in NJ could handle just about any project. Hopefully you hit the weather right and can keep moving. i'd get some miles under my belt early. As you may be have to burn a day waiting for an optimum window to transit the Jersey Coast, and then again the Delaware Bay.

Safe Travels.
I doubt he can do the Cape May Canal as there is a 53 ft bridge. I barely make it under by a foot.

If I remember right when he found Zanshin it was in Annapolis. I think it was at the boat show. I can understand wanting to take a boat for a huge refit back there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,911 Posts
I didn't consult the tide tables so...as noted above... current is usually an important consideration. If it doesn't matter to you at what time you do your 100 mile passage... definitely get out the current charts and select your departure based on the fair or slack at key location. If you motor for 12+ hours you will have both a fair and foul current going down the sound. What you can with the fair current you lose with the foul current. 12 hrs at average 7 knots should give you a passage of in the 90+ mile range.

You want to end the run with a decent harbor to anchor in... easy to get in and out with a decent bottom.. or available moorings.

A good approach may be to plan the passage with the most challenging run - Hellgate... work out how far to anchor from it to start the run and where you will anchor on the south side. Then the passages down the Sound from Newport can be worked out and where you will anchor and when you will depart. Sometimes it pays to wait for fair current because going against can be a waste of time. If you have the luxury of using the currents... by all means do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,645 Posts
Current is more of an issue on the eastern Sound. Much less as you get to the Western half. Two easy in and out spots to anchor on the CT side are Duck Island near Westbrook and Charles Island near Milford.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,776 Posts
He doesn't have a mast. :)
YEP that rightght:2 boat::|
His draft is ok except where you get to the ferries it shoals there from them kicking up the mud backing out. He’d have to go right behind them
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,166 Posts
This is a good week to Hit the Race going west. Or if you prefer, the Watch Hill Passage, The turn to the Northwest tomorrow ( Monday) is 5:48 a.m. and then roughly 48 minutes later, every day thereafter. So hitting it early should give you good daylight to make westward progress. This is a good week to go, if you're ready.

It's not a bad week to hit Hell Gate either. as the Current turns to the Southwest in the gate on Tuesday @ 10:30 in the morning. Increasing in time by about 45 minutes each day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,166 Posts
https://www.offshoreblue.com/cruising/east-river-timing.php

Here's a guide to Timing your passage through Hell Gate. The author gives examples of timing the gate for slack current or full flow.

It's a 15 mile passage through the east river, So let's say 2 hours @ 7 + kn. Just to round things off.

A consideration going south though, is you'd want to try to carry a fair current as long as possible to get you through the Narrows as well. So, while you can catch an Ebb in the East River at the tail end to get through the East River, you'd eventually start to hit the flood at the narrows. So catching the Turn early will help push you south all the way to Sandy Hook and the Atlantic Highlands.

As Chef pointed out, the big boats do try to hit the Gate at Slack, but you'll see them coming from astern as you approach and can adjust your speed to let them pass if necessary. You can go through the Channel between the Brother Islands, but the big ships go around, so look over your starboard shoulder when you clear the islands to see if anyone is coming around behind you from the other side of North Brother. ( Once, home to Typhoid Mary)

Also, and this is important. You want to leave Roosevelt Island to Port. And just check the Local Notice to Mariners in case there's any closings. ( usually not until Sept. though) I'll take a look.

In the Atlantic Highlands you can Anchor behind the Breakwater after the last row of moored boats. The water on the Wall side is deeper. There's a sand bar on the shore side that dries at low tide ( around 5' tide) so be careful if you choose that side. A power boat found himself grounded there for hours on the 4th of July. ( It's doable though) You can catch a launch ride for $25/day or dinghy in from the anchorage. You can also fuel up there and take on ice, water and provisions if necessary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,166 Posts
So Tuesday, the 16th the Current at the Race turns to the Northwest ( what you want) @ 6:36 a.m. The Watch Hill Passage if you choose that route Turns 30 minutes earlier than the Race. ( so 6 a.m or so.) It's roughly 30 miles to Watch Hill from Newport area, so you'd be leaving pre-dawn to catch the turn. Obviously the current runs for 6 hours so, you can still ride it in later, it just means you'll be bucking current earlier. Either way, you won't carry a fair current the whole time in the sound on a 12 hour day. Just get through the Race with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for all the great suggestions and advice!

I think I'll plan my first day, July 17th, to be either the anchorage at Fisher's Island for a very short first day out or if my speed is good and conditions propitious I'll continue and go to somewhere around Guilford, CT. The anchorage there at Joshua Cove looks acceptable. If conditions are better than expected then I should be able to continue on to Branford or East Haven Morris Cove. The research that tempest did on the state of the current was really helpful, I thought I might go north of Fisher's Island but we've got a full moon so the current at the races might really help me more than expected

If I make it far on the first day, then the second day will see me getting to an anchorage as close as possible to Hell Gate so that I can make the next day's transit through there, otherwise if my first day is short then I'll make a more leisurely trip down the Long Island Sound and overnight at Port Jefferson.

Since I've got a data connection via phone, I'll update this thread with my anchorage position and perhaps post my planning for the next day for comment and suggestions here. I'm so used to deep water and Caribbean tides that the skinny water here plus the tidal range make for an interesting trip. Although I did my offshore license and spent days with charts and tide tables and rulers to draw out the passage vectors, this will be the first time that I'll actually have to use that schoolbook knowledge.

It turns out that my big chartplotter probably didn't survive hurricane Irma unscathed after all. I'd initially only turned it one to see if it works and the screen had lit up, but last night when I went to see if it had the tide tables or if I could activate the current vectors the darned thing didn't want to work.

But I have 2 handheld Garmin GPSs plus I've downloaded OpenCPN with charts to a tablet that so far has only been on board for me to play Angry Birds with or to use the Star chart app, where you point the tablet at the night sky and it identifies stars, planets, constellations and even satellites.

Luckily I've still got my protractor, pencil and eraser, rules, dividers and paper charts as a backup to the nifty electronics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,166 Posts
Sounds like a plan. It looks as the weather may deteriorate as the week goes on. ( though, I find them to be a little alarmist these days) Still, I might try to get as deep in to the sound toward the East River ( west) as I can while the weather is good. If anything holds you up, it will be waiting for a window to transit the Jersey Coast, and the Delaware Bay. Allow time for that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I called up a local dive operation to get the bottom cleaned a while back as I've been sitting here without moving for a month and I don't know if the Caribbean bottom paint is up to withstanding the creatures here in New England. It was pretty impressive, as I hung up the phone the first little dive dinghy was just arriving, and now I have 3 dinghies with compressors and 4 divers working below the waterline to clean up the bottom so that I can do a faster passage down to Annapolis. I also finally put the speed transducer in (I hate doing that, since despite the check-valve it always makes a mess in that bilge compartment) and last night I made sure that all my navigation lights were working. They were corroded but I fixed them, except for the steaming light which is missing.
 
1 - 20 of 184 Posts
Top